Comments on: Like Skin http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/22/like_skin/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Nikhila http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/22/like_skin/comment-page-2/#comment-124384 Nikhila Mon, 26 Mar 2007 08:23:48 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4198#comment-124384 <p>Nikon --</p> <p>Religion may be a "choice" to those for whom it is nothing more than a set of customs or a social network; but the true religion of one's soul is not a choice at all. I am a Hindu (Saiva), not by birth but by necessity. It is the religion I have always instinctively believed in and lived by, and until I figured that out, my soul had no peace. There was no "choice" involved; Saiva Dharma is as much a part of me as my skin or my gender, and I imagine it is much the same for anyone who has found their spiritual home and feels it deeply.</p> Nikon –

Religion may be a “choice” to those for whom it is nothing more than a set of customs or a social network; but the true religion of one’s soul is not a choice at all. I am a Hindu (Saiva), not by birth but by necessity. It is the religion I have always instinctively believed in and lived by, and until I figured that out, my soul had no peace. There was no “choice” involved; Saiva Dharma is as much a part of me as my skin or my gender, and I imagine it is much the same for anyone who has found their spiritual home and feels it deeply.

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By: DJ Drrrty Poonjabi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/22/like_skin/comment-page-2/#comment-120453 DJ Drrrty Poonjabi Mon, 05 Mar 2007 12:23:55 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4198#comment-120453 <p>Thanks for the help, Jai. <a href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/lifestyles/links/turbans_27.html">Here's</a> an interesting comparison of turbans and headdress.</p> Thanks for the help, Jai. Here’s an interesting comparison of turbans and headdress.

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By: Floridian http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/22/like_skin/comment-page-2/#comment-120418 Floridian Sat, 03 Mar 2007 22:39:32 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4198#comment-120418 <p>"is an experience that other people who are visibly marked as different (either for ethno/religious reasons or for any other reason) can also identify with."</p> <p>Children can be cruel due to sheer ignorance, but how does an adult Sikh feel in the US society? For you sardarji's, the "visibly marked" difference is two-fold. I know one gets adjusted to any situation, and most people are too polite to ogle, but do you guys feel self-conscious in public places or meeting new people? A couple of times I had to get out of my car to pump gas while dressed in kurta pajama. I was probably returning from some puja. Nobody dared to stare, but I did feel a little self-conscious.</p> <p>Not completely off the topic, I had an interesting confrontation with a rasta guy I had hired at my Chicago firm. He had the dreadlocks, which are not quite as commonplace up north as down here in Miami, where we have a huge Jamaican population. I asked the guy to please do something about his hair because we had clients visiting all the time. The fellow asked me if I was Indian and hence knew about sikhs. He asked me what I would tell a sikh employee to do about his hair. I kept my mouth shut after that. He did tie his dreads in a pony tail the next day.</p> “is an experience that other people who are visibly marked as different (either for ethno/religious reasons or for any other reason) can also identify with.”

Children can be cruel due to sheer ignorance, but how does an adult Sikh feel in the US society? For you sardarji’s, the “visibly marked” difference is two-fold. I know one gets adjusted to any situation, and most people are too polite to ogle, but do you guys feel self-conscious in public places or meeting new people? A couple of times I had to get out of my car to pump gas while dressed in kurta pajama. I was probably returning from some puja. Nobody dared to stare, but I did feel a little self-conscious.

Not completely off the topic, I had an interesting confrontation with a rasta guy I had hired at my Chicago firm. He had the dreadlocks, which are not quite as commonplace up north as down here in Miami, where we have a huge Jamaican population. I asked the guy to please do something about his hair because we had clients visiting all the time. The fellow asked me if I was Indian and hence knew about sikhs. He asked me what I would tell a sikh employee to do about his hair. I kept my mouth shut after that. He did tie his dreads in a pony tail the next day.

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By: Jai Singh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/22/like_skin/comment-page-2/#comment-120413 Jai Singh Sat, 03 Mar 2007 19:37:44 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4198#comment-120413 <p><b>Chetchow,</b></p> <blockquote>Can someone please tell me about the significance of the turban? i know a bit about the 5K's but its <i>kesh </i>right? i do not want to go to wikipedia for this but want to know what you think it signifies.</blockquote> <p>Yes, you're right in saying that "kesh" is one of the 5Ks, ie. uncut hair. The turban in itself is not sacred in Sikhism (at least not in the same way) and is obviously not one of the 5Ks either.</p> <p>However, it <i>is </i>significant in Sikhism due to the following reasons:</p> <ol> <li><p>It's basically a crown, and represents the individual's inherent equality with anyone regardless of how "exalted" the other person (eg. royalty etc) may be in a temporal worldly sense. Remember that in Mughal India and certain parts of the Middle-East, the turban had aristocratic connotations. Of course, this isn't supposed to be an egotistical thing -- it's the ideal Sikh's personal qualities which are supposed to confer the concept of "being like a king/queen" on him/her, not just being a Sikh or wearing the turban itself. Also, I guess this is also supposed to encourage the wearer of the turban to behave in a chivalrous and dignified way. To some extent it's symbolic of Guru Gobind Singh too.</p></li> <li><p>It's a way of protecting the person's hair and head; with regards to the latter, it's also supposed to protect the wearer from blows to the head in any violent confrontation. Some people would also say that the fact that most versions of the Sikh turban extent to covering the wearer's ears also protects this vulnerable part of their bodies from physical attack. In a sense it therefore also has some military uses (some protection against blunt instrments and bladed weapons, although obviously not bullets), although during actual battlefield warfare Sikhs historically also wore modified armoured helmets (some antiques from the post-Guru Gobind Singh/pre-British era include helmets with a special bulge at the top for the top-knot). Further protection was conferred by the sharp-edged steel disk ("chakra") which further encircled the turban -- sometimes still visible in the cases of modern-day Nihang Sikhs -- and this was also emblematic of Guru Gobind Singh, who wore his turban in this manner.</p></li> <li><p>The final reason ties into the rationale of people having to cover their heads when inside a gurdwara. This is in recognition of being inside a holy place and a gesture of respect to God. Now, since in Sikhism, the belief is that God's presence is absolutely everywhere and that the entire universe is therefore divine in its essence, covering one's head by wearing a turban is a mark of respect to this all-pervasive divine presence.</p></li> </ol> Chetchow,

Can someone please tell me about the significance of the turban? i know a bit about the 5K’s but its kesh right? i do not want to go to wikipedia for this but want to know what you think it signifies.

Yes, you’re right in saying that “kesh” is one of the 5Ks, ie. uncut hair. The turban in itself is not sacred in Sikhism (at least not in the same way) and is obviously not one of the 5Ks either.

However, it is significant in Sikhism due to the following reasons:

  1. It’s basically a crown, and represents the individual’s inherent equality with anyone regardless of how “exalted” the other person (eg. royalty etc) may be in a temporal worldly sense. Remember that in Mughal India and certain parts of the Middle-East, the turban had aristocratic connotations. Of course, this isn’t supposed to be an egotistical thing — it’s the ideal Sikh’s personal qualities which are supposed to confer the concept of “being like a king/queen” on him/her, not just being a Sikh or wearing the turban itself. Also, I guess this is also supposed to encourage the wearer of the turban to behave in a chivalrous and dignified way. To some extent it’s symbolic of Guru Gobind Singh too.

  2. It’s a way of protecting the person’s hair and head; with regards to the latter, it’s also supposed to protect the wearer from blows to the head in any violent confrontation. Some people would also say that the fact that most versions of the Sikh turban extent to covering the wearer’s ears also protects this vulnerable part of their bodies from physical attack. In a sense it therefore also has some military uses (some protection against blunt instrments and bladed weapons, although obviously not bullets), although during actual battlefield warfare Sikhs historically also wore modified armoured helmets (some antiques from the post-Guru Gobind Singh/pre-British era include helmets with a special bulge at the top for the top-knot). Further protection was conferred by the sharp-edged steel disk (“chakra”) which further encircled the turban — sometimes still visible in the cases of modern-day Nihang Sikhs — and this was also emblematic of Guru Gobind Singh, who wore his turban in this manner.

  3. The final reason ties into the rationale of people having to cover their heads when inside a gurdwara. This is in recognition of being inside a holy place and a gesture of respect to God. Now, since in Sikhism, the belief is that God’s presence is absolutely everywhere and that the entire universe is therefore divine in its essence, covering one’s head by wearing a turban is a mark of respect to this all-pervasive divine presence.

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By: yeti http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/22/like_skin/comment-page-2/#comment-120211 yeti Thu, 01 Mar 2007 13:46:34 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4198#comment-120211 <blockquote>Do you think White people ( the system ) in the US pits immigrants against each other and is really responsible for minority upon minority hate. His essay and a few resulting comments on this post are a classic example of false victimhood.</blockquote> <p>Yeah, stop blaming your problems on white people! We all know the real problem in America is BLACK supremacy. All those stupid "history" books are dead wrong when they describe the way the United States has been constructed. No to the black supremacist system! No to the Communoleftists!</p> <p>Where is SpoorLam when you need him/her?</p> Do you think White people ( the system ) in the US pits immigrants against each other and is really responsible for minority upon minority hate. His essay and a few resulting comments on this post are a classic example of false victimhood.

Yeah, stop blaming your problems on white people! We all know the real problem in America is BLACK supremacy. All those stupid “history” books are dead wrong when they describe the way the United States has been constructed. No to the black supremacist system! No to the Communoleftists!

Where is SpoorLam when you need him/her?

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By: Ennis http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/22/like_skin/comment-page-2/#comment-120210 Ennis Thu, 01 Mar 2007 13:35:12 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4198#comment-120210 <blockquote>In no manner am I implying that its okay to put your hands on someone just because you know nothing about them. I'm almost positive that kid does not know of the extensive hurt that he incurred. It does not excuse his behavior, but it does change the context. </blockquote> <p>Right. He doesn't know how badly Sonny felt afterwards. However, that doesn't mean that he didn't know the difference between right and wrong. That's like stealing something and afterwards saying, I didn't know it cost <em>that</em> much. I only thought I was stealing something worth $40 and not $500. But that's not an excuse. The point is that everybody knows that you don't walk up to somebody, stick your hand right at their skin, and yank off their clothing.</p> In no manner am I implying that its okay to put your hands on someone just because you know nothing about them. I’m almost positive that kid does not know of the extensive hurt that he incurred. It does not excuse his behavior, but it does change the context.

Right. He doesn’t know how badly Sonny felt afterwards. However, that doesn’t mean that he didn’t know the difference between right and wrong. That’s like stealing something and afterwards saying, I didn’t know it cost that much. I only thought I was stealing something worth $40 and not $500. But that’s not an excuse. The point is that everybody knows that you don’t walk up to somebody, stick your hand right at their skin, and yank off their clothing.

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By: DJ Drrrty Poonjabi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/22/like_skin/comment-page-2/#comment-120208 DJ Drrrty Poonjabi Thu, 01 Mar 2007 11:59:41 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4198#comment-120208 <blockquote>oh it happens in india all the time especially among schoolkids etc. it would have been funny if the guy's turban had been pulled off and he had been storing an idli in his turban and the idli is left on his head and he brings it down and eats it.</blockquote> <p>Oh yea, that would have been hi-larious. Something tells me you know quite a bit about having idli in your head.</p> <blockquote>for me, keeping my hair and turban is as much about resistance to assimilation as it is about religion and spirituality. it would have been so easy to cut my hair when i was a kid, SO easy. and i came real close in the fifth grade. but as i became more engaged with what was going on in the world and began to find supportive environments to talk about the racism i was encountering, my hair and turban became a source of strength -- in a sense, it became my "fuck you" to white/christian supremacy in the u.s., it became a daily form of resistance to racism. that may sound ridiculous to some, but i think it's true on some level for a lot of us who maintain "traditions" - be they cultural or religious - of our ancestors in this country.</blockquote> <p>Sonny, though it may seem like an incongruous comparison, your <i>raison d'etre</i> reminds me of the lyrics to one of my favorite CSNY songs, "<a href="http://www.snapdrive.net/files/251496/CROSBY%20STILLS%20NASH%20AND%20YOUNG%20-%20ALMOST%20CUT%20MY%20HAIR.MP3">Almost Cut My Hair</a>." I'm not equating the experiences of white <strike>hippies</strike> musician activists with that of Sikhs with dastaars, but putting forward that more can sympathize with Sonny that some people <a href="http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/004198.html#comment120104">(<em>cough</em>)</a> would like to believe.</p> <p>"Almost cut my hair It happened just the other day It's gettin kinda long I coulda said it wasn't in my way But I didn't and I wonder why I feel like letting my freak flag fly Cause I feel like I owe it to someone</p> <p>Must be because I had the flu' for Christmas And I'm not feeling up to par It increases my paranoia Like looking at my mirror and seeing a police car But I'm not giving in an inch to fear Cause I missed myself this year I feel like I owe it to someone</p> <p>When I finally get myself together I'm going to get down in that sunny southern weather And I find a place inside to laugh Separate the wheat from the chaff I feel like I owe it to someone"</p> <p>Btw, congrats on getting Tom Morello to produce your band. Any chance you can get some of his crunchy metal licks on your EP? @=) Ska isn't normally hard enough to be my bag, but I'm definitely digging what you guys are doing, though I could always use more crunchy metal licks...and some more cowbell. Anyways, best to you and your band.</p> <p>P.S. I can't believe you guys played with Gogol Bordello. Those guys are freakin' awesome.</p> oh it happens in india all the time especially among schoolkids etc. it would have been funny if the guy’s turban had been pulled off and he had been storing an idli in his turban and the idli is left on his head and he brings it down and eats it.

Oh yea, that would have been hi-larious. Something tells me you know quite a bit about having idli in your head.

for me, keeping my hair and turban is as much about resistance to assimilation as it is about religion and spirituality. it would have been so easy to cut my hair when i was a kid, SO easy. and i came real close in the fifth grade. but as i became more engaged with what was going on in the world and began to find supportive environments to talk about the racism i was encountering, my hair and turban became a source of strength — in a sense, it became my “fuck you” to white/christian supremacy in the u.s., it became a daily form of resistance to racism. that may sound ridiculous to some, but i think it’s true on some level for a lot of us who maintain “traditions” – be they cultural or religious – of our ancestors in this country.

Sonny, though it may seem like an incongruous comparison, your raison d’etre reminds me of the lyrics to one of my favorite CSNY songs, “Almost Cut My Hair.” I’m not equating the experiences of white hippies musician activists with that of Sikhs with dastaars, but putting forward that more can sympathize with Sonny that some people (cough) would like to believe.

“Almost cut my hair It happened just the other day It’s gettin kinda long I coulda said it wasn’t in my way But I didn’t and I wonder why I feel like letting my freak flag fly Cause I feel like I owe it to someone

Must be because I had the flu’ for Christmas And I’m not feeling up to par It increases my paranoia Like looking at my mirror and seeing a police car But I’m not giving in an inch to fear Cause I missed myself this year I feel like I owe it to someone

When I finally get myself together I’m going to get down in that sunny southern weather And I find a place inside to laugh Separate the wheat from the chaff I feel like I owe it to someone”

Btw, congrats on getting Tom Morello to produce your band. Any chance you can get some of his crunchy metal licks on your EP? @=) Ska isn’t normally hard enough to be my bag, but I’m definitely digging what you guys are doing, though I could always use more crunchy metal licks…and some more cowbell. Anyways, best to you and your band.

P.S. I can’t believe you guys played with Gogol Bordello. Those guys are freakin’ awesome.

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By: Mina http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/22/like_skin/comment-page-2/#comment-120180 Mina Thu, 01 Mar 2007 01:40:44 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4198#comment-120180 <blockquote>But I'm sure if you asked the average black person about Sikhism, they would know nothing about it So it's OK to put your hands on someone if you don't know anything about them? Fuck that.</blockquote> <p>In no manner am I implying that its okay to put your hands on someone just because you know nothing about them. I'm almost <b>positive</b> that kid does not know of the extensive hurt that he incurred. It does not excuse his behavior, but it does change the context.</p> But I’m sure if you asked the average black person about Sikhism, they would know nothing about it So it’s OK to put your hands on someone if you don’t know anything about them? Fuck that.

In no manner am I implying that its okay to put your hands on someone just because you know nothing about them. I’m almost positive that kid does not know of the extensive hurt that he incurred. It does not excuse his behavior, but it does change the context.

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By: JangiahMan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/22/like_skin/comment-page-2/#comment-120153 JangiahMan Wed, 28 Feb 2007 19:46:00 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4198#comment-120153 <blockquote>That's why it was done out of ignorance...It doesn't happen in India because we know the significance behind it. Sonny has every right to be angry. But I'm sure if you asked the average black person about Sikhism, they would know nothing about it, except for the dastaar.</blockquote> <p>oh it happens in india all the time especially among schoolkids etc. it would have been funny if the guy's turban had been pulled off and he had been storing an idli in his turban and the idli is left on his head and he brings it down and eats it. that would have been very interesting although i would still be sorry for the guy. reminds me of the graham greene novel with the indian astrologer who stores chapatis in his turban.</p> That’s why it was done out of ignorance…It doesn’t happen in India because we know the significance behind it. Sonny has every right to be angry. But I’m sure if you asked the average black person about Sikhism, they would know nothing about it, except for the dastaar.

oh it happens in india all the time especially among schoolkids etc. it would have been funny if the guy’s turban had been pulled off and he had been storing an idli in his turban and the idli is left on his head and he brings it down and eats it. that would have been very interesting although i would still be sorry for the guy. reminds me of the graham greene novel with the indian astrologer who stores chapatis in his turban.

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By: Panini Pothoharvi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/22/like_skin/comment-page-2/#comment-120119 Panini Pothoharvi Wed, 28 Feb 2007 17:17:59 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4198#comment-120119 <p>Says Amardeep:</p> <blockquote>It’s about having that sense of self dismantled and disrespected <b>for no apparent reason</b> — for someone’s idea of a joke.</blockquote> <p>The reason is apparent enough: the fact that one can dismantle and disrespect someone's sense of the self, of her/his quiet and unobtrusive dignity without any sense of remoarse or shame and treat it as no more than an innocent joke. Such masquerades of innocence are often steeped in cultural and racist hubris. There is nothing pristine or ignorant about it. Make no mistake about that.</p> Says Amardeep:

It’s about having that sense of self dismantled and disrespected for no apparent reason — for someone’s idea of a joke.

The reason is apparent enough: the fact that one can dismantle and disrespect someone’s sense of the self, of her/his quiet and unobtrusive dignity without any sense of remoarse or shame and treat it as no more than an innocent joke. Such masquerades of innocence are often steeped in cultural and racist hubris. There is nothing pristine or ignorant about it. Make no mistake about that.

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