Comments on: World of Apu http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/13/world_of_apu/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: meenbeen http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/13/world_of_apu/comment-page-1/#comment-118256 meenbeen Thu, 15 Feb 2007 03:19:41 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4179#comment-118256 <blockquote>Store owners are also proud of their backgrounds, upbringing and educational accomplishments.</blockquote> <p>Of course they are. I would never seek to undermine them and think they were uneducated, because as the lesson of Apu(!!!) has taught us, store owners sometimes have PhDs too. And I don't. And I don't own a store either. So in a way, I would be proud to be an Apu too.</p> Store owners are also proud of their backgrounds, upbringing and educational accomplishments.

Of course they are. I would never seek to undermine them and think they were uneducated, because as the lesson of Apu(!!!) has taught us, store owners sometimes have PhDs too. And I don’t. And I don’t own a store either. So in a way, I would be proud to be an Apu too.

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By: Carib Queen http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/13/world_of_apu/comment-page-1/#comment-118215 Carib Queen Thu, 15 Feb 2007 00:37:42 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4179#comment-118215 <blockquote>I myself was asked recently (by a total stranger) if my family owned a grocery store, based merely on the fact that I am brown and that I know where several DC-area stores are. It made my jaw drop at first, and then it just really made me laugh, because it was so stupid. I don't find this to be a "dangerous" stereotype, but I do understand <i><b>the annoyance and frustration it causes to people that are proud of their background, upbringing and educational accomplishments. People are ridiculous and that will never change</b>.</i></blockquote> <p>Store owners are also proud of their backgrounds, upbringing and educational accomplishments.</p> <p>In fact, if someone assumed I was successful enough to own a store, I would feel very proud of myself and take it as a great compliment.</p> I myself was asked recently (by a total stranger) if my family owned a grocery store, based merely on the fact that I am brown and that I know where several DC-area stores are. It made my jaw drop at first, and then it just really made me laugh, because it was so stupid. I don’t find this to be a “dangerous” stereotype, but I do understand the annoyance and frustration it causes to people that are proud of their background, upbringing and educational accomplishments. People are ridiculous and that will never change.

Store owners are also proud of their backgrounds, upbringing and educational accomplishments.

In fact, if someone assumed I was successful enough to own a store, I would feel very proud of myself and take it as a great compliment.

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By: Manju http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/13/world_of_apu/comment-page-1/#comment-118203 Manju Thu, 15 Feb 2007 00:01:47 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4179#comment-118203 <blockquote>But you seem to have a real issue dealing with the fact that these businesses which are disproportionately desi-owned are at the low end of the hospitality and grocery businesses in America. Why this problem dealing with facts??</blockquote> <p>running low-end or cheap business' (like wal-mart, 7-11, mobil gas) is not exactly looked down upon in the capitalist world, as you imply. i know you're trying to bust the model minority myth, as you were<a href="http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/004092.html#comment111907"> here</a>, but by pointing out that desi's are disprportionately represented in these businesses, you're just adding to it.</p> But you seem to have a real issue dealing with the fact that these businesses which are disproportionately desi-owned are at the low end of the hospitality and grocery businesses in America. Why this problem dealing with facts??

running low-end or cheap business’ (like wal-mart, 7-11, mobil gas) is not exactly looked down upon in the capitalist world, as you imply. i know you’re trying to bust the model minority myth, as you were here, but by pointing out that desi’s are disprportionately represented in these businesses, you’re just adding to it.

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By: Doordarshan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/13/world_of_apu/comment-page-1/#comment-118193 Doordarshan Wed, 14 Feb 2007 23:35:53 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4179#comment-118193 <blockquote><b>You snivelling idiot</b>. What the heck makes an IT worker better than a convenience store owner?......You've grown up with a Brahminized model of prestige, and believe putting on a tie and fiddling with excel sheets makes you superior. </blockquote> <p>Dont get your knickers in a twist over imaginary insults you thin-skinned "snivelling idiot". No one is putting you or yours down for making an honest living running a small convenience store or a cheap motel. But you seem to have a real issue dealing with the fact that these businesses which are disproportionately desi-owned are at the low end of the hospitality and grocery businesses in America. Why this problem dealing with facts??</p> <blockquote>You've grown up with a Brahminized model of prestige, and believe putting on a tie and fiddling with excel sheets makes you superior. No wonder India is such a poor wretched place.</blockquote> <p>You obviously are new around here. I happen to agree to a large extent with your blaming brahminism for India's wretchedness.</p> You snivelling idiot. What the heck makes an IT worker better than a convenience store owner?……You’ve grown up with a Brahminized model of prestige, and believe putting on a tie and fiddling with excel sheets makes you superior.

Dont get your knickers in a twist over imaginary insults you thin-skinned “snivelling idiot”. No one is putting you or yours down for making an honest living running a small convenience store or a cheap motel. But you seem to have a real issue dealing with the fact that these businesses which are disproportionately desi-owned are at the low end of the hospitality and grocery businesses in America. Why this problem dealing with facts??

You’ve grown up with a Brahminized model of prestige, and believe putting on a tie and fiddling with excel sheets makes you superior. No wonder India is such a poor wretched place.

You obviously are new around here. I happen to agree to a large extent with your blaming brahminism for India’s wretchedness.

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By: Neale http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/13/world_of_apu/comment-page-1/#comment-118189 Neale Wed, 14 Feb 2007 23:31:12 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4179#comment-118189 <p>HMF Good catch. It <i>was</i> the South Park guys i was referring to.</p> HMF Good catch. It was the South Park guys i was referring to.

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By: Blue http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/13/world_of_apu/comment-page-1/#comment-118183 Blue Wed, 14 Feb 2007 23:14:02 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4179#comment-118183 <blockquote>Because what's obvious to you, is not obvious to all.</blockquote> <p>Thanks, HMF. I just realized what was wrong with my above logic and wrote, I don't know, 500 words about it. See the trackback above. (Snow days are good for blogs, yes?)</p> <p>The gist of the argument is "Who am I to try to combat the experiences of a group of people with my single personal experience?"</p> Because what’s obvious to you, is not obvious to all.

Thanks, HMF. I just realized what was wrong with my above logic and wrote, I don’t know, 500 words about it. See the trackback above. (Snow days are good for blogs, yes?)

The gist of the argument is “Who am I to try to combat the experiences of a group of people with my single personal experience?”

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By: HMF http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/13/world_of_apu/comment-page-1/#comment-118182 HMF Wed, 14 Feb 2007 23:10:24 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4179#comment-118182 <p>This actually reminds of story, when I was in middle school, some kids started calling me "Gandhi." I once had a substitute teacher call me "Mahatna"</p> <p>I was more surprised at their stupidity to use him as an insult. But they did exactly what you said - pilfered their shallow, white-American brains for whatever desi/brown/Indian connection they could think of, and force it into an insult.</p> <p>Those "insults" really had no effect on me, because I knew who Gandhi really was, and what was more offensive was their lack of knowledge, rather than their attempts to dehumanize me.</p> <p>But there's no way I can get behind Apu in same way, regardless of how many times Lisa goes to him for advice.</p> This actually reminds of story, when I was in middle school, some kids started calling me “Gandhi.” I once had a substitute teacher call me “Mahatna”

I was more surprised at their stupidity to use him as an insult. But they did exactly what you said – pilfered their shallow, white-American brains for whatever desi/brown/Indian connection they could think of, and force it into an insult.

Those “insults” really had no effect on me, because I knew who Gandhi really was, and what was more offensive was their lack of knowledge, rather than their attempts to dehumanize me.

But there’s no way I can get behind Apu in same way, regardless of how many times Lisa goes to him for advice.

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By: HMF http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/13/world_of_apu/comment-page-1/#comment-118181 HMF Wed, 14 Feb 2007 22:56:44 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4179#comment-118181 <blockquote>Well, he's not just a simple immigrant-bashing stereotype HMF </blockquote> <p>There you people go throwing your personal views of Apu up there, which are fine and dandy, and respectable, but totally irrelevent. Your average white viewer isn't thinking to himself "Wow, he's such a respectable immigrant for setting up a successful business in a middle-American town, a real pillar for the American Dream!"</p> <blockquote>why is it that our society has allowed Apu has become a negative generalization of desis while a character like Groundskeeper Willie doesn't seem to have any recriminating effect on people of Scottish descent?" </blockquote> <p>This is an excellent point. I think it has to do with a lack of counterbalancing force. US Pop culture has Willie from the Simpsons, but it also has <a href = "http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112573/>William Wallace</a>, I believe these subconsciously communicate that WIllie from the Simpsons <i>is</i> a caricature, where as Apu doesn't get the same treatment. Maybe when Hollywood makes a movie on Krishnadevaraya or Chanakya, we can have a comparison to the Scottish character.</p> <blockquote>So is it because of the way Groening et al have portrayed Apu, or because Team Average Racist American would have found any available insult to hurl at the feared other, and Apu, being the only desi on television, was closest at hand?</blockquote> <p>I'd say it's both. His most salient features are accent, and convenience store owner. And while we as a community might relish the fact that its a gazillion dollar industry, I'd say the intent is clearly derogatory.</p> <p>But as you imply, removal of Apu wouldn't remove the problem, which is why I don't suggest it. I would only suggest making it well known that he is indeed a caricature. Because what's obvious to you, is not obvious to all.</p> Well, he’s not just a simple immigrant-bashing stereotype HMF

There you people go throwing your personal views of Apu up there, which are fine and dandy, and respectable, but totally irrelevent. Your average white viewer isn’t thinking to himself “Wow, he’s such a respectable immigrant for setting up a successful business in a middle-American town, a real pillar for the American Dream!”

why is it that our society has allowed Apu has become a negative generalization of desis while a character like Groundskeeper Willie doesn’t seem to have any recriminating effect on people of Scottish descent?”

This is an excellent point. I think it has to do with a lack of counterbalancing force. US Pop culture has Willie from the Simpsons, but it also has http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4179#comment-118148 <p>Perhaps the real question is "in a show like the Simpsons, which contains characters of a multiplicity of nationalities, histories, and stereotypes, why is it that our society has allowed Apu has become a negative generalization of desis while a character like Groundskeeper Willie doesn't seem to have any recriminating effect on people of Scottish descent?"</p> <p>For heaven's sake, Bumblebee Man is a lot more broadly drawn and can be viewed as much more offensive than Apu.</p> <p>So is it because of the way Groening et al have portrayed Apu, or because Team Average Racist American would have found any available insult to hurl at the feared other, and Apu, being the only desi on television, was closest at hand?</p> Perhaps the real question is “in a show like the Simpsons, which contains characters of a multiplicity of nationalities, histories, and stereotypes, why is it that our society has allowed Apu has become a negative generalization of desis while a character like Groundskeeper Willie doesn’t seem to have any recriminating effect on people of Scottish descent?”

For heaven’s sake, Bumblebee Man is a lot more broadly drawn and can be viewed as much more offensive than Apu.

So is it because of the way Groening et al have portrayed Apu, or because Team Average Racist American would have found any available insult to hurl at the feared other, and Apu, being the only desi on television, was closest at hand?

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By: Neal (with no 'e') http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/02/13/world_of_apu/comment-page-1/#comment-118138 Neal (with no 'e') Wed, 14 Feb 2007 21:32:18 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4179#comment-118138 <p>Well, he's not just a simple immigrant-bashing stereotype HMF (ok, at least he wasn't when I still watched The Simpsons, so I can't speak to anything past 2001 or so). He was a complicated character that the show's writers often used to comment on American attitudes towards immigration, multiculturalism, and religion. He was a smart guy, often portrayed as smarter and better-adjusted than most of the adults in Springfield. He was about the only character that Lisa (the show's other real intelligent outcast) could turn to for advice. And his work ethic was portrayed as FAR stronger than any of the -white- yellow characters.</p> <p>Some of my most favorite episodes of the Simpsons involved Apu, particularly the one about his arranged marriage.</p> <p>Again, this all reflects what the Simpsons was prior to it becoming "Homer fall down! FUNNY!!!!!!"</p> Well, he’s not just a simple immigrant-bashing stereotype HMF (ok, at least he wasn’t when I still watched The Simpsons, so I can’t speak to anything past 2001 or so). He was a complicated character that the show’s writers often used to comment on American attitudes towards immigration, multiculturalism, and religion. He was a smart guy, often portrayed as smarter and better-adjusted than most of the adults in Springfield. He was about the only character that Lisa (the show’s other real intelligent outcast) could turn to for advice. And his work ethic was portrayed as FAR stronger than any of the -white- yellow characters.

Some of my most favorite episodes of the Simpsons involved Apu, particularly the one about his arranged marriage.

Again, this all reflects what the Simpsons was prior to it becoming “Homer fall down! FUNNY!!!!!!”

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