Comments on: Conversational Excursions — Faculty Lounge Edition http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/04/03/conversational/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: muralimannered http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/04/03/conversational/comment-page-1/#comment-126716 muralimannered Fri, 06 Apr 2007 13:33:44 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4302#comment-126716 <p>back in my post-colonial heyday (don't we all have one?) I was always struck by the very sincere belief, from the writers whose talks I attended, that their writing style (the more obtuse it was the more magnificent it became)needed to be as indigestible to the modern consumer as possible. This IM convo is not quite to that Homi Babha or even Ashis Nandy level--to the point where the reader feels some sort of calculus needs to be performed in order to truly understand the sentence.</p> <p>I always wondered why University of Melbourne didn't pony up the cash to keep Dipesh Chakrabarty or even why my alma mater couldn't hold on to to it's most brilliant profs (but that's a different story. properly titled, "Why UR chose aesthetically pleasing architecture and painfully perfect shrubberies over scholarly substance and exciting research.)</p> <p>very enjoyable anyhow.</p> back in my post-colonial heyday (don’t we all have one?) I was always struck by the very sincere belief, from the writers whose talks I attended, that their writing style (the more obtuse it was the more magnificent it became)needed to be as indigestible to the modern consumer as possible. This IM convo is not quite to that Homi Babha or even Ashis Nandy level–to the point where the reader feels some sort of calculus needs to be performed in order to truly understand the sentence.

I always wondered why University of Melbourne didn’t pony up the cash to keep Dipesh Chakrabarty or even why my alma mater couldn’t hold on to to it’s most brilliant profs (but that’s a different story. properly titled, “Why UR chose aesthetically pleasing architecture and painfully perfect shrubberies over scholarly substance and exciting research.)

very enjoyable anyhow.

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By: Blatant Troll http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/04/03/conversational/comment-page-1/#comment-126307 Blatant Troll Wed, 04 Apr 2007 22:30:00 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4302#comment-126307 <p>True intellectuals are concise. Sometimes a thesaurus is NOT your best friend.</p> True intellectuals are concise. Sometimes a thesaurus is NOT your best friend.

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By: Not Mishi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/04/03/conversational/comment-page-1/#comment-126265 Not Mishi Wed, 04 Apr 2007 19:17:02 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4302#comment-126265 <p>great post!</p> great post!

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By: desichick http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/04/03/conversational/comment-page-1/#comment-126217 desichick Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:20:33 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4302#comment-126217 <p>wah wah waha. Laajwaab. Loving IM conversation post.</p> wah wah waha. Laajwaab. Loving IM conversation post.

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By: TheBarmaid http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/04/03/conversational/comment-page-1/#comment-126171 TheBarmaid Wed, 04 Apr 2007 14:24:21 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4302#comment-126171 <p>First class, Amardeep, first class!</p> First class, Amardeep, first class!

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By: sakshi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/04/03/conversational/comment-page-1/#comment-126142 sakshi Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:37:32 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4302#comment-126142 <p>Thanks for blogging this, Amardeep.</p> <p>Based on a v quick read through his paper on the project (<a href="http://web.media.mit.edu/~dkroy/papers/pdf/cogsci06.pdf">link</a>), it seems Deb Roy has his own model for language acquisition in humans. The basic idea seems to be that children learn by mapping objects and routine actions to different parts of speech. He has built mathematical models which have been able to learn nouns and verbs from videos of infants playing with their mothers. He now wants more complete data to conclusively prove his hypotheses.</p> <blockquote> Chomsky's thesis has been widely discredited in the field of linguistics It has? As a lay reader, thought it had gained even more credence recently... </blockquote> <p>One of the byproducts of the project might be evidence to disprove Chomsky's hypothesis(though it cannot prove it). If he can get a program to learn a language based simply on statistical models, without using an inbuilt grammatical model, it is a setback to the idea that language needs to be inbuilt. From the paper:</p> <blockquote> A critical question underlying any model of learning concerns the balance between nature and nurture. HSP brings a new perspective to this age-old debate. Given a near-complete, contextually-rich record of a child’s first three years, what are the set of ontological constraints that must be built into a model for it to successfully learn aspects of language? If a machine can be shown to acquire some capability or structure X without corresponding innate preconditions, this provides evidence that the child’s environment provides X – and thus need not be innate.</blockquote> Thanks for blogging this, Amardeep.

Based on a v quick read through his paper on the project (link), it seems Deb Roy has his own model for language acquisition in humans. The basic idea seems to be that children learn by mapping objects and routine actions to different parts of speech. He has built mathematical models which have been able to learn nouns and verbs from videos of infants playing with their mothers. He now wants more complete data to conclusively prove his hypotheses.

Chomsky’s thesis has been widely discredited in the field of linguistics It has? As a lay reader, thought it had gained even more credence recently…

One of the byproducts of the project might be evidence to disprove Chomsky’s hypothesis(though it cannot prove it). If he can get a program to learn a language based simply on statistical models, without using an inbuilt grammatical model, it is a setback to the idea that language needs to be inbuilt. From the paper:

A critical question underlying any model of learning concerns the balance between nature and nurture. HSP brings a new perspective to this age-old debate. Given a near-complete, contextually-rich record of a child’s first three years, what are the set of ontological constraints that must be built into a model for it to successfully learn aspects of language? If a machine can be shown to acquire some capability or structure X without corresponding innate preconditions, this provides evidence that the child’s environment provides X – and thus need not be innate.
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By: Ismat http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/04/03/conversational/comment-page-1/#comment-126115 Ismat Wed, 04 Apr 2007 05:48:39 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4302#comment-126115 <p>dude, you called singh a swedish car.</p> dude, you called singh a swedish car.

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By: Salil Maniktahla http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/04/03/conversational/comment-page-1/#comment-126095 Salil Maniktahla Wed, 04 Apr 2007 04:48:24 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4302#comment-126095 <p>ah. it's like coming home, this post.</p> <p>let me soak it in for a while.</p> <p>mmmm. good.</p> ah. it’s like coming home, this post.

let me soak it in for a while.

mmmm. good.

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By: Sadaiyamma http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/04/03/conversational/comment-page-1/#comment-126093 Sadaiyamma Wed, 04 Apr 2007 04:31:42 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4302#comment-126093 <p>ANNA you have a good point. I think sepia mutiny's target audience should be college students and young graduate students who use too much jargon.</p> <p>I guess that people who work don't read stuff like this.</p> ANNA you have a good point. I think sepia mutiny’s target audience should be college students and young graduate students who use too much jargon.

I guess that people who work don’t read stuff like this.

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By: Whose God is it anyways? http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/04/03/conversational/comment-page-1/#comment-126091 Whose God is it anyways? Wed, 04 Apr 2007 04:21:53 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4302#comment-126091 <blockquote>Intellectual$ingh3141592: :-(. (Please forgive the emoticon — it’s a childish expedient, but sometimes an eloquent one.) Well, I must be off, I’m afraid.</blockquote> <blockquote>SudoSecularSAsian: ;-) All is forgiven. This is the brave new world of lexico-typographical expressivity! Au revoir!</blockquote> <p>my favorite part. mostly because :) and :( probably sum up the sum total of my internetese and i'm often afraid and embarassed to ask what all those acronyms people litter their posts with mean.</p> <blockquote>Or has Sepia doing some market research - and found that majority of site visitors are ivory-tower dwelling effete, pointy-headed reification-fetishists - hence the degradation to suit the "target audience"?</blockquote> <p>:)</p> Intellectual$ingh3141592: :-( . (Please forgive the emoticon — it’s a childish expedient, but sometimes an eloquent one.) Well, I must be off, I’m afraid.
SudoSecularSAsian: ;-) All is forgiven. This is the brave new world of lexico-typographical expressivity! Au revoir!

my favorite part. mostly because :) and :( probably sum up the sum total of my internetese and i’m often afraid and embarassed to ask what all those acronyms people litter their posts with mean.

Or has Sepia doing some market research – and found that majority of site visitors are ivory-tower dwelling effete, pointy-headed reification-fetishists – hence the degradation to suit the “target audience”?

:)

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