I personally think it’s counter-productive to mash all the issues together at one rally. It’s confusing to the media as well as people who are trying to self-educate when gay rights, the environment, abortion rights, homeless advocates-you get the idea, are all at the same rally. The power and meaning gets diluted. I do think that immigrants rights and labor rights go hand in hand though because so much labor IS immigrant labor. There is a lot of abuse of workers in environments where the people in the workplace who have power, will exploit the non-citizen status of workers and that need to be addressed regardless of their status.

I don’t think the waving of the flag is always about repping the country you came here. Sometimes those of us who are citizens and were born here will have the flag of our relatives country up and waving in support of them. I’m a 3rd genner of mixed ancestry, but I have half a dozen relatives who are in this country illegally. I couldn’t sponsor them but they made a choice, came anyway, and love it here, but there are aspects of home that they miss. Waving a flag doesn’t mean they hate it here, they are just repping the diversity of the movement and some ethnic pride. (Not saying that anyone accused them of hating U.S., just that many people assume thats what it’s about when they see the flags). I see folks with the flag of Texas on their cars I just think they’re homesick.

The last thing mi gente de colombia want is a socialist state, because some of them were trying to avoid being kidnapped by the FARC socialist rebels after we lost one family member to them and one to the paramilitaries. They just want to live without the hundred years of violencia that have been the norm. I have another relative who came here just so she could escape her stupid debts. Reasons for coming here can be complicated and overlapping.

the other piece is that it would be interesting to know whether the attendees of these rallies (the actual immigrants) agree FULLY with the views of the organizers of these things (some of whom are immigrants, some of whom are not). i think a lot of the organizers within the immigrants rights movement are lefties who are also socialists/communists, which is fine, but the question is, do the community members also believe in that?

its common that the organizers often inject their ideolgies into what is really an issue specific policy debate. there’s nothing wrong with that if the attendees also believe these things and the positions endorsed by the rally come from the ground up from the community, but the question is do they? many of the protesters probably left behind inept and ineffective socialist or dictatorial governments (only to have their rights trampeled on here in the US)- so we shouldn’t assume that just because all of these folks are at an immigrant rights rally on may day, that they are also socialists or communists, or that they see this as a race and class issue combined in the same way that abhi is describing it.

I wouldn’t be too sure about that. There is a lot of endorsement among Af-Am for immigration control- which is cutting in to the strong hold traditionally held by Democrats, we are not a monolith.

Racial Hate Feeds a Gang War’s Senseless Killing

I didn’t want to be the one to ‘bring the beef’ into this (mostly?)Hindu house. I have heard anecdotal stories like this,different city, as relates to crime, control of school boards etc. That along with the scarcity of working/low wage jobs that pit AfAm vs Latinos is a legitimate concern.

The solution is always – don’t be poor! but I have to temper that with being my brother’s keeper.

I read that part, it doesn’t back you up at all.

Look, if you’re just making stuff up, why write “Even among illegals, by the second generation most are middle-class”? Why not write, “Illegal aliens outearn whites by the second generation”?

Have you learned nothing from Trotsky? If you say something often enough, it becomes true!

Trotsky would be proud that you didn’t retract your invented statistic, though. Just kind of finessed it a little and moved on.

I genuinly hope what you’re saying about mexican upward mobility is correct, for no other reason than it perfecty intersects with my capitalist ideology and impression that america is a land where racism is not prevalent enough to hold a group back in any significant degree. I know this is the WSJ position, whom I respect.

Furthermore, given that moneyed interest has intersected with open-borders, i don’t see the political will to stop illegal immigration, unless a muslim terrorist comes accros that border. anyway, i like my low prices for fruits and maid service too so i won’t cmplain.

i do still fear that mexico will remain a banana republic. but what the hell, cancun always good for some R&R.

Those who are against it have to right on message boards because the elite are the upper middle class are happy with low slave wages and are not willing to do anything.

This is from the Economist article. The studies they talk about — I do not have primary sources — talk about all immigrants, illegal and legal. I am going to leave the last word to you. My personal opinion falls along two lines:

1) The experience of immigration from Mexico, legal and illegal is mixed.

2) There is a yawning gap between popular support for restricting immigration and actual action. Illegal immigration is convenient not only to the elites but to large sectors of the middle-class as well. Those who benefit from illegal immigration are more than willing to put their money where it matters. Those who are against it write on message boards. I do not see a lot lot done about it in the long run.

Now we are importing poor Mexicans to work as indentured servants. How is this not going to make the US a more unequal society?