Comments on: Shilpa wins, will anything change? http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/28/shilpa_wins_wil/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Mysay http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/28/shilpa_wins_wil/comment-page-2/#comment-119672 Mysay Sat, 24 Feb 2007 23:12:00 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4147#comment-119672 <p>She is so ugly like hell. She deserved what ever happened to her. And everyone made a big deal out of it for nothing. At the end, she is the that took advantage from it. U must have seen it that she didn't even feel in the house but when she came out, she saw everyone was talkin about it and she she made it like she suffered alot mentally and emotionally. She was fake and she is fake like everyone else in Bollywood. So what the hell. She is ugly like hell.</p> She is so ugly like hell. She deserved what ever happened to her. And everyone made a big deal out of it for nothing. At the end, she is the that took advantage from it. U must have seen it that she didn’t even feel in the house but when she came out, she saw everyone was talkin about it and she she made it like she suffered alot mentally and emotionally. She was fake and she is fake like everyone else in Bollywood. So what the hell. She is ugly like hell.

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By: Jai Singh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/28/shilpa_wins_wil/comment-page-2/#comment-117474 Jai Singh Sun, 11 Feb 2007 18:41:44 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4147#comment-117474 <blockquote>how can we talk about racialism when you look at the way we treat our own people?"</blockquote> <p>That's only applicable if Shilpa Shetty herself -- or the South Asians objecting to the way she was treated -- has "racist" attitudes towards South Asians of other backgrounds to herself.</p> <p>If this isn't the case (and there's no evidence to indicate that it is, in the case of Ms Shetty), then it's irrelevant. Unless you believe in the concept of "collective guilt", in which case our moral philosophies diverge quite radically and you have zero support from me.</p> <p>In any case, considering the fact that her tormentors displayed bigoted attitudes towards South Asians en masse, implying that we should not defend ourselves in such situations because some South Asians can be racist isn't exactly a constructive course of action. In fact, I'd describe it as self-destructive and misguided in the extreme, along with a classic example of South Asians shooting each other in the back in the face of adversaries who would be all too happy to watch us undermine each other.</p> how can we talk about racialism when you look at the way we treat our own people?”

That’s only applicable if Shilpa Shetty herself — or the South Asians objecting to the way she was treated — has “racist” attitudes towards South Asians of other backgrounds to herself.

If this isn’t the case (and there’s no evidence to indicate that it is, in the case of Ms Shetty), then it’s irrelevant. Unless you believe in the concept of “collective guilt”, in which case our moral philosophies diverge quite radically and you have zero support from me.

In any case, considering the fact that her tormentors displayed bigoted attitudes towards South Asians en masse, implying that we should not defend ourselves in such situations because some South Asians can be racist isn’t exactly a constructive course of action. In fact, I’d describe it as self-destructive and misguided in the extreme, along with a classic example of South Asians shooting each other in the back in the face of adversaries who would be all too happy to watch us undermine each other.

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By: Manju http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/28/shilpa_wins_wil/comment-page-2/#comment-117393 Manju Sat, 10 Feb 2007 20:06:05 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4147#comment-117393 <blockquote>how can we talk about racialism when you look at the way we treat our own people?"</blockquote> <p>as an american, i officially renounce my previous participation in the anti-aparthied movement.</p> how can we talk about racialism when you look at the way we treat our own people?”

as an american, i officially renounce my previous participation in the anti-aparthied movement.

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By: vivek http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/28/shilpa_wins_wil/comment-page-2/#comment-117383 vivek Sat, 10 Feb 2007 19:27:58 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4147#comment-117383 <p>My grandmother asked me to explain the concept of reality tv to her, which I did. Then she wanted to know what had happened to Shilpa Shetty, and I did my best. Then she said:</p> <p>"So after all of this talk of racialism she's nicely brought back three crores; how can we talk about racialism when you look at the way we treat our own people?"</p> My grandmother asked me to explain the concept of reality tv to her, which I did. Then she wanted to know what had happened to Shilpa Shetty, and I did my best. Then she said:

“So after all of this talk of racialism she’s nicely brought back three crores; how can we talk about racialism when you look at the way we treat our own people?”

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By: Jai Singh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/28/shilpa_wins_wil/comment-page-2/#comment-117360 Jai Singh Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:04:58 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4147#comment-117360 <p><b>Doordarshan,</b></p> <blockquote>Why do the brits treat you so much worse than the real persians, spaniards and jews?? Please do explain. Inquiring minds want to know. :)</blockquote> <p>It's not rocket science, but since you apparently need it spelt out for you in painstaking detail, here's the earth-shaking answer:</p> <p><b>Because it's absolutely nothing to do with physical appearance and everything to do with Britain's colonial history with the subcontinent.</b></p> <p>Perhaps a staggeringly revolutionary and innovative concept for you, I know, but there it is.</p> Doordarshan,

Why do the brits treat you so much worse than the real persians, spaniards and jews?? Please do explain. Inquiring minds want to know. :)

It’s not rocket science, but since you apparently need it spelt out for you in painstaking detail, here’s the earth-shaking answer:

Because it’s absolutely nothing to do with physical appearance and everything to do with Britain’s colonial history with the subcontinent.

Perhaps a staggeringly revolutionary and innovative concept for you, I know, but there it is.

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By: Doordarshan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/28/shilpa_wins_wil/comment-page-2/#comment-116752 Doordarshan Wed, 07 Feb 2007 03:40:18 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4147#comment-116752 <p>BTW, Shilpa Shetty is a south indian, who belongs to the meat-eating sudra caste (as another poster has revealed) of the ghost-worshiping Tulu community. She has shown more innate class, dignity and spine relating to whites than most any desi living abroad. What does that say about the usual colonial and brahminical stereotypes that are even today propagated by so many desis, including many right here?</p> BTW, Shilpa Shetty is a south indian, who belongs to the meat-eating sudra caste (as another poster has revealed) of the ghost-worshiping Tulu community. She has shown more innate class, dignity and spine relating to whites than most any desi living abroad. What does that say about the usual colonial and brahminical stereotypes that are even today propagated by so many desis, including many right here?

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By: Doordarshan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/28/shilpa_wins_wil/comment-page-2/#comment-116739 Doordarshan Wed, 07 Feb 2007 02:09:48 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4147#comment-116739 <blockquote>many English people (including, it seems, some "C-list celebrities") really do think that they can casually disparage, attack, undermine and dismiss South Asians with impunity. Those of us who live in the UK have to deal with this crap every day -- at school, at college, at work, on the streets</blockquote> <p>But, but, Jai Singh, haven't you been reminding us ad nauseam (rubbing it in actually) that UK desis, being majority punjabis from Pakistan and to a lesser extent sikhs from India, are a different breed than american desis? That you all tend to look like latins, israelis and persians rather than desis from points east and south of Punjab? So what gives? Why do the brits treat you <b>so much worse</b> than the real persians, spaniards and jews?? Please do explain. Inquiring minds want to know. :)</p> many English people (including, it seems, some “C-list celebrities”) really do think that they can casually disparage, attack, undermine and dismiss South Asians with impunity. Those of us who live in the UK have to deal with this crap every day — at school, at college, at work, on the streets

But, but, Jai Singh, haven’t you been reminding us ad nauseam (rubbing it in actually) that UK desis, being majority punjabis from Pakistan and to a lesser extent sikhs from India, are a different breed than american desis? That you all tend to look like latins, israelis and persians rather than desis from points east and south of Punjab? So what gives? Why do the brits treat you so much worse than the real persians, spaniards and jews?? Please do explain. Inquiring minds want to know. :)

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By: Jai Singh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/28/shilpa_wins_wil/comment-page-2/#comment-116385 Jai Singh Sun, 04 Feb 2007 20:31:22 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4147#comment-116385 <p><b>Amda,</b></p> <blockquote>I absolutely love the way Shilpa handled this, but I do question her consciousness of the poverty in India. </blockquote> <p>She quietly does a lot of AIDS-awareness charity work in India.</p> <blockquote>I wonder what her beginnings were as far as social class is concerned, </blockquote> <p>Her own family background is fairly privileged and wealthy (private school-educated, successful businesspeople parents, both ex-models, mother marketing director etc etc).</p> <blockquote>Just because you come from the slums, is that a REAL excuse for not being socially conscious, intelligent or polite?</blockquote> <p>Hell no, and that's my point too. Coming from an "underprivileged background" isn't an excuse (or a license) to be an obnoxious jerk towards others, especially if you ain't poverty-stricken anymore.</p> <p><b>Deepa,</b></p> <blockquote>Well put, Jai.</blockquote> <p>Thank you. It's basically a matter of some people from a certain background feeling threatened by people from a certain other background and with a certain demeanour because the latter a) upsets their own tunnel-visioned, ignorant, and frankly patronising preconceptions of what people from the latter group are "supposed" to be like (along with their wider cultural/social environment), and b) because it threatens their own notions and assumptions of inherent superiority.</p> <p>In a nutshell:</p> <p>"Kwik-e-Mart" type in the West, or poverty-stricken villager over in India: Good. They can handle that. Doctor/Lawyer/Management Consultant/Investment Banker/poised, glamorous, very well-spoken Bollywood actress: Bad. An uppity Paki with ideas above their station, who needs to be brought "back down to earth".</p> <p><b>Kush,</b></p> <blockquote>I read that Shilpa's mummy wants her to someone special soon in UK. She will be there till March. This is your window of opportunity.</blockquote> <p>Heh heh, your badmaashi just doesn't end, does it ? :) Actually I read that too, although Shilpa probably wants a multimillionaire type.</p> <p>Maybe you should volunteer, as Sepia Mutiny's resident rock god.....</p> <blockquote>things she has to be careful: "over exposure and subsequent backlash" </blockquote> <p>Oh, I agree completely. There's a serious risk of her being raised up and then torn down by the very public who originally exalted her. However, her career's now in the hands of famous British PR guru Max Clifford, so hopefully she's in safe hands. Apparently she's now received between 250-300 job offers, including 3 shows in London's West End (our equivalent of Broadway), a role opposite Johnny Depp in <i>Shantaraam</i>, and another possible role opposite Hugh Grant (she's meeting him tomorrow at the premiere of his new movie in London). She's also been invited to meet the Queen (I don't know when), along with a special reception being held for her at the House of Commons on Wednesday, and apparently Tony Blair also wants to meet her.</p> <p>Jo O'Meara was interviewed again today, this time on Sky News. Article <a href="http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13566528,00.html">here</a>, video <a href="http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/videoplayer/0,,30100-omeara_040207,00.html">here </a>(will require Windows Media Player). Jo claims she's been feeling suicidal, and has been having panic attacks as a result of what's happened. Quite a turnaround from her initial defiance and complete lack of remorse when she was interviewed by Davina immediately upon being evicted from the CBB house last week, even when she was shown the video footage of her abhorrent behaviour towards Shilpa.</p> <p>Personally, I think that Jo, Jade and Danielle don't necessarily regret their mistreatment of Shilpa (despite what they're saying) due to sympathy towards her -- <b>they regret the fact that they got busted for it </b>(and the subsequent public backlash towards them).</p> <p>There was also an interesting article in today's <i>Daily Express </i>which I recommend you check out -- <a href="http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/news_detail.html?sku=1156">full article here </a>-- it suggests that this may be a turning point in British television and possibly within wider UK society as a whole, as a rejection of "chav culture" -- the UK-equivalent of "trailer trash" behaviour (and the glorification of "celebrities" who engage in such conduct) -- which has become endemic here in the last few years. Quote: "Four weeks ago she was unknown in Britain to all but Bollywood film fans. Two weeks ago, she was at the centre of a diplomatic incident involving racial abuse. Today Shilpa Shetty is being given the credit for creating a new age of elegance. It’s becoming known as the Shilpa effect.....Clifford says: “We are entering a new age of elegance. I have never seen such an extraordinary reaction to a person as I have to her.” Can it be more than just clever public relations spin? Possibly not. Fed up with the Jade Goody-driven celebrity chav culture as shown on television and in magazines, there is evidence that the public may have had enough."</p> Amda,

I absolutely love the way Shilpa handled this, but I do question her consciousness of the poverty in India.

She quietly does a lot of AIDS-awareness charity work in India.

I wonder what her beginnings were as far as social class is concerned,

Her own family background is fairly privileged and wealthy (private school-educated, successful businesspeople parents, both ex-models, mother marketing director etc etc).

Just because you come from the slums, is that a REAL excuse for not being socially conscious, intelligent or polite?

Hell no, and that’s my point too. Coming from an “underprivileged background” isn’t an excuse (or a license) to be an obnoxious jerk towards others, especially if you ain’t poverty-stricken anymore.

Deepa,

Well put, Jai.

Thank you. It’s basically a matter of some people from a certain background feeling threatened by people from a certain other background and with a certain demeanour because the latter a) upsets their own tunnel-visioned, ignorant, and frankly patronising preconceptions of what people from the latter group are “supposed” to be like (along with their wider cultural/social environment), and b) because it threatens their own notions and assumptions of inherent superiority.

In a nutshell:

“Kwik-e-Mart” type in the West, or poverty-stricken villager over in India: Good. They can handle that. Doctor/Lawyer/Management Consultant/Investment Banker/poised, glamorous, very well-spoken Bollywood actress: Bad. An uppity Paki with ideas above their station, who needs to be brought “back down to earth”.

Kush,

I read that Shilpa’s mummy wants her to someone special soon in UK. She will be there till March. This is your window of opportunity.

Heh heh, your badmaashi just doesn’t end, does it ? :) Actually I read that too, although Shilpa probably wants a multimillionaire type.

Maybe you should volunteer, as Sepia Mutiny’s resident rock god…..

things she has to be careful: “over exposure and subsequent backlash”

Oh, I agree completely. There’s a serious risk of her being raised up and then torn down by the very public who originally exalted her. However, her career’s now in the hands of famous British PR guru Max Clifford, so hopefully she’s in safe hands. Apparently she’s now received between 250-300 job offers, including 3 shows in London’s West End (our equivalent of Broadway), a role opposite Johnny Depp in Shantaraam, and another possible role opposite Hugh Grant (she’s meeting him tomorrow at the premiere of his new movie in London). She’s also been invited to meet the Queen (I don’t know when), along with a special reception being held for her at the House of Commons on Wednesday, and apparently Tony Blair also wants to meet her.

Jo O’Meara was interviewed again today, this time on Sky News. Article here, video here (will require Windows Media Player). Jo claims she’s been feeling suicidal, and has been having panic attacks as a result of what’s happened. Quite a turnaround from her initial defiance and complete lack of remorse when she was interviewed by Davina immediately upon being evicted from the CBB house last week, even when she was shown the video footage of her abhorrent behaviour towards Shilpa.

Personally, I think that Jo, Jade and Danielle don’t necessarily regret their mistreatment of Shilpa (despite what they’re saying) due to sympathy towards her — they regret the fact that they got busted for it (and the subsequent public backlash towards them).

There was also an interesting article in today’s Daily Express which I recommend you check out — full article here – it suggests that this may be a turning point in British television and possibly within wider UK society as a whole, as a rejection of “chav culture” — the UK-equivalent of “trailer trash” behaviour (and the glorification of “celebrities” who engage in such conduct) — which has become endemic here in the last few years. Quote: “Four weeks ago she was unknown in Britain to all but Bollywood film fans. Two weeks ago, she was at the centre of a diplomatic incident involving racial abuse. Today Shilpa Shetty is being given the credit for creating a new age of elegance. It’s becoming known as the Shilpa effect…..Clifford says: “We are entering a new age of elegance. I have never seen such an extraordinary reaction to a person as I have to her.” Can it be more than just clever public relations spin? Possibly not. Fed up with the Jade Goody-driven celebrity chav culture as shown on television and in magazines, there is evidence that the public may have had enough.”

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By: Deepa http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/28/shilpa_wins_wil/comment-page-2/#comment-116368 Deepa Sun, 04 Feb 2007 18:26:10 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4147#comment-116368 <blockquote>Do you think that someone like Liz Hurley would have been treated like that if she'd been in the CBB house ? Of course not. She's also beautiful, wealthy, obviously very upper-class-sounding in her way of speaking, and may be perceived to have certain "airs and graces" -- exactly the same things that "hoity toity" Shilpa was being accused of. But there's one major difference between Ms Hurley and Ms Shetty. Jade, Jo, and their supporters within British society will not try to bring down a white woman from that background and with that kind of persona. But they will not tolerate a South Asian equivalent. They do not think they're the equal of Liz Hurley, but -- regardless of how poorly educated, ignorant, and generally uncouth they may be themselves -- they DO think they're the equal of (and quite possibly superior to) ANY South Asian.</blockquote> <p>Well put, Jai.</p> Do you think that someone like Liz Hurley would have been treated like that if she’d been in the CBB house ? Of course not. She’s also beautiful, wealthy, obviously very upper-class-sounding in her way of speaking, and may be perceived to have certain “airs and graces” — exactly the same things that “hoity toity” Shilpa was being accused of. But there’s one major difference between Ms Hurley and Ms Shetty. Jade, Jo, and their supporters within British society will not try to bring down a white woman from that background and with that kind of persona. But they will not tolerate a South Asian equivalent. They do not think they’re the equal of Liz Hurley, but — regardless of how poorly educated, ignorant, and generally uncouth they may be themselves — they DO think they’re the equal of (and quite possibly superior to) ANY South Asian.

Well put, Jai.

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By: amda http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/28/shilpa_wins_wil/comment-page-2/#comment-116320 amda Sun, 04 Feb 2007 01:32:17 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4147#comment-116320 <p>the class issue makes this even more interesting. The minorities in the house, Jermaine and Shilpa, I saw as the most traveled, dignified and cultured compared to the other guests. Especially Jermaine, he grew up in a rural/low-middle class setting, but his family progressed to live a very high standard of life. Nonetheless, high level of class/dignity must have started in the very beginning. The same with Shilpa, she comes across as very humble. She indulged in aspects of everyday living, like cooking, that most idolized celebs would scoff at. She enjoyed catering to people on a domestic level, which was facinating to watch. She made the statement "Even if I were a maid, I'd want to be the best maid..." For someone like her to even make the relation as far as job duties were concerned, impressed me. I guess I'm impressionable.</p> <p>I wonder what her beginnings were as far as social class is concerned, and if this trans-class experience is what made the two of them capable of standing out. They seem so well rounded, but does it really take being 'high class' to be so? Just because you come from the slums, is that a REAL excuse for not being socially conscious, intelligent or polite?</p> <p>And that is a whole nother issue all together: class, wealth and celebrity status.</p> the class issue makes this even more interesting. The minorities in the house, Jermaine and Shilpa, I saw as the most traveled, dignified and cultured compared to the other guests. Especially Jermaine, he grew up in a rural/low-middle class setting, but his family progressed to live a very high standard of life. Nonetheless, high level of class/dignity must have started in the very beginning. The same with Shilpa, she comes across as very humble. She indulged in aspects of everyday living, like cooking, that most idolized celebs would scoff at. She enjoyed catering to people on a domestic level, which was facinating to watch. She made the statement “Even if I were a maid, I’d want to be the best maid…” For someone like her to even make the relation as far as job duties were concerned, impressed me. I guess I’m impressionable.

I wonder what her beginnings were as far as social class is concerned, and if this trans-class experience is what made the two of them capable of standing out. They seem so well rounded, but does it really take being ‘high class’ to be so? Just because you come from the slums, is that a REAL excuse for not being socially conscious, intelligent or polite?

And that is a whole nother issue all together: class, wealth and celebrity status.

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