Comments on: The Enemy of My Enemy is??? http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/11/the_enemy_of_my/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: ali eteraz http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/11/the_enemy_of_my/comment-page-2/#comment-150049 ali eteraz Sat, 14 Jul 2007 19:05:39 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4569#comment-150049 <p>circus, gladly:</p> <p>"honor" which posits that a woman can be retaliated upon for her behavior is a form of masculine-insecurity, in which the woman is the proxy through which a man relates to other men in world.</p> <p>i.e. if your sister sleeps with another man, an "honor" position essentially argues that (because of her) you have slept with another man.</p> <p>if that is not patriarchy -- men imputing the power to speak for women -- then I don't know what is.</p> <p>honor is a tool. patriarchy is the vice. let's not confuse the two.</p> <p>word.</p> circus, gladly:

“honor” which posits that a woman can be retaliated upon for her behavior is a form of masculine-insecurity, in which the woman is the proxy through which a man relates to other men in world.

i.e. if your sister sleeps with another man, an “honor” position essentially argues that (because of her) you have slept with another man.

if that is not patriarchy — men imputing the power to speak for women — then I don’t know what is.

honor is a tool. patriarchy is the vice. let’s not confuse the two.

word.

]]> By: circus in jungle http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/11/the_enemy_of_my/comment-page-2/#comment-150035 circus in jungle Sat, 14 Jul 2007 17:27:15 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4569#comment-150035 <blockquote>"honor killings" which aren't an "honor" problem at all; they are a patriarchy problem</blockquote> <p>Can you please explain how they are a patriarchy problem and not 'honor' problem?</p> “honor killings” which aren’t an “honor” problem at all; they are a patriarchy problem

Can you please explain how they are a patriarchy problem and not ‘honor’ problem?

]]> By: ali eteraz http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/11/the_enemy_of_my/comment-page-2/#comment-150025 ali eteraz Sat, 14 Jul 2007 12:31:57 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4569#comment-150025 <p>this post was doing so well till that daniel pipes inspired honor/shame "insight" - dude, have you not gone to india? tell me "shame" or "honor" don't exist there. china? same thing. its a meaningless dichotomy which is applied to Arabs b/c it promotes Otherization. The link you go to starts by evaluating "honor killings" which aren't an "honor" problem at all; they are a patriarchy problem. methinks thou hast been consuming too much right-wing verbiage, herbivore.</p> this post was doing so well till that daniel pipes inspired honor/shame “insight” – dude, have you not gone to india? tell me “shame” or “honor” don’t exist there. china? same thing. its a meaningless dichotomy which is applied to Arabs b/c it promotes Otherization. The link you go to starts by evaluating “honor killings” which aren’t an “honor” problem at all; they are a patriarchy problem. methinks thou hast been consuming too much right-wing verbiage, herbivore.

]]> By: yeti http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/11/the_enemy_of_my/comment-page-2/#comment-149903 yeti Fri, 13 Jul 2007 19:35:06 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4569#comment-149903 <p>i guess it's a trichotomy, including "us".</p> i guess it’s a trichotomy, including “us”.

]]> By: yeti http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/11/the_enemy_of_my/comment-page-2/#comment-149902 yeti Fri, 13 Jul 2007 19:33:28 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4569#comment-149902 <blockquote>If his umpteen missteps have brought us to the verge of actively “regime changing” him (a great read, BTW!), then perhaps this latest diatribe from the <b>Hitler of our time</b> (no, not Bush, sheesh) wins Mushie back a few more points -</blockquote> <p>Ummm, "Hitler of our time"? Joke? Tongue-in-cheek? I hope so. Pretty ridiculous comparison even in jest.</p> <p>I think that the utter instability of any kind of democratic government in Pakistan is directly related to "Islamist" groups gaining and maintaining power... by setting up this dichotomy between "enemy" and "enemy of my enemy" we're missing some perspective.</p> If his umpteen missteps have brought us to the verge of actively “regime changing” him (a great read, BTW!), then perhaps this latest diatribe from the Hitler of our time (no, not Bush, sheesh) wins Mushie back a few more points -

Ummm, “Hitler of our time”? Joke? Tongue-in-cheek? I hope so. Pretty ridiculous comparison even in jest.

I think that the utter instability of any kind of democratic government in Pakistan is directly related to “Islamist” groups gaining and maintaining power… by setting up this dichotomy between “enemy” and “enemy of my enemy” we’re missing some perspective.

]]> By: louiecypher http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/11/the_enemy_of_my/comment-page-2/#comment-149848 louiecypher Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:20:48 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4569#comment-149848 <p>Faraz: I think it's because Americans believe that democracy is the best, regardless of how undeveloped a country's civil institutions are. Never mind that in many cases (e.g. emancipation of slaves in US, civil rights in 1960s) the morally right thing would have never been done if it were up to a popular mandate. While as an Indian I don't feel as enthusiastic about Musharaff as you do, I do feel it is easier to negotiate with the people in charge, which in Pakistan has always been the military, instead of pretending that the power emanates from some elected civilian like Benazir Bhutto</p> Faraz: I think it’s because Americans believe that democracy is the best, regardless of how undeveloped a country’s civil institutions are. Never mind that in many cases (e.g. emancipation of slaves in US, civil rights in 1960s) the morally right thing would have never been done if it were up to a popular mandate. While as an Indian I don’t feel as enthusiastic about Musharaff as you do, I do feel it is easier to negotiate with the people in charge, which in Pakistan has always been the military, instead of pretending that the power emanates from some elected civilian like Benazir Bhutto

]]> By: Faraz H LalDin http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/11/the_enemy_of_my/comment-page-2/#comment-149789 Faraz H LalDin Fri, 13 Jul 2007 08:24:01 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4569#comment-149789 <p>Musharraf is the best thing that has happened to Pakistan. He has opened up the media, 10 year ago there was only state run channels. Now there is a multitude of channels. The censorship laws have been relaxed tremendously. He has saved the economy through good management which we have not had in Pakistan for nearly 15 years! He even tried to get rid of the arbitrary blasphemy law. He is a moderate modern ruler who wants to improve Pakistan. What I don't understand is why people in the west are so critical of him?</p> <p>Yes of course maybe he does exaggerate the extremist threat but what politician is totally clean? He's certainly not an angel, I know that. But he is by FAR the best that Pakistan has to offer. May god keep him in power for another 20 years.</p> Musharraf is the best thing that has happened to Pakistan. He has opened up the media, 10 year ago there was only state run channels. Now there is a multitude of channels. The censorship laws have been relaxed tremendously. He has saved the economy through good management which we have not had in Pakistan for nearly 15 years! He even tried to get rid of the arbitrary blasphemy law. He is a moderate modern ruler who wants to improve Pakistan. What I don’t understand is why people in the west are so critical of him?

Yes of course maybe he does exaggerate the extremist threat but what politician is totally clean? He’s certainly not an angel, I know that. But he is by FAR the best that Pakistan has to offer. May god keep him in power for another 20 years.

]]> By: KarmaByte http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/11/the_enemy_of_my/comment-page-2/#comment-149692 KarmaByte Fri, 13 Jul 2007 04:15:02 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4569#comment-149692 <blockquote>No comparison at all. The Hindutva crowd are much better organizers and politicians, more popular amongst their own community, and better at only killing members of other religious communities. Islamists are generally unpopular, have to rely on bombs because they can't organize popular (and police-supported) killing sprees like the Sangh Pariwar, have never managed anything like gaining elected control of the world's largest democracy, and <b>focus the majority of their time and attention on killing members of their own religion</b>.</blockquote> <p>Wow, thats some desperate attempt to turn the tables.</p> No comparison at all. The Hindutva crowd are much better organizers and politicians, more popular amongst their own community, and better at only killing members of other religious communities. Islamists are generally unpopular, have to rely on bombs because they can’t organize popular (and police-supported) killing sprees like the Sangh Pariwar, have never managed anything like gaining elected control of the world’s largest democracy, and focus the majority of their time and attention on killing members of their own religion.

Wow, thats some desperate attempt to turn the tables.

]]> By: ag http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/11/the_enemy_of_my/comment-page-2/#comment-149690 ag Fri, 13 Jul 2007 04:10:10 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4569#comment-149690 <p>"And vicious as the RSS and the Hindutva crowd can be, would you really compare them with the hardest of the hardline Muslims?"</p> <p>No comparison at all. The Hindutva crowd are much better organizers and politicians, more popular amongst their own community, and better at only killing members of other religious communities. Islamists are generally unpopular, have to rely on bombs because they can't organize popular (and police-supported) killing sprees like the Sangh Pariwar, have never managed anything like gaining elected control of the world's largest democracy, and focus the majority of their time and attention on killing members of their own religion.</p> “And vicious as the RSS and the Hindutva crowd can be, would you really compare them with the hardest of the hardline Muslims?”

No comparison at all. The Hindutva crowd are much better organizers and politicians, more popular amongst their own community, and better at only killing members of other religious communities. Islamists are generally unpopular, have to rely on bombs because they can’t organize popular (and police-supported) killing sprees like the Sangh Pariwar, have never managed anything like gaining elected control of the world’s largest democracy, and focus the majority of their time and attention on killing members of their own religion.

]]> By: KarmaByte http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/11/the_enemy_of_my/comment-page-2/#comment-149416 KarmaByte Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:03:05 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4569#comment-149416 <p>The enemy of my enemy is my friend as long my enemy is in the equation and after that the equation has to be re-written. Maybe now the enemy of my enemy is my new enemy and my old enemy now is the now the enemy of my new enemy and therefore now my friend. phew! Wait a minute, who is my enemy again?</p> The enemy of my enemy is my friend as long my enemy is in the equation and after that the equation has to be re-written. Maybe now the enemy of my enemy is my new enemy and my old enemy now is the now the enemy of my new enemy and therefore now my friend. phew! Wait a minute, who is my enemy again?

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