By the way, the quote I provided, was made by macolm before his trip overseas, and subsequent “transformation” The point is, it’s not as cut and dry as you say.

Both are not mutually exclusive. Malcolm did indeed comment about how “whites first called MLK a socialist, anti-American, etc.. then when Malcolm X came along, they thanked god they had a MLK” Such comments were tongue in cheek, but certainly did contain a huge amount of truth in where Malcolm saw the civil rights struggle going. As for the ‘transformation’ you speak of, Malcolm never, ever once denied the existence, and of a black identity, he only believed that it should extend beyond the US. After visiting african heads of states and hearing what he felt were lies being fed to them via the US state department, he urged blacks in the US and blacks/browns/nonwhites outside the US to unify. In this way, he was a universalist.

ONe of his most famous quotes: “Whites can help us, but they can’t join us. We cannot think of uniting with others, unless we first unite with ourselves” He didn’t turn into a “everyone is equal whopee!” type person. He recognized past difference and injustice caused schisms that existed clearly in the present.

y’know, so did malcolm. my impression is many blacks are perfectly comfortable speaking about this…they just don’t want whites listening.

Please. Absolutely disingenuous. Malcolm’s statements are always in the context of it being in a white driven society. Even as he formed the OAAU (post dating his trip to Mecca and transformation), he addressed this point: “Where the really sincere white people have got to do their proving of themselves is not among the black victims, but out on the battle lines of where America’s racism really is – and that’s in their own home communities ; America’s racism is among their own fellow whites. That’s where sincere whites who really mean to accomplish something have got to work”

In fact, it was only after being in Africa and the Arab world he realized that it was white American society that caused whites to act that way, not any inherent biological flaw. There isn’t even a hint of it being “inherent” to the black people, Dsouza et all, are have this insintuation replete in their statements.

Also, I don’t know where a conversation can begin when someone is an apologist for D’Souza’s work. He’s short on empirical information and long on the vitriol, particularly when it comes to pandering into the model minority myth and playing up the denigration of African Americans in the U.S.

i haven’t heard this but i don’t doubt it exists or that people think this way. as i said, i think the new racism–the politcs of authenticity–often intersects with the traditional kind.

has no one ever’coded’ you yourself as ‘white’ becuase you are successful?

actually, i’ve been coded white by indians for been lazy, unstudious, decadent, and unconventional.

i think the quote in 82 speak for itself. short of dilettante’s machiaveliian interpretation being true, I always read X’s life as one of almost fanon like transformation from racist to universalist, which may expalian the quote you provide.

To honestly say that Dinesh Dsouza acknowledges a shared history and encourages community based action and awareness is ridiculous for someone who’s written a chapter called “two cheers for colonialism”

two is the operable word. normally if you endorse something its 3 cheers, after all. so he’s acknowledging the problems of colonialism while cheering it bringing liberal democracy to india. we’ve had these discussions on SM before and i believe amardeep has been called a sahib for exploring this notion. perhaps 1 cheer is more appropriate. lets call him a nephew tom and leave it at that

Then what is? rotten cole slaw? an inherent committment to keeping one’s community down? Dsouza has repeatedly spoken of “pathologies in the black culture” in “the end of racism” And here is the ultimate irony. What he and many other conservative commenters say are, “Racism doesn’t affect ethnic minorities, it’s that they’re lazy!” How can you say this attitude doesn’t speak of denying the past? If it’s not denying the past, I have no clue what is.

he’s not denying that racism is why blacks/browns are down, its just not the reason we are not getting up. colonialism knowcked india down, socialism kept her down, and capitalism is getting her up…to sum it up.

Dsouza has repeatedly spoken of “pathologies in the black culture”

y’know, so did malcolm. my impression is many blacks are perfectly comfortable speaking about this…they just don’t want whites listening.

I’ve read that that was a stratagem of Malcolm’s to push the ‘mainstream’to see things MLK’s way by denouncing him.(as confessed by Malcolm, to MLK’s wife shortly before X’s assinatation)Sorry can’t find a link for that-I sometimes read non digital media. It was like a “preemptive warning” of what’s to come if they couldn’t get their act together.

Maybe I read you wrong, but I’m sure you have heard yourself(?) or other/non black/brown people describe a “successful”, black person as ‘different’ or somehow less black because by definition success=white, has no one ever’coded’ you yourself as ‘white’ becuase you are successful? Laters.

Dude, you’re like a minnow swimming with a shark. While this nod of who made what mistake is quite well known, you’ll also be interested to know that MLK and the SCLC made acknowledgements to the NOI and “black nationalists” in how better to attune their strategies, and further acknowledged. Furthermore, Malcolm X was well aware of the white media (and their current minority vestiges) attempts to further this wedge between them, and he refused to be manipulated in this way:

“Now my feeling was that although civil rights leaders kept attacking us Muslims, still they were black people, still they were our own kind, and I would be most foolish to let the white man maneuver me against the civil rights movement”, Autobiography, pg 274

Secondly, likening myself to Malcolm, and Dinesh (or you or whoever) to MLK is ludicrous on both counts. To honestly say that Dinesh Dsouza acknowledges a shared history and encourages community based action and awareness is ridiculous for someone who’s written a chapter called “two cheers for colonialism”

perhaps they don’t see raciam as the major probem facing ethnic minorites in the US today, either do i, but this is a far cry from denying the past.

Then what is? rotten cole slaw? an inherent committment to keeping one’s community down? Dsouza has repeatedly spoken of “pathologies in the black culture” in “the end of racism” And here is the ultimate irony. What he and many other conservative commenters say are, “Racism doesn’t affect ethnic minorities, it’s that they’re lazy!” How can you say this attitude doesn’t speak of denying the past? If it’s not denying the past, I have no clue what is.

Of course, Malcolm X realized his folly later. He made his mistakes so you wouldn’t have to. But i guess history must repeat before moving on.

then i don’t see how thomas or D’souza are uncle toms since they don’t deny a shared experiece but rather break from the mainstream on how to fix it. perhaps they don’t see raciam as the major probem facing ethnic minorites in the US today, either do i, but this is a far cry from denying the past.

in bears noting that malcom x labled mlk an uncle tom in no uncertain terms. think about that.