Comments on: Talwinder, Virgil and the Universal Plot Line http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/28/talwinder_virgi/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Amitabh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/28/talwinder_virgi/comment-page-1/#comment-120634 Amitabh Tue, 06 Mar 2007 13:52:53 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4209#comment-120634 <p>A major difference between Vancouver and Queens is that in Vancouver, most desis are living in nice suburban homes (even in desi majority areas), with good school systems, and lots of opportunities (which many throw away by joining gangs as you mentioned, and/or getting into drugs). In Queens, they live in relatively low-income urban neighborhoods, which while not as bad as parts of Brooklyn or the Bronx, are nonetheless gritty places where the schools are abysmal, and opportunities few. California's Central Valley I think has features similar to both Vancouver AND Queens in different ways and probably falls somewhere inbetween.</p> A major difference between Vancouver and Queens is that in Vancouver, most desis are living in nice suburban homes (even in desi majority areas), with good school systems, and lots of opportunities (which many throw away by joining gangs as you mentioned, and/or getting into drugs). In Queens, they live in relatively low-income urban neighborhoods, which while not as bad as parts of Brooklyn or the Bronx, are nonetheless gritty places where the schools are abysmal, and opportunities few. California’s Central Valley I think has features similar to both Vancouver AND Queens in different ways and probably falls somewhere inbetween.

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By: Clueless http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/28/talwinder_virgi/comment-page-1/#comment-120621 Clueless Tue, 06 Mar 2007 08:54:42 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4209#comment-120621 <p>Amitabh</p> <p>The desi you talk about in Queens are almost like the desi in the Vancouver area. Everything from the hip-hop bhangra to speaking good punjabi is the same here in Vancouver. I have also noticed this in the punjabi community in California especially in Central Califronia area from Stockton to Bakerfield.</p> <p>Here in Vancouver several people including a punjabi youth counselor have told me that punjabi girls go to college alot more then punjabi boys. But also alot of young punjabi males who don't go to college, still get good paying jobs such as driving trucks,building houses or working in wharehouses or in lumber mills. Then there are those young men who have chosen the wrong path and ended up in gangs. Over 100 young punjabi males have lost there life to gang violence, most of it brown on brown. I have 2nd cousins who are dead or in jail for a long time due to this lifestyle.</p> Amitabh

The desi you talk about in Queens are almost like the desi in the Vancouver area. Everything from the hip-hop bhangra to speaking good punjabi is the same here in Vancouver. I have also noticed this in the punjabi community in California especially in Central Califronia area from Stockton to Bakerfield.

Here in Vancouver several people including a punjabi youth counselor have told me that punjabi girls go to college alot more then punjabi boys. But also alot of young punjabi males who don’t go to college, still get good paying jobs such as driving trucks,building houses or working in wharehouses or in lumber mills. Then there are those young men who have chosen the wrong path and ended up in gangs. Over 100 young punjabi males have lost there life to gang violence, most of it brown on brown. I have 2nd cousins who are dead or in jail for a long time due to this lifestyle.

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By: Amitabh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/28/talwinder_virgi/comment-page-1/#comment-120618 Amitabh Tue, 06 Mar 2007 08:31:00 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4209#comment-120618 <p>At the risk of appearing to view desis from the hood as curiosities, here are some (admittedly superficial) observations. I've observed (and talked to) many young, 2nd gen Queens desis whenever I've gone to bhangra gigs out there, and I have to say, their futures in most instances look bleak. The schools by and large are terrible. Ambitions consist of driving trucks or taxis, or doing construction work. College is not on the horizon for a good many. Culturally it's quite a mishmash...strong black and hispanic street influences and style cues imposed on a hardcore rural Punjabi substrate. Hip-hop bhangra is the music of choice. On the positive side, many do speak very fluent Punjabi. Also positive are the strong friendships and large social circles they move in as well as strong family ties. These are not lonely people. Their lives seem fun while they're in their teens...after that I'm not so sure.</p> At the risk of appearing to view desis from the hood as curiosities, here are some (admittedly superficial) observations. I’ve observed (and talked to) many young, 2nd gen Queens desis whenever I’ve gone to bhangra gigs out there, and I have to say, their futures in most instances look bleak. The schools by and large are terrible. Ambitions consist of driving trucks or taxis, or doing construction work. College is not on the horizon for a good many. Culturally it’s quite a mishmash…strong black and hispanic street influences and style cues imposed on a hardcore rural Punjabi substrate. Hip-hop bhangra is the music of choice. On the positive side, many do speak very fluent Punjabi. Also positive are the strong friendships and large social circles they move in as well as strong family ties. These are not lonely people. Their lives seem fun while they’re in their teens…after that I’m not so sure.

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By: Amitabh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/28/talwinder_virgi/comment-page-1/#comment-120617 Amitabh Tue, 06 Mar 2007 08:01:02 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4209#comment-120617 <p>Although Singh's behavior and general attitude SUCKS but you do have to admire the guts, that too from a 20 year old. Some of these desi kids in Queens are fairly bad-ass. I've been to bhangra shows where I've seen skinny desi teenagers refuse to back down from enormous African American bouncers. One unfortunate consequence of this bravado is that the traditional desi respect for older people seems to have been lost.</p> Although Singh’s behavior and general attitude SUCKS but you do have to admire the guts, that too from a 20 year old. Some of these desi kids in Queens are fairly bad-ass. I’ve been to bhangra shows where I’ve seen skinny desi teenagers refuse to back down from enormous African American bouncers. One unfortunate consequence of this bravado is that the traditional desi respect for older people seems to have been lost.

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By: siddhartha http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/28/talwinder_virgi/comment-page-1/#comment-120400 siddhartha Sat, 03 Mar 2007 05:44:23 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4209#comment-120400 <blockquote>YO, what the heck does this mean? sometimes i get the sense that desis from "the hood" are an object of anthropological curiosity for all the brown folks who grew up in small-town white america (as you said --"characters" in some "urban story"). i don't know anything about your background, and i'm not trying to be presumptuous-- but your little comment about the "four plots" was lame and kind of weird from my perspective as a lifelong NYer...</blockquote> <p>It means that life in big cities has certain constants that transcend the different ethnicities and nationalities that happen to coalesce there at different times in history. I'm not in any way singling out desis. Quite the contrary: I am pointing to constants in human experience. As for the "four plots" -- perhaps it is seven -- Aristotle said that all human tragedy reduces to seven core plots -- and it's a writer's old saw that there are a small number of core stories "out there" to be told, and most stories are variations on this core set.</p> <p>I don't know about your perspective as a lifelong NYer but since you ask about my background, I didn't grow up in a small town and I didn't grow up in white America, in fact I didn't grow up in America at all. I grew up in Paris with roots in Calcutta and in several East Coast cities -- Boston, NYC, Washington -- so like it or not, you're talking to another metropolitan cat here, and a relatively globalized one at that. Oh, I'm also only half-desi. Anyway, that's where I'm coming from. Feel free to drop me a line if you want to talk literature and, yes, anthropology. Sincere offer.</p> YO, what the heck does this mean? sometimes i get the sense that desis from “the hood” are an object of anthropological curiosity for all the brown folks who grew up in small-town white america (as you said –”characters” in some “urban story”). i don’t know anything about your background, and i’m not trying to be presumptuous– but your little comment about the “four plots” was lame and kind of weird from my perspective as a lifelong NYer…

It means that life in big cities has certain constants that transcend the different ethnicities and nationalities that happen to coalesce there at different times in history. I’m not in any way singling out desis. Quite the contrary: I am pointing to constants in human experience. As for the “four plots” — perhaps it is seven — Aristotle said that all human tragedy reduces to seven core plots — and it’s a writer’s old saw that there are a small number of core stories “out there” to be told, and most stories are variations on this core set.

I don’t know about your perspective as a lifelong NYer but since you ask about my background, I didn’t grow up in a small town and I didn’t grow up in white America, in fact I didn’t grow up in America at all. I grew up in Paris with roots in Calcutta and in several East Coast cities — Boston, NYC, Washington — so like it or not, you’re talking to another metropolitan cat here, and a relatively globalized one at that. Oh, I’m also only half-desi. Anyway, that’s where I’m coming from. Feel free to drop me a line if you want to talk literature and, yes, anthropology. Sincere offer.

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By: NY kuri http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/28/talwinder_virgi/comment-page-1/#comment-120394 NY kuri Sat, 03 Mar 2007 04:03:15 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4209#comment-120394 <p>[You could take out the desi names and put in Italian, Irish or Greek ones and you’d have an American urban story from a previous wave of immigration and settlement. Or you could keep the characters and change the setting to London, for instance, and it would work the same way. It’s confirmation that there are some constants in metropolitan life, and, perhaps, of that old writer’s saw that claims there are only four plots in human affairs, and all stories are merely variations.]</p> <p>YO, what the heck does this mean? sometimes i get the sense that desis from "the hood" are an object of anthropological curiosity for all the brown folks who grew up in small-town white america (as you said --"characters" in some "urban story"). i don't know anything about your background, and i'm not trying to be presumptuous-- but your little comment about the "four plots" was lame and kind of weird from my perspective as a lifelong NYer...</p> [You could take out the desi names and put in Italian, Irish or Greek ones and you’d have an American urban story from a previous wave of immigration and settlement. Or you could keep the characters and change the setting to London, for instance, and it would work the same way. It’s confirmation that there are some constants in metropolitan life, and, perhaps, of that old writer’s saw that claims there are only four plots in human affairs, and all stories are merely variations.]

YO, what the heck does this mean? sometimes i get the sense that desis from “the hood” are an object of anthropological curiosity for all the brown folks who grew up in small-town white america (as you said –”characters” in some “urban story”). i don’t know anything about your background, and i’m not trying to be presumptuous– but your little comment about the “four plots” was lame and kind of weird from my perspective as a lifelong NYer…

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By: Zenon http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/28/talwinder_virgi/comment-page-1/#comment-120305 Zenon Fri, 02 Mar 2007 16:37:38 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4209#comment-120305 <p>Queens, is the landlord couple desi?</p> Queens, is the landlord couple desi?

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By: siddhartha http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/28/talwinder_virgi/comment-page-1/#comment-120304 siddhartha Fri, 02 Mar 2007 16:35:59 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4209#comment-120304 <p>Thank you Queens #14 for those details. I was hoping someone from the 'hood might see this and toss in their two cents. Nuff respect.</p> Thank you Queens #14 for those details. I was hoping someone from the ‘hood might see this and toss in their two cents. Nuff respect.

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By: Queens http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/28/talwinder_virgi/comment-page-1/#comment-120294 Queens Fri, 02 Mar 2007 15:15:47 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4209#comment-120294 <p>i live in queens next to the couple involve in the shooting. the cop had a camera outside the his house that is how he saw singh with the neighbors wife. he told the husband, and then the husband confronted singh. singh denied the affair and got mad of the cop, which singh did not know he was an off duty police officer. landlord and singh were arguing outside the house and the cop got involved, singh had a metal pipe and told him to mind his biz for the second time, singh got upset and went up to the cop with the pipe in hand, thats when cop told him police officer, and shot him twice in each leg. the landlord just ran inside. the rest is in the papers. maybe singh was a trouble maker, but i dont think he would have gone up to the guy with a pipe if he knew he was a police officer. and the cop knowing he was armed, wouldnt back off the argument between singh and his neighbor, just because he is <b>armed</b>, thats mess up.</p> i live in queens next to the couple involve in the shooting. the cop had a camera outside the his house that is how he saw singh with the neighbors wife. he told the husband, and then the husband confronted singh. singh denied the affair and got mad of the cop, which singh did not know he was an off duty police officer. landlord and singh were arguing outside the house and the cop got involved, singh had a metal pipe and told him to mind his biz for the second time, singh got upset and went up to the cop with the pipe in hand, thats when cop told him police officer, and shot him twice in each leg. the landlord just ran inside. the rest is in the papers. maybe singh was a trouble maker, but i dont think he would have gone up to the guy with a pipe if he knew he was a police officer. and the cop knowing he was armed, wouldnt back off the argument between singh and his neighbor, just because he is armed, thats mess up.

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By: Salil Maniktahla http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/28/talwinder_virgi/comment-page-1/#comment-120254 Salil Maniktahla Fri, 02 Mar 2007 04:48:02 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4209#comment-120254 <p><i>Shot through the legs and Talwinder's to blame You give loooove a bad name.</i></p> <p>Everyone Singh together now!</p> Shot through the legs and Talwinder’s to blame You give loooove a bad name.

Everyone Singh together now!

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