Lizzie, some of those men engage in temporary homosexual activities due to the fact that they can’t have gfs

That’s kind of an odd way to describe a rather more turbulent set of emotional and physical circumstances. I mean, I am fairly certain that most heterosexual men don’t engage in homosexual activities “because they can’t have a girlfriend.” If that were the case, quite a few frustrated souls on Shaadi.com would be hanging out in Dupont Circle, looking for love in all the dark places.

To clarify: rape is generally a power move that involves sex, not sex that lacks romance.

Lizzie, some of those men engage in temporary homosexual activities due to the fact that they can’t have gfs. Some of those men are genuinely gay. I’m making a distinction. And it’s not the hand-holding I’m talking about. That is just part of the culture. I’m talking about other forms of affection between these men.

So yeah, in arguing against the phrase “socially forced” (as opposed to “individually forced”), my brain had a slight aneurism and I put ‘prisons’ down as an example of a sex-segregated environment. Disregard, Mutineers! Not that there isn’t some consensual same-sex activity happening in prisons, but, as Avi said, forced sex in prisons is rampant, and is horribly underreported and underrecognized. It is a human rights issue, and has no place in my argument about hand-holding men getting it on in India or elsewhere.

This does not apply to prisons. Most “homosexual” activity in prisons are due to rape or coerced sex. Human Rights Watch have investigated this.

I don’t want to threadjack here, but I have to take a quick side-trip to queer-theory-land in response to this (yes, it’s where I’m happiest .

Human sexual behavior is incredibly varied, and our categories of classifying it incredibly recent, historically speaking (the medical/psychiatric definitions of homosexual and heterosexual, and the social identities of gay, lesbian, etc. have been around for less than a hundred years). These categories also do not hold true in different places around the world. The U.S., for example, insists on labeling a same-sex PDA like hand-holding as necessarily linked to same-sex sexual activities. That same PDA does not mean the same thing in other cultures, obviously. The meaning we give to certain acts changes across places and times.

I guess what I’m saying is don’t assume. I doubt that any same-sex-lovin’ activity happening between men (or women) anywhere in the world is “socially forced.” I understand that there are social environments that are more conducive to same-sex activity (prisons, boarding schools, etc), but no one is holding a gun to anyone’s head and saying, “Hold hands, you two! Okay, now when you’re alone, get biz-zay!”

I guess what I’m saying is be suspicious of any “scientific word” that seeks to explain human sexual behavior, especially one that simplistically labels same-sex activity as some kind of “inverted gender” bullshit brought about by “lack of opportunity with the opposite,” as if opposite-sex sexual activity is the baseline from which all else is measured and people are incapable of desiring certain sex acts all on their own. We can’t be put in boxes, people! We’re too damn freaky.

Having said that, the Gere ass-grab/cheek-lick was not cool. Physical touching of any kind, freaky or un-, should be consensual, and this seemed more like an unpleasant surprise that Shilpa couldn’t get out of without shoving his ass off the podium. And that wouldn’t have been lady-like, right? I think that women often feel they can’t react as they’d like to inappropriate touching, since the response would be akin to the wedgie defense (it’s just a joke! it’s no big deal! don’t be so uptight! etc.).

Speaking of power dynamics and physical inappropriateness, someone upthread mentioned the inappropriate Bush/Merkel massage from a while back. Did anyone else catch the Reid/Pelosi Vulcan shoulder rub at the Democratic press conference last week? The Daily Show had a funny about it. She’s not your 9-year-old niece giving a good-citizenship speech, Reid, she’s the Speaker of the motherf**king house! Jeez. Insecure maroon.

In some of those cases they are temporarily homosexual, a type of socially forced homosexuality until they get married. There is a scientific word for that – when genders turn inward because of lack of oppurtunity with the opposite — can’t remember. But it is common in societies that employ segregation of the sexes. People from such societies will verify that for you. After marriage (to the opposite) the same gender lovin declines or stops completely.

I have seen mothers and sons carry on in such ways that would be considered “borderline” to most on this website — again, in the same type of segregated society.

I disagree. I resided in a small town, much smaller than Agra, even Aligarh. Small, traditional, religious holy site — mostly rural until recently, even now still considered “rural”. The people there, even though the more “well off” ones, would not be considered “middle class” by Indian urban center standards. Sexual harrassment there was as common as public urination (shows you how common it was!). Basically, as common as aloo paranthas for breakfast in the morning and aloo subzi for dinner in the night.

Contrary to what you said, I have experienced less sexual harrassment in India’s urban centers. My friends (Indian women and others) report the same.

PG, As usual you have outdone yourself with your posts. So this is India’s number one social problem eh? Not rampant casteism in the villages, not absymally low levels of literacy, not large rural unemployment and not the emerging urban-rural divide. Tres Interessant. For someone who claims “to have spent 10 years in India and has been mercilessly pawed by grey-haired older gentlemen and who never once misses an occasion to point out this fact, maybe you could put a little more thought before you gurgitate the first thing that pops into your head onto this board.

You’re a man. You have NO idea what it’s like to be a woman in India. No idea. I stand behind my words “one hundred and ten percent!”

I completely agree!! Human beings naturally want to show affection toward each other and repressing that desire, comes out in different forms such as the interesting phenomenon of seemingly heterosexual men holding hands and carrying on the way a boy/girl couple would. Why is affection in public between two men accepted and an opposite sex couple not?

Any whoo, I think I am going off subject, but I just like to say that if Shilpa was offended by the behaviour of Richard, it is between them to deal with and not in the court system of india. That said, if an american movie star like George Clooney wants to make out with an Indian woman on national tv, I will gladly volunteer. (lol!!)