Comments on: Bloody Valentine http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/15/bloody_valentin/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: superbrown http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/15/bloody_valentin/comment-page-1/#comment-118870 superbrown Sun, 18 Feb 2007 23:13:27 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4185#comment-118870 <blockquote>child labor is part of the reality of India. But defending child labor? Come on people...it's not complicated. It's simple. It's a bad thing. And as consumers, we do have the power to make at least multinational corporations change their practices.</blockquote> <p>The vast majority of child labour in India is employed on small family farms, shops, domestic help, family trade etc... The employment of children by multinationals is quite low (both in percentage and absolute terms).</p> <p>Boycotting partcular products and making multinationals change thier practices may make us feel good but I don't see how it helps these kids, chances are they will just find work in a different industry.</p> child labor is part of the reality of India. But defending child labor? Come on people…it’s not complicated. It’s simple. It’s a bad thing. And as consumers, we do have the power to make at least multinational corporations change their practices.

The vast majority of child labour in India is employed on small family farms, shops, domestic help, family trade etc… The employment of children by multinationals is quite low (both in percentage and absolute terms).

Boycotting partcular products and making multinationals change thier practices may make us feel good but I don’t see how it helps these kids, chances are they will just find work in a different industry.

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By: desishiksa http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/15/bloody_valentin/comment-page-1/#comment-118757 desishiksa Sat, 17 Feb 2007 04:45:48 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4185#comment-118757 <blockquote>Sure. But I don't think there is a better alternative short of the government offering free food and a salary for every kid that attends school.</blockquote> <p>Yes there is...for their parents to be paid fair wages so that they don't have to be paid to go to school, or to work. I am frankly shocked by the apologists for child labor. It's like saying that slaves in America were better off than they would have been dying of disease and starvation in Africa. Sure, it's difficult to lead a morally consistent life, and sure, child labor is part of the reality of India. But defending child labor? Come on people...it's not complicated. It's simple. It's a bad thing. And as consumers, we do have the power to make at least multinational corporations change their practices.</p> Sure. But I don’t think there is a better alternative short of the government offering free food and a salary for every kid that attends school.

Yes there is…for their parents to be paid fair wages so that they don’t have to be paid to go to school, or to work. I am frankly shocked by the apologists for child labor. It’s like saying that slaves in America were better off than they would have been dying of disease and starvation in Africa. Sure, it’s difficult to lead a morally consistent life, and sure, child labor is part of the reality of India. But defending child labor? Come on people…it’s not complicated. It’s simple. It’s a bad thing. And as consumers, we do have the power to make at least multinational corporations change their practices.

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By: Preston http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/15/bloody_valentin/comment-page-1/#comment-118681 Preston Fri, 16 Feb 2007 21:50:36 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4185#comment-118681 <p>It's not the numbers in India that are the problem. Brazil has 184 million people. South Africa has "only" 47 million. Both suffer from problems similar to those in India. By contrast, the US with some 300 million people is the third largest country in the world. Would India look any different if it had, say, a mere 500 million people? Yes, at 1.08 billion, the statistical drag on GDP per head in India is extreme--but having a smaller population isn't necessarily going to redistribute the wealth.</p> <p>China's GDP per head (at purchasing power parity) is $7,498, more than twice India's at $3,508. (All these figures are from The Economist.)</p> It’s not the numbers in India that are the problem. Brazil has 184 million people. South Africa has “only” 47 million. Both suffer from problems similar to those in India. By contrast, the US with some 300 million people is the third largest country in the world. Would India look any different if it had, say, a mere 500 million people? Yes, at 1.08 billion, the statistical drag on GDP per head in India is extreme–but having a smaller population isn’t necessarily going to redistribute the wealth.

China’s GDP per head (at purchasing power parity) is $7,498, more than twice India’s at $3,508. (All these figures are from The Economist.)

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By: chitrana http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/15/bloody_valentin/comment-page-1/#comment-118672 chitrana Fri, 16 Feb 2007 21:09:33 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4185#comment-118672 <p>Its called the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_transition">demographic transition theory</a> and every country goes through it. You can employ all the family planning techniques you want but its not going to make a real big dent in population growth. Basic economic growth can fix this and many other problems.</p> Its called the demographic transition theory and every country goes through it. You can employ all the family planning techniques you want but its not going to make a real big dent in population growth. Basic economic growth can fix this and many other problems.

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By: Guhan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/15/bloody_valentin/comment-page-1/#comment-118659 Guhan Fri, 16 Feb 2007 19:58:12 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4185#comment-118659 <p>I wish the government would finance and prioritize family planning (especially in the countryside), and give incentives to have fewer children. Having 1.1 billion people in India is not something to be proud of. Poverty is always a symptom of an irrational culture. The best way to cure it is to make women aware of their individual power and educate them to get rid of entrenched superstitious beliefs. Quantity does not equal Quality, otherwise a culture like of Sweden would be wretchedly poor.</p> I wish the government would finance and prioritize family planning (especially in the countryside), and give incentives to have fewer children. Having 1.1 billion people in India is not something to be proud of. Poverty is always a symptom of an irrational culture. The best way to cure it is to make women aware of their individual power and educate them to get rid of entrenched superstitious beliefs. Quantity does not equal Quality, otherwise a culture like of Sweden would be wretchedly poor.

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By: daustin http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/15/bloody_valentin/comment-page-1/#comment-118571 daustin Fri, 16 Feb 2007 07:58:57 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4185#comment-118571 <p>blockquote>I don't think there is a better alternative short of the government offering free food and a salary for every kid that attends school</blockquote></p> <p>Some countries are going exactly that - Check out these links:</p> <p>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=oportunidades</p> <p>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oportunidades</p> blockquote>I don’t think there is a better alternative short of the government offering free food and a salary for every kid that attends school

Some countries are going exactly that – Check out these links:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=oportunidades

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oportunidades

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By: Anindo http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/15/bloody_valentin/comment-page-1/#comment-118555 Anindo Fri, 16 Feb 2007 06:11:05 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4185#comment-118555 <p>Wow!</p> <p>I am amazed. For the first time I am observing rational thoughts on this blog rather then sanctimonious preaching about why Indians behave the way they do or how they should behave ideally.</p> <p>Keep it up guys. I had almost given up on this blog. One Sidh and one Ennis is enough to keep the FOBs away from this place.</p> <p>Regards, Aninda</p> Wow!

I am amazed. For the first time I am observing rational thoughts on this blog rather then sanctimonious preaching about why Indians behave the way they do or how they should behave ideally.

Keep it up guys. I had almost given up on this blog. One Sidh and one Ennis is enough to keep the FOBs away from this place.

Regards, Aninda

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By: chitrana http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/15/bloody_valentin/comment-page-1/#comment-118520 chitrana Fri, 16 Feb 2007 04:21:00 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4185#comment-118520 <blockquote><blockquote>would these kids be better off not earning any money at all...</blockquote> This kind of argument drives me NUTS. Where would you draw the line then in terms of dangerous or detrimental child labor OR adult sweatshop labor??? It's the argument used to justify multinational sweatshops: "At least they're earning wages instead of living in the dirt, those poor third world sods..."</blockquote> <p>We don't have the luxury of drawing lines. Poor children are not going to start attending school all of a sudden just because every multinational sweat shop grows a conscience. That's not how the world works. If its not plucking flowers, it would be something else. Take a look at how far China has come. Are sweatshops evil? Sure. But I don't think there is a better alternative short of the government offering free food and a salary for every kid that attends school. And why hold multinationals to a higher standard when like in this case, worker conditions of local companies aren't any better?</p>
would these kids be better off not earning any money at all…
This kind of argument drives me NUTS. Where would you draw the line then in terms of dangerous or detrimental child labor OR adult sweatshop labor??? It’s the argument used to justify multinational sweatshops: “At least they’re earning wages instead of living in the dirt, those poor third world sods…”

We don’t have the luxury of drawing lines. Poor children are not going to start attending school all of a sudden just because every multinational sweat shop grows a conscience. That’s not how the world works. If its not plucking flowers, it would be something else. Take a look at how far China has come. Are sweatshops evil? Sure. But I don’t think there is a better alternative short of the government offering free food and a salary for every kid that attends school. And why hold multinationals to a higher standard when like in this case, worker conditions of local companies aren’t any better?

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By: Janeofalltrades http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/15/bloody_valentin/comment-page-1/#comment-118512 Janeofalltrades Fri, 16 Feb 2007 03:56:17 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4185#comment-118512 <p>This is an interesting discussion. I'm in India at the moment so this sort of hits home. I'm somewhere with the school of thought that before we start boycotting products and companies we need to create better opportunities for the children and the families involved. I agree with Preston whole heartedly. So many families cannot afford to lose a wage earner.</p> <p>To see child beggars on the street is probably the most painful experience of my life. I'm ashamed to say that when I was younger or even as a child who grew up in India I never noticed them. When I see arguments like there are millions of child labourers in India it breaks my heart. That it's a poor country (for the majority) and that it has over a billion people is something often ignored. The sheer size of the poor population alone needs to be taken into account.</p> <p>My aunt has recently employeed a 14 year old in her house who lives with her. I had so many bad emotions about the decision. What about her school? How could you do this? But apparently this child was brought from my paternal village because she was going to otherwise get married off to a man 30 years her senior. She paid money to the family she pulled her out of. My aunt without thinking much into the whole thing brought her to Mumbai.</p> <p>The child is taught to read and write at home but she doesn't attend school and for all intents and purposes appears happy and health. She has a home she is protected in where she gets to live and be a part of the family but the stark truth is she is household help. Nearly every household I've been to in Mumbai in the last week has a young boy or girl that lives with them that is household help. The same child would have to hustle in all the wrong places out on the streets. It's so complicated. It's so difficult being in the middle of the melee to have any strong stand on it.</p> This is an interesting discussion. I’m in India at the moment so this sort of hits home. I’m somewhere with the school of thought that before we start boycotting products and companies we need to create better opportunities for the children and the families involved. I agree with Preston whole heartedly. So many families cannot afford to lose a wage earner.

To see child beggars on the street is probably the most painful experience of my life. I’m ashamed to say that when I was younger or even as a child who grew up in India I never noticed them. When I see arguments like there are millions of child labourers in India it breaks my heart. That it’s a poor country (for the majority) and that it has over a billion people is something often ignored. The sheer size of the poor population alone needs to be taken into account.

My aunt has recently employeed a 14 year old in her house who lives with her. I had so many bad emotions about the decision. What about her school? How could you do this? But apparently this child was brought from my paternal village because she was going to otherwise get married off to a man 30 years her senior. She paid money to the family she pulled her out of. My aunt without thinking much into the whole thing brought her to Mumbai.

The child is taught to read and write at home but she doesn’t attend school and for all intents and purposes appears happy and health. She has a home she is protected in where she gets to live and be a part of the family but the stark truth is she is household help. Nearly every household I’ve been to in Mumbai in the last week has a young boy or girl that lives with them that is household help. The same child would have to hustle in all the wrong places out on the streets. It’s so complicated. It’s so difficult being in the middle of the melee to have any strong stand on it.

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By: Samir http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/15/bloody_valentin/comment-page-1/#comment-118508 Samir Fri, 16 Feb 2007 03:44:54 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4185#comment-118508 <h1>30</h1> <p>safer...compared to what?</p> <p>I did answer that safer than brothels and pedophiles. Thats the Harsh reality there. You can sit in USA and I can in Australia. but until you go to the hell of poverty, you will never know, neither will I.</p> 30

safer…compared to what?

I did answer that safer than brothels and pedophiles. Thats the Harsh reality there. You can sit in USA and I can in Australia. but until you go to the hell of poverty, you will never know, neither will I.

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