Comments on: Enter South Asians for Hillary http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/06/26/enter_south_asi/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: ak http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/06/26/enter_south_asi/comment-page-1/#comment-147161 ak Mon, 02 Jul 2007 19:10:42 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4530#comment-147161 <p>the roundtable on yesterday's meet the press was about the obama vs hillary issue. apparently, one poll shows that she is the only candidate that a majority of voters would categorically not vote for (52%). on the other hand, it is early days and she seems to have a small amount of successes (e.g. trumped BO at a debate at howard university on thursday). i personally don't like her, but i don't doubt that she would be more than competent as a president. still, i find it interesting that there is such a knee-jerk reaction against her, often without a clear indication of the reason(s), as salil pointed out.</p> the roundtable on yesterday’s meet the press was about the obama vs hillary issue. apparently, one poll shows that she is the only candidate that a majority of voters would categorically not vote for (52%). on the other hand, it is early days and she seems to have a small amount of successes (e.g. trumped BO at a debate at howard university on thursday). i personally don’t like her, but i don’t doubt that she would be more than competent as a president. still, i find it interesting that there is such a knee-jerk reaction against her, often without a clear indication of the reason(s), as salil pointed out.

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By: Pravin http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/06/26/enter_south_asi/comment-page-1/#comment-147146 Pravin Mon, 02 Jul 2007 17:02:07 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4530#comment-147146 <p>How did she show support for the Asian American community when she went along with a war and showed no remorse or ability to recognize mistakes until she was in campaign mode? The same war where Asian and Indian Americans have been sent for no real reason. The same war that takes away resources that can be used to better all Americans including South Asian Americans. I do not see her support for our community mainly in her ability to play for pay when it comes to Indian interests or her fondness for some Indian food.</p> <p>She is not a leader. SHe just does whatever is politically convenient.</p> <p>I too would rather vote for Ron Paul or Gore or Clark than this woman. Unfortunately, none of them are realistic choices at this point for different reasons.</p> How did she show support for the Asian American community when she went along with a war and showed no remorse or ability to recognize mistakes until she was in campaign mode? The same war where Asian and Indian Americans have been sent for no real reason. The same war that takes away resources that can be used to better all Americans including South Asian Americans. I do not see her support for our community mainly in her ability to play for pay when it comes to Indian interests or her fondness for some Indian food.

She is not a leader. SHe just does whatever is politically convenient.

I too would rather vote for Ron Paul or Gore or Clark than this woman. Unfortunately, none of them are realistic choices at this point for different reasons.

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By: HyperTree http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/06/26/enter_south_asi/comment-page-1/#comment-146654 HyperTree Thu, 28 Jun 2007 17:43:20 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4530#comment-146654 <p>Salil, that was an interesting comment. In part, because the tendency you describe as irking you is also the tendency which unites democrats. A democrat or liberal is at heart a feudal animal. He or she wants a leader who can tell him what to do, and to control his life and the lives of others. This in turn requires the leader to have an "emotional" resonance, and to have your gut tell you he is trustworthy.</p> <p>The same feudal tendency also exists in socially conservative christians.</p> <p>The same biographies which Shankar glowingly quotes also mention that Hillary is exceedingly self-righteous. This might make democrats drool, but it should give sensible people pause -- the worst excesses are created by self-righteous "messiahs". All these years of George Bush and still people don't learn their lesson.</p> Salil, that was an interesting comment. In part, because the tendency you describe as irking you is also the tendency which unites democrats. A democrat or liberal is at heart a feudal animal. He or she wants a leader who can tell him what to do, and to control his life and the lives of others. This in turn requires the leader to have an “emotional” resonance, and to have your gut tell you he is trustworthy.

The same feudal tendency also exists in socially conservative christians.

The same biographies which Shankar glowingly quotes also mention that Hillary is exceedingly self-righteous. This might make democrats drool, but it should give sensible people pause — the worst excesses are created by self-righteous “messiahs”. All these years of George Bush and still people don’t learn their lesson.

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By: Nada http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/06/26/enter_south_asi/comment-page-1/#comment-146618 Nada Thu, 28 Jun 2007 01:50:56 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4530#comment-146618 <p>The Ron Paul racism rumors are bogus. the words were written by an aide 20 years ago who he fired immediately.</p> <p>I am voting for Ron Paul. He will end the war in Iraq and STOP the coming war with Iran. And he will return the US to the treasure that made it great, namely our Constitution.</p> The Ron Paul racism rumors are bogus. the words were written by an aide 20 years ago who he fired immediately.

I am voting for Ron Paul. He will end the war in Iraq and STOP the coming war with Iran. And he will return the US to the treasure that made it great, namely our Constitution.

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By: vkj http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/06/26/enter_south_asi/comment-page-1/#comment-146600 vkj Wed, 27 Jun 2007 23:06:54 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4530#comment-146600 <p>Michael Bloomberg. He is the moderate, sensible, least political of the choices. I think he would have a better grasp on fixing the economy, taking on tough issues such as healthcare, SS, and immigration. I generaly like Hillary and Obama, but they appear to be just to political and are both trying to shape themselves and their personalities into what their campaigns think would attract the best demographics. I was sincerly saddened by Obama south asian blunder.</p> <p>Bloomberg'08 - when was the last time we had a politician who had no need to pander to special interest or beholden to campaign donors</p> Michael Bloomberg. He is the moderate, sensible, least political of the choices. I think he would have a better grasp on fixing the economy, taking on tough issues such as healthcare, SS, and immigration. I generaly like Hillary and Obama, but they appear to be just to political and are both trying to shape themselves and their personalities into what their campaigns think would attract the best demographics. I was sincerly saddened by Obama south asian blunder.

Bloomberg’08 – when was the last time we had a politician who had no need to pander to special interest or beholden to campaign donors

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By: Sandeep http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/06/26/enter_south_asi/comment-page-1/#comment-146586 Sandeep Wed, 27 Jun 2007 21:27:58 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4530#comment-146586 <p>Mitt Romney -- I don't like his politics but I think that he's best suited to economically lead America. This country may need a dollar and sense President right now more than anything else. I don't think he cares enough about anything else to be divisive, clannish, crooked or seperatist. Unlike his dad, he certainly has never been 'brainwashed', by neocons or by dems. If he runs with a sensible VP with a large heart -- may not be so bad. Of course I will join any group that will chant for Gore to run. That would really make America a country worth living in and defending when I travel abroad.</p> Mitt Romney — I don’t like his politics but I think that he’s best suited to economically lead America. This country may need a dollar and sense President right now more than anything else. I don’t think he cares enough about anything else to be divisive, clannish, crooked or seperatist. Unlike his dad, he certainly has never been ‘brainwashed’, by neocons or by dems. If he runs with a sensible VP with a large heart — may not be so bad. Of course I will join any group that will chant for Gore to run. That would really make America a country worth living in and defending when I travel abroad.

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By: Vikram http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/06/26/enter_south_asi/comment-page-1/#comment-146580 Vikram Wed, 27 Jun 2007 21:14:29 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4530#comment-146580 <blockquote> Clinton is unusual in that she seems, above all, to have sacrificed herself. </blockquote> <p>Not in all cases... I doubt her support for Bill would extend to the point where it would really hurt her politically :</p> <blockquote> Hillary Rodham Clinton, distancing herself from a politically controversial action by her husband, said yesterday that she opposes the release from prison or other forms of clemency for 16 members of a Puerto Rican terrorist group that was involved in more than 100 bombings in this country at least 15 years ago. When President Clinton announced a clemency offer on Aug. 11, it had strong support from human rights leaders and was widely seen as boosting Hillary Clinton's standing among New York's Hispanic voters in her expected campaign for the Senate next year. But a backlash quickly developed against the offer from senior law enforcement officials and leading New York politicians. <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/keyraces2000/stories/hillary090599.htm">Washington Post, 9/5/1999</a> </blockquote> Clinton is unusual in that she seems, above all, to have sacrificed herself.

Not in all cases… I doubt her support for Bill would extend to the point where it would really hurt her politically :

Hillary Rodham Clinton, distancing herself from a politically controversial action by her husband, said yesterday that she opposes the release from prison or other forms of clemency for 16 members of a Puerto Rican terrorist group that was involved in more than 100 bombings in this country at least 15 years ago. When President Clinton announced a clemency offer on Aug. 11, it had strong support from human rights leaders and was widely seen as boosting Hillary Clinton’s standing among New York’s Hispanic voters in her expected campaign for the Senate next year. But a backlash quickly developed against the offer from senior law enforcement officials and leading New York politicians. Washington Post, 9/5/1999
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By: Shankar http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/06/26/enter_south_asi/comment-page-1/#comment-146562 Shankar Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:04:46 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4530#comment-146562 <p>Senators have to take stands -- and vote -- on so many issues that it can be difficult for them to make a serious run for Presidency. Hillary has taken stands various stands as a Senator. She is now doing her best to walk the tightrope between her job as a senator and her aspirations as a candidate. From the <a href="http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2007/06/11/070611crbo_books_kolbert?currentPage=4">New Yorker</a> (this is a review of a couple of biographies of Hillary) :</p> <p><i>I covered Mrs. Clinton sporadically from the day she began her first campaign for the Senate, on Daniel Patrick Moynihan's farm, through her early years in office. In that period, I saw her in dozens of settings working the state fairgrounds in Syracuse, nodding attentively during her listening tour, chatting with aides in Washington, signing books in Westchester County, taking a call from her husband on her cell phone. I also interviewed her a few times. When the subject was policy, she was always smart and engaged; when the topic was personal, it was like talking to someone through several layers of Plexiglas. Of course, I was trying to get at the "real Hillary". (In the interest of full disclosure, I never even came close.)</i></p> <p><i>History is full of politicians who have sacrificed other people to their ambitions. A willingness to do so might even be called a precondition of power. <b>Clinton is unusual in that she seems, above all, to have sacrificed herself. Whether you follow her around for months or just read a book about her, you can't help admiring her extraordinary discipline. </b>When her husband was accused of creating a slush fund to manage his extramarital affairs, she organized a legal team to protect him - that's the kind of person she is. (Bernstein reports that, in 1990, the team interviewed five women, in one case with Hillary in the room, to obtain statements from them that they had never had sex with Bill.) In January, 2000, I accompanied Clinton on a campaign swing through western New York. The first morning began with what was expected to be a friendly radio interview. Instead, the host asked Clinton whether she had ever slept with Vince Foster. No matter what else she did or said that day, it was clear that this story was going to dominate the news cycle. Her press secretary looked as if he wanted to vomit. But Clinton managed to smile and shake hands through the next ten hours of campaign events, as if the whole incident had never happened.</i></p> <p>I think Hillary has done a fine job in helping maintain a focus on the foremost issues. (As a matter of comparison : Mike Huckabee is currently on the job of explaining why he believes in Creationism and not evolution).</p> Senators have to take stands — and vote — on so many issues that it can be difficult for them to make a serious run for Presidency. Hillary has taken stands various stands as a Senator. She is now doing her best to walk the tightrope between her job as a senator and her aspirations as a candidate. From the New Yorker (this is a review of a couple of biographies of Hillary) :

I covered Mrs. Clinton sporadically from the day she began her first campaign for the Senate, on Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s farm, through her early years in office. In that period, I saw her in dozens of settings working the state fairgrounds in Syracuse, nodding attentively during her listening tour, chatting with aides in Washington, signing books in Westchester County, taking a call from her husband on her cell phone. I also interviewed her a few times. When the subject was policy, she was always smart and engaged; when the topic was personal, it was like talking to someone through several layers of Plexiglas. Of course, I was trying to get at the “real Hillary”. (In the interest of full disclosure, I never even came close.)

History is full of politicians who have sacrificed other people to their ambitions. A willingness to do so might even be called a precondition of power. Clinton is unusual in that she seems, above all, to have sacrificed herself. Whether you follow her around for months or just read a book about her, you can’t help admiring her extraordinary discipline. When her husband was accused of creating a slush fund to manage his extramarital affairs, she organized a legal team to protect him – that’s the kind of person she is. (Bernstein reports that, in 1990, the team interviewed five women, in one case with Hillary in the room, to obtain statements from them that they had never had sex with Bill.) In January, 2000, I accompanied Clinton on a campaign swing through western New York. The first morning began with what was expected to be a friendly radio interview. Instead, the host asked Clinton whether she had ever slept with Vince Foster. No matter what else she did or said that day, it was clear that this story was going to dominate the news cycle. Her press secretary looked as if he wanted to vomit. But Clinton managed to smile and shake hands through the next ten hours of campaign events, as if the whole incident had never happened.

I think Hillary has done a fine job in helping maintain a focus on the foremost issues. (As a matter of comparison : Mike Huckabee is currently on the job of explaining why he believes in Creationism and not evolution).

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By: Salil Maniktahla http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/06/26/enter_south_asi/comment-page-1/#comment-146559 Salil Maniktahla Wed, 27 Jun 2007 18:24:19 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4530#comment-146559 <p>Yesterday I was at lunch with several coworkers, and our discussion turned heated when we ventured into politics, and specifically into feelings about Hillary. Of course, all this is anecdotal, and so can easily be discounted. But I still think it's demonstrative of how people feel, outside the brown circles.</p> <p>Consensus at the table was that Hillary would be a very divisive candidate, at least initially, were she to secure the party nomination. And if she was to become President, the deep rifts that have formed between Republicans and Democrats will only get deeper.</p> <p>Various people at the table, including some liberals, described Hillary as "a bitch" and as "untrustworthy." When I pressed them on what specifically made her untrustworthy in their opinion, two people described it as "a gut feeling" or "a feeling you get when you look at her, and her expressions."</p> <p>I pointed out that the Bush campaigns in 2000 and 2004 ran largely on themes of trust and values, and that for many years a great many people claimed that Bush was "trustworthy," and would be the sort of leader a person could "trust," and that the reality of the administration's policies was not borne out by the impressions given by the campaign. My specific retort was that imagery and wording play strongly on emotions, and that an image can be manipulated, so it's best not to <b>trust</b> that.</p> <p>I think my point was lost on several people at the table. It just confirms my belief that understanding policy decisions, a candidate's voting record (if applicable), and the nuances in their rhetoric are not strong on the American voter's priority list.</p> <p>I find it deplorable that a candidate must be painted with such a broad brush, and that politics (like almost everything else in America lately) has become more about entertainment than about understanding.</p> <p>I do think Hillary would make a fine President. I also think Obama would, too, and he'd also be less divisive (can you believe it!? Well, you can't say progress isn't being made in some fashion, right?).</p> <p>I am mostly unimpressed with the Republican candidates so far. Fred Thomspson has a generally "likeable" persona, and I like his character on "Law and Order." But that doesn't mean I think he's going to make a great President. The jury's out on him, mainly due to a lack of information. Giuliani is a mess; I don't think his campaign is going to weather the storm well enough to garner the party nomination. And Mitt Romney...I dunno. I'm impressed with his work on the Salt Lake City Olympic committee, but I don't really get his pro-life / abortion rights waffling. Similarly, he's really mealy-mouthed when it comes to same-sex equality issues. I suspect that his personal ideals are frequently at odds with his party platform, and that he will toe the line.</p> Yesterday I was at lunch with several coworkers, and our discussion turned heated when we ventured into politics, and specifically into feelings about Hillary. Of course, all this is anecdotal, and so can easily be discounted. But I still think it’s demonstrative of how people feel, outside the brown circles.

Consensus at the table was that Hillary would be a very divisive candidate, at least initially, were she to secure the party nomination. And if she was to become President, the deep rifts that have formed between Republicans and Democrats will only get deeper.

Various people at the table, including some liberals, described Hillary as “a bitch” and as “untrustworthy.” When I pressed them on what specifically made her untrustworthy in their opinion, two people described it as “a gut feeling” or “a feeling you get when you look at her, and her expressions.”

I pointed out that the Bush campaigns in 2000 and 2004 ran largely on themes of trust and values, and that for many years a great many people claimed that Bush was “trustworthy,” and would be the sort of leader a person could “trust,” and that the reality of the administration’s policies was not borne out by the impressions given by the campaign. My specific retort was that imagery and wording play strongly on emotions, and that an image can be manipulated, so it’s best not to trust that.

I think my point was lost on several people at the table. It just confirms my belief that understanding policy decisions, a candidate’s voting record (if applicable), and the nuances in their rhetoric are not strong on the American voter’s priority list.

I find it deplorable that a candidate must be painted with such a broad brush, and that politics (like almost everything else in America lately) has become more about entertainment than about understanding.

I do think Hillary would make a fine President. I also think Obama would, too, and he’d also be less divisive (can you believe it!? Well, you can’t say progress isn’t being made in some fashion, right?).

I am mostly unimpressed with the Republican candidates so far. Fred Thomspson has a generally “likeable” persona, and I like his character on “Law and Order.” But that doesn’t mean I think he’s going to make a great President. The jury’s out on him, mainly due to a lack of information. Giuliani is a mess; I don’t think his campaign is going to weather the storm well enough to garner the party nomination. And Mitt Romney…I dunno. I’m impressed with his work on the Salt Lake City Olympic committee, but I don’t really get his pro-life / abortion rights waffling. Similarly, he’s really mealy-mouthed when it comes to same-sex equality issues. I suspect that his personal ideals are frequently at odds with his party platform, and that he will toe the line.

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By: Shankar http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/06/26/enter_south_asi/comment-page-1/#comment-146558 Shankar Wed, 27 Jun 2007 18:21:44 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4530#comment-146558 <p>Here is the complete <a href="http://www.iacfpa.org/p_news/nit/2004/jan/16/usa8-apology.shtml">quote</a> from Hillary :<i> “I want to end with her (Farmer's) favorite quote, because I love this quote, from Mahatma Gandhi ---- who ran a gas station down in St. Louis for a couple of years. Mr. Gandhi ---- (pointing to someone in the audience) Do you still go down to the gas station? A lot of wisdom comes out of that gas station. Mahatma Gandhi, one of the great leaders of the 20th century, said ‘First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you and then you win. So let me bring you someone who will fight and win ---- Nancy Farmer.</i></p> <p>Since then she has apologized : <i>Since then she has made a public apology which has been aired on television several times and an Associated Press story has been carried in several newspapers in the U.S. and India. On what appeared on CNN, she said: “It was a lame attempt at a joke. It was a dumb thing to say and I am sincerely sorry. I have only the highest regard for Mahatma Gandhi, and have been a longtime admirer of his life and work. I consider him one of the great leaders of the 20th century.</i></p> <p>Alright, so in regards to Hillary Clinton's foreign and economic policy goals vis-a-vis India : Mahatma Gandhi, gas station, Gandhi, gas station, Saint Louis, gas station, Mahatma Gandhi. Now, we can move on.</p> Here is the complete quote from Hillary : “I want to end with her (Farmer’s) favorite quote, because I love this quote, from Mahatma Gandhi —- who ran a gas station down in St. Louis for a couple of years. Mr. Gandhi —- (pointing to someone in the audience) Do you still go down to the gas station? A lot of wisdom comes out of that gas station. Mahatma Gandhi, one of the great leaders of the 20th century, said ‘First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you and then you win. So let me bring you someone who will fight and win —- Nancy Farmer.

Since then she has apologized : Since then she has made a public apology which has been aired on television several times and an Associated Press story has been carried in several newspapers in the U.S. and India. On what appeared on CNN, she said: “It was a lame attempt at a joke. It was a dumb thing to say and I am sincerely sorry. I have only the highest regard for Mahatma Gandhi, and have been a longtime admirer of his life and work. I consider him one of the great leaders of the 20th century.

Alright, so in regards to Hillary Clinton’s foreign and economic policy goals vis-a-vis India : Mahatma Gandhi, gas station, Gandhi, gas station, Saint Louis, gas station, Mahatma Gandhi. Now, we can move on.

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