Comments on: Martha Nussbaum on India’s “Clash Within” http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/06/12/martha_nussbaum/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Dikgaj http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/06/12/martha_nussbaum/comment-page-3/#comment-175615 Dikgaj Fri, 02 Nov 2007 18:05:19 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4499#comment-175615 <p>In the quoted text of the article by Nassbaum, I can see that Rabindranath Tagore is referred to as "Sir". As far as I know, the poet returned the title in protest against the Jallianwallabag massacre. As far as Gandhi is concerned, he completely failed to prevent the loss of life and rape of women during the partition. Despite his power base being in western India, he had no effect on the violence in Punjab, and went to Bengal after the first phase of violence against the life and women of Hindus in Noakhali in Eastern Bengal had been successfully executed with the triple aim (Look at Yasmin Khan's book on Partition) of looting of valuables, ethnic cleansing, and appropriation of Hindu women and lands largely completed. Was Gandhi more concerned about the possibility of a militant reaction from the hindus that would disbalance the political power equations in post-independence India? Since the alternative strands of nationalistic movements appear to have derived their strength from the non-Muslim majority, with Punjab (whose Sikh and Hindu refugees heckled Nehru when he attempted to visit a transit camp) and Bengal being especially the leading culprits daring to challenge Nehru's leadership from time to time, was it important for Gandhi and Nehru to ensure as large a population of Muslims as possible in India to be used as checks and balances in Uttar Pradesh's bid for national dominance? Commentators in this column react too much to the Freudian stance of Nassbaum, but we have to remember that authors and scholars also reveal a lot about themselves and their inner Freudian picture when they invoke repeatedly certain paradigms - in this case it is a common feature of most American scholars to be particularly obsessed with sexual interpretations of Indian entities. This should be seen more as a reflection of the thought processes and obsessions of American society rather than a deliberate attack on Indians. It should also be kept in mind, that for decades, the European and American scholars were fed with only a certain reconstruction of Indian history and culture (such as "Islamization in India took place at the hands of Sufis who were a mild mannered, integrative, mystical and philosophical sect", with a complete suppression of the chronicles in Persian, of exploits of the founding Sufi leaders in the north and the east who showed no hesitation at all in shedding the blood of non-Muslims, or abducting women, or say no mention of the systematic enslavement and export of Hindus under various Turko-Afghan and Mughal regimes - ref. Levi, with ShahJahan being projected as the doting husband who built Taj-Mahal but not as a Padshah who made enslavement and sale of Hindu peasants and their women an extensive and lucrative business of the Mughal empire, etc.). So it suddenly appears to be stunning and shocking that such deep seated resentments against the muslims can exist. They always existed as communities are unlikely to have forgotten oral traditions that recount stories of persecution, forced conversions, rape and murder at the hands of various Muslim rulers who tried to emulate the founders of their religion and their native traditions of Arabic Ghazwas. This sort of an academic project to rewrite the consciousness of a vast population was bound to fail in the long run, as even with all sorts of state repression, the majority of the population did not convert to Islam, and it took Islamic invaders almost 800 years from their first attempts to penetrate to the deep south, compared to the roughly 50 years they needed to overrun from Levant to Spain. The degree of resistance to this expansion in India should have been a sufficient indicator, that sooner or later, once the Independence generation was gone, the majority sentiments would assert itself, and the process would be hastened by any sense of insecurity at the hands of predominantly muslim neighbours, who have continued to show what they are capable of under the cloak of religion even during modern times as evdidenced in the Partition and the 1971 civil war in East Pakistan, later Bangladesh, where roughly 2.5 million Hindus were eliminated, and the horror stories of rape and sex-slavery of the partitions repeated (there are excellent non-Indian academic sources for this, whom I am sure Nssbaum would find it difficult to discredit).</p> In the quoted text of the article by Nassbaum, I can see that Rabindranath Tagore is referred to as “Sir”. As far as I know, the poet returned the title in protest against the Jallianwallabag massacre. As far as Gandhi is concerned, he completely failed to prevent the loss of life and rape of women during the partition. Despite his power base being in western India, he had no effect on the violence in Punjab, and went to Bengal after the first phase of violence against the life and women of Hindus in Noakhali in Eastern Bengal had been successfully executed with the triple aim (Look at Yasmin Khan’s book on Partition) of looting of valuables, ethnic cleansing, and appropriation of Hindu women and lands largely completed. Was Gandhi more concerned about the possibility of a militant reaction from the hindus that would disbalance the political power equations in post-independence India? Since the alternative strands of nationalistic movements appear to have derived their strength from the non-Muslim majority, with Punjab (whose Sikh and Hindu refugees heckled Nehru when he attempted to visit a transit camp) and Bengal being especially the leading culprits daring to challenge Nehru’s leadership from time to time, was it important for Gandhi and Nehru to ensure as large a population of Muslims as possible in India to be used as checks and balances in Uttar Pradesh’s bid for national dominance? Commentators in this column react too much to the Freudian stance of Nassbaum, but we have to remember that authors and scholars also reveal a lot about themselves and their inner Freudian picture when they invoke repeatedly certain paradigms – in this case it is a common feature of most American scholars to be particularly obsessed with sexual interpretations of Indian entities. This should be seen more as a reflection of the thought processes and obsessions of American society rather than a deliberate attack on Indians. It should also be kept in mind, that for decades, the European and American scholars were fed with only a certain reconstruction of Indian history and culture (such as “Islamization in India took place at the hands of Sufis who were a mild mannered, integrative, mystical and philosophical sect”, with a complete suppression of the chronicles in Persian, of exploits of the founding Sufi leaders in the north and the east who showed no hesitation at all in shedding the blood of non-Muslims, or abducting women, or say no mention of the systematic enslavement and export of Hindus under various Turko-Afghan and Mughal regimes – ref. Levi, with ShahJahan being projected as the doting husband who built Taj-Mahal but not as a Padshah who made enslavement and sale of Hindu peasants and their women an extensive and lucrative business of the Mughal empire, etc.). So it suddenly appears to be stunning and shocking that such deep seated resentments against the muslims can exist. They always existed as communities are unlikely to have forgotten oral traditions that recount stories of persecution, forced conversions, rape and murder at the hands of various Muslim rulers who tried to emulate the founders of their religion and their native traditions of Arabic Ghazwas. This sort of an academic project to rewrite the consciousness of a vast population was bound to fail in the long run, as even with all sorts of state repression, the majority of the population did not convert to Islam, and it took Islamic invaders almost 800 years from their first attempts to penetrate to the deep south, compared to the roughly 50 years they needed to overrun from Levant to Spain. The degree of resistance to this expansion in India should have been a sufficient indicator, that sooner or later, once the Independence generation was gone, the majority sentiments would assert itself, and the process would be hastened by any sense of insecurity at the hands of predominantly muslim neighbours, who have continued to show what they are capable of under the cloak of religion even during modern times as evdidenced in the Partition and the 1971 civil war in East Pakistan, later Bangladesh, where roughly 2.5 million Hindus were eliminated, and the horror stories of rape and sex-slavery of the partitions repeated (there are excellent non-Indian academic sources for this, whom I am sure Nssbaum would find it difficult to discredit).

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By: Varun Shekhar http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/06/12/martha_nussbaum/comment-page-3/#comment-148325 Varun Shekhar Mon, 09 Jul 2007 21:29:58 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4499#comment-148325 <p>Krish, Nussbaum or any other American or British academic/writer has no business telling Indians what to do or how to think. The only way that could be credible is if the US or UK experiences what India has- an extremely violent Islamic separatist movement on their own soil, plus multiple bombings throughout their respective countries. And if they handle the problem with more humaneness than India has so far. As things stand now, Nussbaum et al sound pompous, condescending and judgemental. I can't see for the life of me how an American can sit in judgement about issues of religion and pluralism in India. From what pedestal?</p> Krish, Nussbaum or any other American or British academic/writer has no business telling Indians what to do or how to think. The only way that could be credible is if the US or UK experiences what India has- an extremely violent Islamic separatist movement on their own soil, plus multiple bombings throughout their respective countries. And if they handle the problem with more humaneness than India has so far. As things stand now, Nussbaum et al sound pompous, condescending and judgemental. I can’t see for the life of me how an American can sit in judgement about issues of religion and pluralism in India. From what pedestal?

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By: Varun Shekhar http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/06/12/martha_nussbaum/comment-page-3/#comment-148322 Varun Shekhar Mon, 09 Jul 2007 21:12:04 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4499#comment-148322 <p>I find it incredible that Nussbaum could so casually dismiss Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism in India, as something minor! What about Kashmir? How can anyone even mention Islamic terror in India, without referring to the occurrances in Kashmir since 1989? There, her whole Moslem minority-Hindu majority paradigm falls apart like a house of cards! And then there are the 2 serial bomb attacks in Mumbai, the attack on India's parliament, the October 2005 bombing in Delhi, the Sankat Mohan bombing in Varanasi, the assault on a scientific institute in Bangalore, the Akshardham temple massacre... The fact is, India is the most Islamic terrorised democracy on earth, putting into the shade the US, UK, France and Spain. And Nussbaum has the audacity to say that Islamic terrorism and fundamentalism is minor or soft in India!</p> I find it incredible that Nussbaum could so casually dismiss Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism in India, as something minor! What about Kashmir? How can anyone even mention Islamic terror in India, without referring to the occurrances in Kashmir since 1989? There, her whole Moslem minority-Hindu majority paradigm falls apart like a house of cards! And then there are the 2 serial bomb attacks in Mumbai, the attack on India’s parliament, the October 2005 bombing in Delhi, the Sankat Mohan bombing in Varanasi, the assault on a scientific institute in Bangalore, the Akshardham temple massacre… The fact is, India is the most Islamic terrorised democracy on earth, putting into the shade the US, UK, France and Spain. And Nussbaum has the audacity to say that Islamic terrorism and fundamentalism is minor or soft in India!

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By: Eva http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/06/12/martha_nussbaum/comment-page-3/#comment-146488 Eva Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:11:54 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4499#comment-146488 <p>While it is commendable that a scholar of Nussbaum's stature has decided to invest her energy in writing a lengthy tome about India, The Clash Within, hardly charters new terrains. Many authors, including her own colleague Dipesh Chakrabarty at University of Chicago, have written extensively – and more informatively – about the rise of Hindu fundamentalism. Rather condescendingly Nussbaum declares in the preface, "This is a book about India for an American and European audience." Such a statement presupposes an authenticity about herself as being able to 'speak to' a Western audience having been raised, as she writes, "in her elite WASP heritage." It comes with an implication that Indians in India cannot gain from her insight or, worse, cannot fully comprehend her comparative critique of liberal democracies.</p> <p>Since the early 1990s quite a few Indian and Western scholars have written about the rise of religious nationalism including excellent books by Christopher Jeffrelot, Arvind Rajagopal, Partha Chatterjee, Chetan Bhatt, Thomas Hansen, Sikata Banerjee, Yogendra Malik to name a few. This is not a lightweight list though these scholars are not household names like Nussbaum. Nussbaum, unfortunately, lumps these politically and philosophically diverse works into one footnote and barely refers to them in building her own arguments.</p> <p>In one chapter, she examines the ideas and legacies of Mohandas Gandhi, Jawaharlal Nehru, and Rabindranath Tagore. Primarily using second-hand exegeses, Nussbaum paints a facile picture of the three men, writing more at a level of a graduate student term paper than a scholar of international reputation. She briefly interviews BJP and RSS leaders (40 minutes in the case of Arun Shourie whom she harshly criticises) and then provides pages of what reads like psychological insights. There lies the danger of moving from ancient Greek philosophy, a scholarly area in which Nussbaum specialises, to writing about contemporary politics in India.</p> <p>Nussbaum asks, at the end of the book, what can be done to change the course of the virulent nationalism that has gripped India and in fostering liberal democracy. She herself has little in answers except to encourage the teaching of Arts in India’s educational system. While Arts and Humanities have been treated as 'second class' in our schools, the solution Nussbaum presents is hardly adequate. Germany and Italy's rise to fascism was also coupled with an equal zealotry for European arts. United States has some of the most expansive museums in the world (and some of the biggest patrons of Arts) but it hasn't stopped the militarisation of that nation.</p> <p>All this is not to say that the book has no merits. Nussbaum provides a scathing critique of Narendra Modi's policies in Gujarat and describes how Indian voters, angered by the BJP's pro-rich economic policies and anti-Muslim violence, voted it out of power in 2004 elections. The chapter on the Indian diaspora which pours millions of dollars into funding the Hindutva movement is particularly thought-provoking. The book is at its strongest when Nussbaum tackles issues of gender including an analysis of the Shah Bano case, a Uniform Civil Code, and the fear of emasculation among upper-caste Hindu men.</p> <p>The Clash Within could be worth a read for someone who is completely unfamiliar with the vast literature on Indian nationalism but for those who are looking for a more historically nuanced reading or a new interpretation, the book has little to offer.</p> While it is commendable that a scholar of Nussbaum’s stature has decided to invest her energy in writing a lengthy tome about India, The Clash Within, hardly charters new terrains. Many authors, including her own colleague Dipesh Chakrabarty at University of Chicago, have written extensively – and more informatively – about the rise of Hindu fundamentalism. Rather condescendingly Nussbaum declares in the preface, “This is a book about India for an American and European audience.” Such a statement presupposes an authenticity about herself as being able to ‘speak to’ a Western audience having been raised, as she writes, “in her elite WASP heritage.” It comes with an implication that Indians in India cannot gain from her insight or, worse, cannot fully comprehend her comparative critique of liberal democracies.

Since the early 1990s quite a few Indian and Western scholars have written about the rise of religious nationalism including excellent books by Christopher Jeffrelot, Arvind Rajagopal, Partha Chatterjee, Chetan Bhatt, Thomas Hansen, Sikata Banerjee, Yogendra Malik to name a few. This is not a lightweight list though these scholars are not household names like Nussbaum. Nussbaum, unfortunately, lumps these politically and philosophically diverse works into one footnote and barely refers to them in building her own arguments.

In one chapter, she examines the ideas and legacies of Mohandas Gandhi, Jawaharlal Nehru, and Rabindranath Tagore. Primarily using second-hand exegeses, Nussbaum paints a facile picture of the three men, writing more at a level of a graduate student term paper than a scholar of international reputation. She briefly interviews BJP and RSS leaders (40 minutes in the case of Arun Shourie whom she harshly criticises) and then provides pages of what reads like psychological insights. There lies the danger of moving from ancient Greek philosophy, a scholarly area in which Nussbaum specialises, to writing about contemporary politics in India.

Nussbaum asks, at the end of the book, what can be done to change the course of the virulent nationalism that has gripped India and in fostering liberal democracy. She herself has little in answers except to encourage the teaching of Arts in India’s educational system. While Arts and Humanities have been treated as ‘second class’ in our schools, the solution Nussbaum presents is hardly adequate. Germany and Italy’s rise to fascism was also coupled with an equal zealotry for European arts. United States has some of the most expansive museums in the world (and some of the biggest patrons of Arts) but it hasn’t stopped the militarisation of that nation.

All this is not to say that the book has no merits. Nussbaum provides a scathing critique of Narendra Modi’s policies in Gujarat and describes how Indian voters, angered by the BJP’s pro-rich economic policies and anti-Muslim violence, voted it out of power in 2004 elections. The chapter on the Indian diaspora which pours millions of dollars into funding the Hindutva movement is particularly thought-provoking. The book is at its strongest when Nussbaum tackles issues of gender including an analysis of the Shah Bano case, a Uniform Civil Code, and the fear of emasculation among upper-caste Hindu men.

The Clash Within could be worth a read for someone who is completely unfamiliar with the vast literature on Indian nationalism but for those who are looking for a more historically nuanced reading or a new interpretation, the book has little to offer.

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By: Shankar http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/06/12/martha_nussbaum/comment-page-3/#comment-146262 Shankar Mon, 25 Jun 2007 03:35:05 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4499#comment-146262 <p><i>Ashis Nandy has an interesting essay "Hinduism and Hindutva"</i> I am not sure if you are talking about <a href="http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/southasia/Socissues/hindutva.html">this</a> essay. It seems to be about something quite different.</p> Ashis Nandy has an interesting essay “Hinduism and Hindutva” I am not sure if you are talking about this essay. It seems to be about something quite different.

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By: Shankar http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/06/12/martha_nussbaum/comment-page-3/#comment-146261 Shankar Mon, 25 Jun 2007 03:32:39 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4499#comment-146261 <p><i>The problem is, the more "globalized" India gets, the more it relies on the views of Western trained academics like Nussbaum and Amardeep, and less on its own much richer, fuller ahistorical tradition.</i> This might be as good a time to announce this as any other. I have decided to split from <a href="http://www.venganza.org/">the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster</a>. I have my own thing now. It is called the Thing of the Flying Food Monster. The original Church was based, regrettably, on spaghetti which has historical connections to Italy. I urge you all to join the Thing in view of this ahistorical tradition that, thankfully, no other country other than India has. (Whew, otherwise, we would have to let everybody in!) Good, no? Join now! <a href="http://thethingoftheflyingfoodmonster.blogspot.com/">The Thing of the Flying Food Monster</a> : now also ageographical and areligious. Coming soon to a Thing near you.</p> The problem is, the more “globalized” India gets, the more it relies on the views of Western trained academics like Nussbaum and Amardeep, and less on its own much richer, fuller ahistorical tradition. This might be as good a time to announce this as any other. I have decided to split from the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I have my own thing now. It is called the Thing of the Flying Food Monster. The original Church was based, regrettably, on spaghetti which has historical connections to Italy. I urge you all to join the Thing in view of this ahistorical tradition that, thankfully, no other country other than India has. (Whew, otherwise, we would have to let everybody in!) Good, no? Join now! The Thing of the Flying Food Monster : now also ageographical and areligious. Coming soon to a Thing near you.

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By: P.G. Wodehouse http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/06/12/martha_nussbaum/comment-page-3/#comment-146256 P.G. Wodehouse Sun, 24 Jun 2007 22:17:36 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4499#comment-146256 <blockquote>I think an education in the sciences leads to an understanding of a certain kind of world-view, filled with certainties: the hypothesis is either true or false. There are binaries, the circuit is either I or O. Exposure to humanities lets people understand that there are not always answers and that to get answers sometimes, a nuanced understanding is in order.</blockquote> <p>This is just a stereotype of science. In reality, controversies do arise in science. The controversies die only when enough experimental evidence is collected.</p> <p>There is no analog of experimental evidence in the humanities. So controversies in history never die out.</p> <p>Another disadvantage that humantities' researchers have is that their publications can be used to form political ideologies. Nussbaum's views are helpful to left-of-center parties. So she comes across as a left-of-center ideologue. Here is another way of looking at it: What is the dividing line between a professor of history publishing a thesis and a newspaper columnist writing an left-wing op-ed article?</p> I think an education in the sciences leads to an understanding of a certain kind of world-view, filled with certainties: the hypothesis is either true or false. There are binaries, the circuit is either I or O. Exposure to humanities lets people understand that there are not always answers and that to get answers sometimes, a nuanced understanding is in order.

This is just a stereotype of science. In reality, controversies do arise in science. The controversies die only when enough experimental evidence is collected.

There is no analog of experimental evidence in the humanities. So controversies in history never die out.

Another disadvantage that humantities’ researchers have is that their publications can be used to form political ideologies. Nussbaum’s views are helpful to left-of-center parties. So she comes across as a left-of-center ideologue. Here is another way of looking at it: What is the dividing line between a professor of history publishing a thesis and a newspaper columnist writing an left-wing op-ed article?

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By: portmanteau http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/06/12/martha_nussbaum/comment-page-3/#comment-146243 portmanteau Sun, 24 Jun 2007 18:48:58 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4499#comment-146243 <p>wow...what a thread. sigh and amardeep, i commend your patience in the first third of the postings.</p> wow…what a thread. sigh and amardeep, i commend your patience in the first third of the postings.

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By: Krish http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/06/12/martha_nussbaum/comment-page-3/#comment-146226 Krish Sun, 24 Jun 2007 00:01:38 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4499#comment-146226 <p>People who believe absurdities, will commit atrocities--Voltaire</p> <p>I think Nussbaum's project is rooted in a similar desire--to root out the absurdities that people believe. I'm surprised at the ignorance that passes for knowledge on this discussion board. I've been following the posts pretty carefully and thought I'd put my $0.02 after the furor had died away. I am bothered by the personal attacks that are usually leveled against anyone who tries to offer a nuanced understanding of the situation.</p> <p>A real discussion of this article would center around:</p> <p>The real "clash of civilizations" is not between "Islam" and "the West," but instead within virtually all modern nations — between people who are prepared to live on terms of equal respect with others who are different, and those who seek the protection of homogeneity and the domination of a single "pure" religious and ethnic tradition.</p> <p>Hardly anyone referenced this paragraph, which is the real crux of her argument. This is the lesson which Nussbaum feels America needs to learn from the Indian example. And really, it's not just about these two countries. As indicated in the quote from her article, this is a problem being experienced by many countries in the world.</p> <p>When I was an undergrad, I had a professor Ron Takaki who wrote a history of America called "A Different Mirror". It was his attempt to offer a version of American history that took into consideration contributions made by immigrants and minorities. And he's laughed off by religious conservatives... why? Because he offers a nuanced understanding which goes against their vision of America being founded in Christianity.</p> <p>So, while many of you would consider yourselves liberals and fully support Takaki in the face of religious extremism in America... you deride Nussbaum with insults like 'western-trained' and call her unknowledgable about India. Do you get my point? She's doing the exact same thing over there that Takaki is doing here.</p> <p>You can't be for minority rights here and then turn around and say that "Muslims get too much" in India, esp. in the face of a mountain of evidence that shows that Muslims are disadvantaged minority in India.</p> <p>Although I am Indian, I grew up in Fiji. In the country of my birth, Indians are victims of a right-wing ideology which tells followers that God has bestowed the land to the indigenous of Fiji, that it is only their right to govern, etc. etc. A simplified history has been constructed which doesn't reflect reality and only confirms one thing in the minds of indigenous believers: the Indian is an outsider.</p> <p>I knew a guy named Vivek in undergrad (sounds a great deal like the Vivek who posted above). Great guy... excellent researcher in the biological sciences... med school at UCSF... blah blah blah. But, the ignorance he spewed when he started talking about the history of India was amazing. Every introductory or survey history course he took, he battled the professors saying they were biased westerners. What I don't get is how such smart people could believe such COMPLETE falsities? The answer is quite simple: Education.</p> <p>While most of you out there have mastered education in the sciences and engineering, your exposure to a humanities curriculum has been minimal. This is another point Nussbaum was stressing. Why does education matter so much? I think an education in the sciences leads to an understanding of a certain kind of world-view, filled with certainties: the hypothesis is either true or false. There are binaries, the circuit is either I or O. Exposure to humanities lets people understand that there are not always answers and that to get answers sometimes, a nuanced understanding is in order.</p> <p>This is usually where right-wing types have jumped all over me and accused me of denying all sorts of unpleasantries in the history of India. This is another absurity that people believe. There is no conspiracy out there to discredit Hinduism (I think our ignorance brings enough shame to our faith).</p> <p>I'm sorry. I will always fight for a nuanced version of Indian history (what's been referred to as 'western propoganda' on this site). If you guys had bothered to sit in on these classes while you were in undergrad, you wouldn't sound so ignorant.</p> <p>These histories so important? Otherwise, people will believe all sorts of absurdities.</p> People who believe absurdities, will commit atrocities–Voltaire

I think Nussbaum’s project is rooted in a similar desire–to root out the absurdities that people believe. I’m surprised at the ignorance that passes for knowledge on this discussion board. I’ve been following the posts pretty carefully and thought I’d put my $0.02 after the furor had died away. I am bothered by the personal attacks that are usually leveled against anyone who tries to offer a nuanced understanding of the situation.

A real discussion of this article would center around:

The real “clash of civilizations” is not between “Islam” and “the West,” but instead within virtually all modern nations — between people who are prepared to live on terms of equal respect with others who are different, and those who seek the protection of homogeneity and the domination of a single “pure” religious and ethnic tradition.

Hardly anyone referenced this paragraph, which is the real crux of her argument. This is the lesson which Nussbaum feels America needs to learn from the Indian example. And really, it’s not just about these two countries. As indicated in the quote from her article, this is a problem being experienced by many countries in the world.

When I was an undergrad, I had a professor Ron Takaki who wrote a history of America called “A Different Mirror”. It was his attempt to offer a version of American history that took into consideration contributions made by immigrants and minorities. And he’s laughed off by religious conservatives… why? Because he offers a nuanced understanding which goes against their vision of America being founded in Christianity.

So, while many of you would consider yourselves liberals and fully support Takaki in the face of religious extremism in America… you deride Nussbaum with insults like ‘western-trained’ and call her unknowledgable about India. Do you get my point? She’s doing the exact same thing over there that Takaki is doing here.

You can’t be for minority rights here and then turn around and say that “Muslims get too much” in India, esp. in the face of a mountain of evidence that shows that Muslims are disadvantaged minority in India.

Although I am Indian, I grew up in Fiji. In the country of my birth, Indians are victims of a right-wing ideology which tells followers that God has bestowed the land to the indigenous of Fiji, that it is only their right to govern, etc. etc. A simplified history has been constructed which doesn’t reflect reality and only confirms one thing in the minds of indigenous believers: the Indian is an outsider.

I knew a guy named Vivek in undergrad (sounds a great deal like the Vivek who posted above). Great guy… excellent researcher in the biological sciences… med school at UCSF… blah blah blah. But, the ignorance he spewed when he started talking about the history of India was amazing. Every introductory or survey history course he took, he battled the professors saying they were biased westerners. What I don’t get is how such smart people could believe such COMPLETE falsities? The answer is quite simple: Education.

While most of you out there have mastered education in the sciences and engineering, your exposure to a humanities curriculum has been minimal. This is another point Nussbaum was stressing. Why does education matter so much? I think an education in the sciences leads to an understanding of a certain kind of world-view, filled with certainties: the hypothesis is either true or false. There are binaries, the circuit is either I or O. Exposure to humanities lets people understand that there are not always answers and that to get answers sometimes, a nuanced understanding is in order.

This is usually where right-wing types have jumped all over me and accused me of denying all sorts of unpleasantries in the history of India. This is another absurity that people believe. There is no conspiracy out there to discredit Hinduism (I think our ignorance brings enough shame to our faith).

I’m sorry. I will always fight for a nuanced version of Indian history (what’s been referred to as ‘western propoganda’ on this site). If you guys had bothered to sit in on these classes while you were in undergrad, you wouldn’t sound so ignorant.

These histories so important? Otherwise, people will believe all sorts of absurdities.

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By: KitKat http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/06/12/martha_nussbaum/comment-page-3/#comment-145427 KitKat Wed, 20 Jun 2007 23:27:45 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4499#comment-145427 <p>In comment above "ahistorical" is good? G Unit, you are becoming a bore with your accusations about 'western-trained.' What exactly does that mean? Should we turn to Vedic scholars to understand what's going on or wait till we can invent a time-machine to go back to pre-colonial India?</p> In comment above “ahistorical” is good? G Unit, you are becoming a bore with your accusations about ‘western-trained.’ What exactly does that mean? Should we turn to Vedic scholars to understand what’s going on or wait till we can invent a time-machine to go back to pre-colonial India?

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