And my point is that all things being equal (or equally dismal in this case), then your culture can at least help to alleviate some of the bleakness…by offering you succor, joy, color, music, identity, pride, kinship structure, whatever. And not all cultures are equal in this regard. I remember reading an ethnograph comparing rural Haryana and rural Mexico…there are major familial, cultural, and societal differences that lead to rural Haryana being a much more ‘social’ place, as opposed to the relative isolation (emotionally, socially) of many Mexican families and individuals. At least that’s what that one study concluded. But rural chinese culture is something I admit I don’t know a whole lot about.

Further, I’m not an Indian, so I would appreciate if you didn’t label me as such. Thanks.

??

Prema, you are beating the same drum. I did not say English was better for the global economy. I said a common language in diverse regions can help facilitate economic growth, etc. Not a common global language, but a common language across a single country. Your examples (Japan, South Korea, Taiwan) conform to that. You can keep arguing yourself into circles, it makes no difference to me.

There is more hunger in India than subsaharan Africa.

Only when you include South Africa in this analysis. Otherwise the numbers are comparable across multiple vectors – malnutrition, infant mortality, disease incidence. The only exception across the board is female literacy. I am not going to argue with you about what the worst form of poverty is. Hunger is absolutely awful, but so is dying of completely preventable diseases. I have also acknowledged that China does better in aggregate, but in many regions of China, particularly rural China, hunger is just as acute if not worse than it is in rural India. I prefer to compare apples to apples, not grapefruits to kumquats. Also, my stats come from the UNDP. If you would like links/tables, let me know.

Further, I’m not an Indian, so I would appreciate if you didn’t label me as such. Thanks.

i am not a social climber

Ignorant nonsense or a stupid lie. Give us some examples.

only ignorant fools who cling to the wreckage of a completely discredited ideology that is responsable for 1/2 of indian children starving could stil wonder how concentration of the means of production in the hands of the state could lead to corruption. it is common under Socialist governments that rulers live like mediaeval kings and unlike capitalist kings they did not create their wealth. castro is on the forbes list and chavez might get there too. cuba has a two tier heatlcare system, one for the elites and foreigners like michael moore, another appaling one for the people. look at the corruption in british unions during the 70′s. stalin killed more people than hilter in the ukrainian famine so i guess he was not a commie according to sen and prema b/c he hurt the poor. ditto for mao.

Socialism is a system under which wealth, privilege and power are allocated according to political rather than economic criteria. socialist apologists like premea and sen, just like the castist apologists condemn “abuse” and claim it was not “true Socialism” despite the same thing happening over and over again. au contraire to sen, das is right. in fact, the license raj is a perfect example of socialism.

And if as you claim the “India shining sloganeers are doing so much to alleviate the poverty” why does India still lead the world in hunger and malnutrition?

because the callous heartless ignorant socialists and their castist brethen have made india so poor that it will take at least half a century of capitalism for her to catch up. since capitalists have lowered taxes, embraced globalizatiion, broke up public sector monopolies, reduced tariffs 170million indians have risen out of poverty while the economy soars at an 8% rate but the castists and socialist apoligists like prema only scoff b/c they would rather see children die than their ideology discredited. people with bloody hands shouldn’t point fingers.

socialism concentration of power inevitably leads to things like the license raj

Ignorant nonsense or a stupid lie. Give us some examples.

No wonder they get so upset at India shining, because when it shines, their game is up.

See? The gullible clown is still trapped in the delusional lie started by the BJP that: “India is shining; the world is in awe of us”!

Half of Indian children are staving because of these callous socialists and they have the nerve to criticize capitalists and India shining sloganeers who are doing so much to alleviate the poverty created by the socialists indifferent to massive human suffering.

Blame the callous casteists, the corrupt Nehruvian brahmin-bania nexus, for India’s hunger. And if as you claim the “India shining sloganeers are doing so much to alleviate the poverty” why does India still lead the world in hunger and malnutrition?

If it is an advantage where are the positive results? Why is the indian subcontinent, the Phillipines, and the african nations that have adopted english, so backward and impoverished? And why are nations like Japan, South Korea, Taiwan etc not handicapped by choosing their own mother tongues?

China is very barely in the top half, and India is solidly in the middle of the bottom half.

There are 44 nations between China and India and you keep insisting that they are in the same league, “not so far apart”. Get real.

I will continue to lump them together because I think that they both having shocking and appalling levels of corruption, human rights violations, starvation, class inequality, and illiteracy.

In starvation and illiteracy there is no comparison between India and China:

http://www.wakeupcall.org/china_india_comparision/china_india_chart.php

I’m sorry, but you’re going to have a hard time convincing me that it is better to be a Chinese peasant in Xixao than it is to be an Indian peasant in Rajasthan or UP. They are both living in glaring poverty.

You are in denial like most indians. Hunger is the worst form of glaring poverty. There is more hunger in India than subsaharan Africa. Forget about China which has done a far better job feeding its children.

you’re not the only person who reads Sen. As much as I respect him and his writings, his interviews are not the Word of the (Economic) Gods. Just because he thinks women are more empowered or that people are better fed/nourished in sub-Saharan Africa doesn’t make it fact.

The denial is pathological it seems. Do you really think that a Nobel Laureate with an international reputation to uphold would pull numbers out of his arse? That he would not have access to reliable data?

Probably the latter…although I try to add value to the discussions here, and usually think a few times before posting anything, sometimes my impulsiveness gets the better of me…which goes for most of us here I’d say. The rural china thing is definitely cringe worthy.

One of these is it’s tendency to describe our past up to 1991 as some kind of left wing Nehruvian socialism, and this is really a monstrous absurdity…….what happened reflects the class bias, the basically upper class bias of the previous governments. And to describe them as a kind of socialism is total absurdity……..

Pathetic hogwash. So the soviets weren’t communists either. From china to cuba, everywhere socialism has gone poverty has increased and an entrenched upper class has emerged under the guise of representing the poor. sen and prema are spreading atrocious and obscene lies b/c they’re willfully unaware of the structural problems inherent in socuialism, basicly power corrupts and socialism concentration of power inevitably leads to things like the license raj,

Now capitalism has arrived in India and china and they are growing at 8% and 170 million Indians have risen out of poverty.

But prema, an utterly duplicitous defender of socialism, wants to make the same mistakes again under the guise of helping the very poor that their socialist policies created. What a load of nonsense! Half of Indian children are staving because of these callous socialists and they have the nerve to criticize capitalists and India shining sloganeers who are doing so much to alleviate the poverty created by the socialists indifferent to massive human suffering.

Typically devious socialist. prema claims to defend the poor only to establish an abominable system that puts people like him in power. he needs the poor to justify his existence and thus has no motive to reduce poverty. How do you sleep at night knowing you are responsible for such wretched poverty? The hunger problem in India is worse than that in subsaharan Africa because of these fools. No wonder they get so upset at India shining, because when it shines, their game is up.

You definitely are a bundle of contradictions, where as you don’t miss any opportunity to berate English speaking Indians, you casually reliate Chinese Rural culture to bleak, I am not sure if you have any first hand experience or your emotions usually get the better of you?

Not true (unless the statement was meant as a joke); Chinese peasant culture is just as rich, and rituals just as colorful. Also like Indian peasants they rely heavily on extended kinship networks.

I’m not sure which would be worse…but the Indian peasant definitely possesses a rich culture, colorful rituals and festivals, and strong extended family (and dare I say caste) ties which do help him to get through an otherwise very bleak life. Rural China is just bleak all around.