Comments on: Caste defenders http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/05/15/caste_defenders/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Anonymous http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/05/15/caste_defenders/comment-page-6/#comment-266324 Anonymous Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:33:36 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4439#comment-266324 <p>It is really sick of people who defend Casteism in this modern world. Some of the sick people are blind folded with the illusion of the life-span of the preserved caste based system in India for ages and some just wants to have it back for their vested interests so that they would be exploiting the society while being at the top. These are modern day demons and devils. The western world civilization is obviously right in not having the caste based discrimanation where people are rewarded based on their achievements rather on caste based bias. That is why the western world have so much progressed and India has lacked it's progress in every field. If the pro-casteism group is gaining favour then India must be divided into 2 groups between pro and anti caste based population. The progress of homogenous society would be hundred fold with in the next hundred years.</p> It is really sick of people who defend Casteism in this modern world. Some of the sick people are blind folded with the illusion of the life-span of the preserved caste based system in India for ages and some just wants to have it back for their vested interests so that they would be exploiting the society while being at the top. These are modern day demons and devils. The western world civilization is obviously right in not having the caste based discrimanation where people are rewarded based on their achievements rather on caste based bias. That is why the western world have so much progressed and India has lacked it’s progress in every field. If the pro-casteism group is gaining favour then India must be divided into 2 groups between pro and anti caste based population. The progress of homogenous society would be hundred fold with in the next hundred years.

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By: vijay baviskar http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/05/15/caste_defenders/comment-page-6/#comment-247145 vijay baviskar Tue, 01 Sep 2009 11:09:32 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4439#comment-247145 <p>sir, why are you make a compulsion of validity for direct second year engineering students this is not good for such students....thank you...</p> sir, why are you make a compulsion of validity for direct second year engineering students this is not good for such students….thank you…

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By: PS http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/05/15/caste_defenders/comment-page-6/#comment-137958 PS Mon, 21 May 2007 01:57:56 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4439#comment-137958 <p><i>jati and varnam are merely a codification of the fact that all humans are not born equal in their endowments: some are tall, some are fat, some are musically talented, and so on. Caste is about the ruthless Bell Curve, and is about as inescapable as race. It is neither good nor bad; it just is </i></p> <p>I actually can't believe how ignorant this comment sounds...Someone's caste doesn't mean that they have inherent biological traits (nor for race for that matter) --- all of them are social constructs.</p> <p><b>all people are born different</b>, but we all should have the <b>equal opportunity</b> to succeed in whatever we want to do. <b>Caste, practiced in a hierarchical way, prevents this equal opportunity</b> - It's fine to me (and I think some people disagree with me on this) if you want to recognize your caste ancestory, but I believe you do not have to recognize your caste ancestory and also have to have prejudices. Caste just is, and race just is - and both are social constructs --- just don't take it to the level of saying that these arbitrary designations mean anything as far as talent and biology. God, hasn't Nazi Germany taught us anything?</p> jati and varnam are merely a codification of the fact that all humans are not born equal in their endowments: some are tall, some are fat, some are musically talented, and so on. Caste is about the ruthless Bell Curve, and is about as inescapable as race. It is neither good nor bad; it just is

I actually can’t believe how ignorant this comment sounds…Someone’s caste doesn’t mean that they have inherent biological traits (nor for race for that matter) — all of them are social constructs.

all people are born different, but we all should have the equal opportunity to succeed in whatever we want to do. Caste, practiced in a hierarchical way, prevents this equal opportunity – It’s fine to me (and I think some people disagree with me on this) if you want to recognize your caste ancestory, but I believe you do not have to recognize your caste ancestory and also have to have prejudices. Caste just is, and race just is – and both are social constructs — just don’t take it to the level of saying that these arbitrary designations mean anything as far as talent and biology. God, hasn’t Nazi Germany taught us anything?

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By: varun http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/05/15/caste_defenders/comment-page-6/#comment-137955 varun Mon, 21 May 2007 01:33:49 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4439#comment-137955 <p>High IQ link to being vegetarian: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6180753.stm :)</p> High IQ link to being vegetarian: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6180753.stm :)

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By: PG http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/05/15/caste_defenders/comment-page-6/#comment-137941 PG Mon, 21 May 2007 00:57:53 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4439#comment-137941 <blockquote>… jati and varnam are merely a codification of the fact that all humans are not born equal in their endowments: some are tall, some are fat, some are musically talented, and so on. Caste is about the ruthless Bell Curve, and is about as inescapable as race. It is neither good nor bad; it just is (casteism, however, is reprehensible, just as racism is.) In fact, caste must be useful, which is why it has survived for so long… [Link]</blockquote> <p>Being fat or musically talented, as qouted above, are more signifiers of culture and habit than of birth, isn't it?</p> <p>You can take babies from a wide variety of castes and raise them all in a similar environment and culture and they will be products of that environment more than anything else.</p> <p>A bengali friend of mine differs on this opinion and says if a "princely" baby is raised by low class people, even though he may have all of their habits and customs, there will be something "royal" in him that stands out from the crowd - some graceful demeanor or elegant stride or whatever.</p> … jati and varnam are merely a codification of the fact that all humans are not born equal in their endowments: some are tall, some are fat, some are musically talented, and so on. Caste is about the ruthless Bell Curve, and is about as inescapable as race. It is neither good nor bad; it just is (casteism, however, is reprehensible, just as racism is.) In fact, caste must be useful, which is why it has survived for so long… [Link]

Being fat or musically talented, as qouted above, are more signifiers of culture and habit than of birth, isn’t it?

You can take babies from a wide variety of castes and raise them all in a similar environment and culture and they will be products of that environment more than anything else.

A bengali friend of mine differs on this opinion and says if a “princely” baby is raised by low class people, even though he may have all of their habits and customs, there will be something “royal” in him that stands out from the crowd – some graceful demeanor or elegant stride or whatever.

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By: Bhanu http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/05/15/caste_defenders/comment-page-6/#comment-137842 Bhanu Sun, 20 May 2007 00:38:36 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4439#comment-137842 <p>Wow...I wanted to see the comments in this post...but it is just so many that I guess I will be guilty of just putting my thoughts without taking the time to read all of the above.</p> <p>I was thinking the other day (yes, thinking...not concluded)...that caste is another system that was part of the system. I mean, it is just that. If the real question is about whether a human being has equal opportunity irrespective of who he is born to, then perhaps, the current system of inheritance and associated benefits may also be discriminatory. For all we know...there may be a time in future when people will frown upon the practice where rich children get good education, opportunities and even ability to rely on the capital from their parents. So, I guess its a matter of evolution, perspective and timing.</p> Wow…I wanted to see the comments in this post…but it is just so many that I guess I will be guilty of just putting my thoughts without taking the time to read all of the above.

I was thinking the other day (yes, thinking…not concluded)…that caste is another system that was part of the system. I mean, it is just that. If the real question is about whether a human being has equal opportunity irrespective of who he is born to, then perhaps, the current system of inheritance and associated benefits may also be discriminatory. For all we know…there may be a time in future when people will frown upon the practice where rich children get good education, opportunities and even ability to rely on the capital from their parents. So, I guess its a matter of evolution, perspective and timing.

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By: Ennis http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/05/15/caste_defenders/comment-page-6/#comment-137754 Ennis Sat, 19 May 2007 06:42:04 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4439#comment-137754 <p>Something that reminded me of Tambram:</p> <blockquote>"The true Negro does not want integration... He realizes his potential is far better among his own race... " <a href="http://letters.salon.com/opinion/feature/2007/05/15/jerryfalwell/permalink/ae7ee9398cb59168eab0c1a36f49ba67.html">Jerry Falwell, 1958</a></blockquote> Something that reminded me of Tambram:

“The true Negro does not want integration… He realizes his potential is far better among his own race… ” Jerry Falwell, 1958
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By: dc http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/05/15/caste_defenders/comment-page-6/#comment-137606 dc Fri, 18 May 2007 19:10:58 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4439#comment-137606 <p>"The poem ends with Gautama's resonant euphemism - "tumi dwijottamo, tumi satyakulojato" (you are the greatest Brahman as you are born out of truth) as he takes into his fold someone who fell through the cracks. Wonder if he would have said the same if Satyakama was decidedly shudra."</p> <p>Wow...this is a perfect example of ridiclously overthinking a parable. The point was simple-the point is to show the importance of character over birth, end of. You can add any extra masala to anything you want. For example, what if I said something that's lauded in Buddhism is to secretly abandon your wife and child so you can selfishly gain enlightment? On another note, its been noted by scholars that its possible the Upanishads arose as a revolt against brahminnical hegemony of the old Vedic rituals-which adds to the idea that this parable was meant to break down the idea of the "higher" birth of brahmins? And the exact same has been argued for the rise of Buddhism=even old Buddhist texts describe how the Buddha himself specifically chose to be born as a prince rather than dalit or whatever else.</p> <p>And something else to think about, it says something that children of all castes are being taught from the same guru.</p> “The poem ends with Gautama’s resonant euphemism – “tumi dwijottamo, tumi satyakulojato” (you are the greatest Brahman as you are born out of truth) as he takes into his fold someone who fell through the cracks. Wonder if he would have said the same if Satyakama was decidedly shudra.”

Wow…this is a perfect example of ridiclously overthinking a parable. The point was simple-the point is to show the importance of character over birth, end of. You can add any extra masala to anything you want. For example, what if I said something that’s lauded in Buddhism is to secretly abandon your wife and child so you can selfishly gain enlightment? On another note, its been noted by scholars that its possible the Upanishads arose as a revolt against brahminnical hegemony of the old Vedic rituals-which adds to the idea that this parable was meant to break down the idea of the “higher” birth of brahmins? And the exact same has been argued for the rise of Buddhism=even old Buddhist texts describe how the Buddha himself specifically chose to be born as a prince rather than dalit or whatever else.

And something else to think about, it says something that children of all castes are being taught from the same guru.

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By: risible http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/05/15/caste_defenders/comment-page-6/#comment-137525 risible Fri, 18 May 2007 04:46:49 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4439#comment-137525 <p>Another area of Brahmin dominantion is the media. Here is a <a href="http://www.thehindu.com/2006/06/05/stories/2006060504981400.htm">report from the Hindu</a>, which cites to a study sponsored by <b>Centre for the Study of Developing Societies</b>, which may have been dowing the patiala pegs or sourced their story from a Christian missionary penpal, who knows ? :-)</p> <p>New Delhi: In the first-ever statistical analysis of its kind, a survey of the social profile of more than 300 senior journalists in 37 Hindi and English newspapers and television channels in the capital has found that "Hindu upper caste men" — who form eight per cent of the country's population — hold 71 per cent of the top jobs in the national media. Women, non-upper castes, and Muslims are grossly under-represented in relation to their share in the population.</p> <p>The survey notes that Dalits and Adivasis "are conspicuous by their absence among the decision-makers. Not even one of the 315 key decision-makers belonged to the Scheduled Castes or Scheduled Tribes."</p> <p>The survey was designed and executed by Anil Chamaria, freelance journalist, Jitendra Kumar from the Media Study Group and Yogendra Yadav, senior fellow at the Centre for the Study of Developing Societies (CSDS).</p> <p>If men and women are taken together, the share of upper caste Hindus or `dwijas' in the upper echelons of the media is 85 per cent. These castes account for 16 per cent of the national population.</p> <p><b>Brahmins alone, the survey found, hold 49 per cent of the top jobs in national journalism.</b> If non-`dwija' forward castes like Marathas, Patels, Jats and Reddys are added, the total forward caste share stands at 88 per cent.</p> <p>In contrast, OBCs, who are estimated to constitute around 40 per cent of the population, account for an "abysmally low" four per cent of top media jobs. In the English print media, OBCs account for just one per cent of top jobs and in the Hindi print media eight per cent. Muslims too, the survey noted, are "severely under-represented in the national media": they account for only three per cent among the key decision makers in the national media, compared with 13.4 per cent in the country's population.</p> Another area of Brahmin dominantion is the media. Here is a report from the Hindu, which cites to a study sponsored by Centre for the Study of Developing Societies, which may have been dowing the patiala pegs or sourced their story from a Christian missionary penpal, who knows ? :-)

New Delhi: In the first-ever statistical analysis of its kind, a survey of the social profile of more than 300 senior journalists in 37 Hindi and English newspapers and television channels in the capital has found that “Hindu upper caste men” — who form eight per cent of the country’s population — hold 71 per cent of the top jobs in the national media. Women, non-upper castes, and Muslims are grossly under-represented in relation to their share in the population.

The survey notes that Dalits and Adivasis “are conspicuous by their absence among the decision-makers. Not even one of the 315 key decision-makers belonged to the Scheduled Castes or Scheduled Tribes.”

The survey was designed and executed by Anil Chamaria, freelance journalist, Jitendra Kumar from the Media Study Group and Yogendra Yadav, senior fellow at the Centre for the Study of Developing Societies (CSDS).

If men and women are taken together, the share of upper caste Hindus or `dwijas’ in the upper echelons of the media is 85 per cent. These castes account for 16 per cent of the national population.

Brahmins alone, the survey found, hold 49 per cent of the top jobs in national journalism. If non-`dwija’ forward castes like Marathas, Patels, Jats and Reddys are added, the total forward caste share stands at 88 per cent.

In contrast, OBCs, who are estimated to constitute around 40 per cent of the population, account for an “abysmally low” four per cent of top media jobs. In the English print media, OBCs account for just one per cent of top jobs and in the Hindi print media eight per cent. Muslims too, the survey noted, are “severely under-represented in the national media”: they account for only three per cent among the key decision makers in the national media, compared with 13.4 per cent in the country’s population.

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By: dipanjan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/05/15/caste_defenders/comment-page-6/#comment-137516 dipanjan Fri, 18 May 2007 03:31:12 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4439#comment-137516 <p>It is probably somewhere in Mahabharata. He was working for Jarasandha. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekalavya#Death"><u>link</u></a>.</p> It is probably somewhere in Mahabharata. He was working for Jarasandha. link.

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