Comments on: Hungry children failed by state and market http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/24/hungry_children/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Ennis http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/24/hungry_children/comment-page-2/#comment-115206 Ennis Fri, 26 Jan 2007 18:24:33 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4139#comment-115206 <blockquote>I only see statistics for children under 5. Not half the children in India.</blockquote> <p>I think the statement is usually that half the children under 5 or under 6 in India are malnourished. That's the age at which it tends to be measured. You're right, perhaps they're magically more nourished by 12, I dunno.</p> I only see statistics for children under 5. Not half the children in India.

I think the statement is usually that half the children under 5 or under 6 in India are malnourished. That’s the age at which it tends to be measured. You’re right, perhaps they’re magically more nourished by 12, I dunno.

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By: Totally Random http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/24/hungry_children/comment-page-2/#comment-115183 Totally Random Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:38:40 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4139#comment-115183 <blockquote><blockquote>You seem to think that half of indian children starving is not a national failure. That says a lot about you. It should be considered a national crisis. </blockquote> I would really like to see some proof that half of Indian children are starving. Which report gives this information. </blockquote> <p>I only see statistics for children under 5. Not half the children in India.</p>
You seem to think that half of indian children starving is not a national failure. That says a lot about you. It should be considered a national crisis.
I would really like to see some proof that half of Indian children are starving. Which report gives this information.

I only see statistics for children under 5. Not half the children in India.

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By: brown http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/24/hungry_children/comment-page-2/#comment-115174 brown Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:13:57 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4139#comment-115174 <p>Ennis #74,</p> <p>Although not the Unicef report you are talking about, here is a <a href="http://siteresources.worldbank.org/SOUTHASIAEXT/Resources/223546-1147272668285/IndiaUndernourishedChildrenFinal.pdf">world bank report </a>that I linked above that provides some good statistics.</p> Ennis #74,

Although not the Unicef report you are talking about, here is a world bank report that I linked above that provides some good statistics.

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By: Ennis http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/24/hungry_children/comment-page-2/#comment-115163 Ennis Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:00:20 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4139#comment-115163 <p>Break it up guys. Focus on your disagreements, but don't make it personal. And that goes for both of you, Quizman too.</p> Break it up guys. Focus on your disagreements, but don’t make it personal. And that goes for both of you, Quizman too.

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By: Doordarshan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/24/hungry_children/comment-page-2/#comment-115162 Doordarshan Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:49:48 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4139#comment-115162 <blockquote>Where did that come from? You don't know me at all</blockquote> <p>That came from your opinions expressed here, where else? Why do we need to know you personally to know where you stand on this issue? Thats just silly.</p> <blockquote>I haven't seen any creative solutions from you on this forum either. </blockquote> <p>You seem to be more interested in excuses than in creative solutions. A solution to this crime against humanity is too "darn complicated" for indians, according to you. That sort of attitude is the reason why India remains so hungry and impoverished. What "creative solution" to the distribution of food, water, electricity etc to all citizens have other nations successfully employed that India is unable to duplicate? This is not rocket science. Its a failure of will.</p> <blockquote>India has totally failed in this regard to alleviate chronic hunger and the worst forms of poverty. However, he is totally wrong in assigning the blame . . . just like a typical lefty.</blockquote> <p>At least you recognize that India has failed. So many indians just refuse to accept that. Whats "typical lefty" about blaming the corrupt, incompetent government, the cruel, heartless culture, the apathetic media and so on about this failure?</p> <p>Since you are a proud right-winger explain why right wing and entrepreneurial Gujarat is more malnourished than left wing Kerala despite being far more industrialized?</p> <p>The stubborn ideologues of both left and right are wrong. Every developed nation on earth has found some balance between capitalism and socialism. Every civilized nation has a safety net for its citizens. You dont starve in Japan, Sweden or America if you you lose your job. India to its shame abandons its citizens to hunger, beggary, illiteracy, lack of sanitation, clean water and so on. Thats criminal negligence. It makes India a failed state.</p> Where did that come from? You don’t know me at all

That came from your opinions expressed here, where else? Why do we need to know you personally to know where you stand on this issue? Thats just silly.

I haven’t seen any creative solutions from you on this forum either.

You seem to be more interested in excuses than in creative solutions. A solution to this crime against humanity is too “darn complicated” for indians, according to you. That sort of attitude is the reason why India remains so hungry and impoverished. What “creative solution” to the distribution of food, water, electricity etc to all citizens have other nations successfully employed that India is unable to duplicate? This is not rocket science. Its a failure of will.

India has totally failed in this regard to alleviate chronic hunger and the worst forms of poverty. However, he is totally wrong in assigning the blame . . . just like a typical lefty.

At least you recognize that India has failed. So many indians just refuse to accept that. Whats “typical lefty” about blaming the corrupt, incompetent government, the cruel, heartless culture, the apathetic media and so on about this failure?

Since you are a proud right-winger explain why right wing and entrepreneurial Gujarat is more malnourished than left wing Kerala despite being far more industrialized?

The stubborn ideologues of both left and right are wrong. Every developed nation on earth has found some balance between capitalism and socialism. Every civilized nation has a safety net for its citizens. You dont starve in Japan, Sweden or America if you you lose your job. India to its shame abandons its citizens to hunger, beggary, illiteracy, lack of sanitation, clean water and so on. Thats criminal negligence. It makes India a failed state.

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By: Metric System http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/24/hungry_children/comment-page-2/#comment-115144 Metric System Fri, 26 Jan 2007 07:48:38 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4139#comment-115144 <blockquote>Its people like you, making excuses, the chalta hai attitude, that are the root cause of India's problems. Population has increased worldwide. Why are other nations able to feed their children but not India? Your reasoning seems to be that half of indian children are not starving, so India has not been a failure. That is so....contemptible.</blockquote> <p>Doordarshan is right though, India has totally failed in this regard to alleviate chronic hunger and the worst forms of poverty. However, he is totally wrong in assigning the blame . . . just like a typical lefty. Like the CCR song "FOrtunate Son" . . . <i>and when you ask them, how much should we give, oooh the only answer is more MORE MORE!</i> his/her solution will only be more communism/socialism, ensuring another good 50 years of economic and social stagnation. And then, when things get worse, he will have more talking points to blame everything on casteism and markets and capitalism and not enough collectivization.</p> Its people like you, making excuses, the chalta hai attitude, that are the root cause of India’s problems. Population has increased worldwide. Why are other nations able to feed their children but not India? Your reasoning seems to be that half of indian children are not starving, so India has not been a failure. That is so….contemptible.

Doordarshan is right though, India has totally failed in this regard to alleviate chronic hunger and the worst forms of poverty. However, he is totally wrong in assigning the blame . . . just like a typical lefty. Like the CCR song “FOrtunate Son” . . . and when you ask them, how much should we give, oooh the only answer is more MORE MORE! his/her solution will only be more communism/socialism, ensuring another good 50 years of economic and social stagnation. And then, when things get worse, he will have more talking points to blame everything on casteism and markets and capitalism and not enough collectivization.

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By: Quizman http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/24/hungry_children/comment-page-2/#comment-115115 Quizman Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:10:24 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4139#comment-115115 <p>Doordarshan: <i>Its <b>people like you, making excuses, the chalta hai attitude</b>, that are the root cause of India's problems. Population has increased worldwide. Why are other nations able to feed their children but not India? Your reasoning seems to be that half of indian children are not starving, so India has not been a failure. That is so....contemptible.</i></p> <p>Where did that come from? You don't know me at all.</p> <p>My angst is because of the fact that I have spent many hours working on grassroots education as a volunteer with a NGO. I've realized that every school in every village has to be tackled differently. That there is no magic wand, as you seem to want. So fine, you feel sorry. You get angry and shout slogans and accuse others like me of making excuses. I haven't seen any creative solutions from you on this forum either.</p> Doordarshan: Its people like you, making excuses, the chalta hai attitude, that are the root cause of India’s problems. Population has increased worldwide. Why are other nations able to feed their children but not India? Your reasoning seems to be that half of indian children are not starving, so India has not been a failure. That is so….contemptible.

Where did that come from? You don’t know me at all.

My angst is because of the fact that I have spent many hours working on grassroots education as a volunteer with a NGO. I’ve realized that every school in every village has to be tackled differently. That there is no magic wand, as you seem to want. So fine, you feel sorry. You get angry and shout slogans and accuse others like me of making excuses. I haven’t seen any creative solutions from you on this forum either.

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By: Ennis http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/24/hungry_children/comment-page-2/#comment-115109 Ennis Fri, 26 Jan 2007 00:46:46 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4139#comment-115109 <p>The numbers are from <a href="http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/india_india_statistics.html#23">UNICEF</a>:</p> <blockquote> % of under-fives (1996-2005*) suffering from: underweight, moderate & severe: 47 % of under-fives (1996-2005*) suffering from: underweight, severe: 18 % of under-fives (1996-2005*) suffering from: wasting, moderate & severe: 16 % of under-fives (1996-2005*) suffering from: stunting, moderate & severe: 46 [<a href="http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/india_india_statistics.html#23">Link</a>]</blockquote> <p>I can't find the report - it came out last year. I suspect the GOI also has similar numbers of its own, otherwise they would be disagreeing.</p> The numbers are from UNICEF:

% of under-fives (1996-2005*) suffering from: underweight, moderate & severe: 47 % of under-fives (1996-2005*) suffering from: underweight, severe: 18 % of under-fives (1996-2005*) suffering from: wasting, moderate & severe: 16 % of under-fives (1996-2005*) suffering from: stunting, moderate & severe: 46 [Link]

I can’t find the report – it came out last year. I suspect the GOI also has similar numbers of its own, otherwise they would be disagreeing.

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By: Totally Random http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/24/hungry_children/comment-page-2/#comment-115102 Totally Random Fri, 26 Jan 2007 00:13:52 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4139#comment-115102 <blockquote>You seem to think that half of indian children starving is not a national failure. That says a lot about you. It should be considered a national crisis. </blockquote> <p>I would really like to see some proof that half of Indian children are starving. Which report gives this information.</p> You seem to think that half of indian children starving is not a national failure. That says a lot about you. It should be considered a national crisis.

I would really like to see some proof that half of Indian children are starving. Which report gives this information.

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By: Doordarshan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/24/hungry_children/comment-page-2/#comment-115101 Doordarshan Fri, 26 Jan 2007 00:09:44 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4139#comment-115101 <blockquote>Fine, shed your tears. These problems cannot be solved at a marco level with grandiose 5 or 10 year plans or slogans. There is no universal panacea to such issues. The lesson that we learn is to find out why the state or the private sector have succeeded in certain segments and try to replicate those in other areas - if applicable. Else, a creative solution needs to be created specifically for that area/community/ etc.</blockquote> <p>These problems have already been solved by <b>many</b> other nations. What resources are indians lacking that make this problem so "darn complicated" to you? Are indians just too dumb or what?</p> <blockquote>Making normative statements that the "state has failed" or that the "market has failed" (within this context) just shows intellectual laziness.</blockquote> <p>You just refuse to accept that India's massive hunger problem is a national failure.</p> <blockquote>So it was not like 100% of Indian govt workers are corrupt or that the entire private sector is ruthless. Clearly, some folks in some places got it right.</blockquote> <p>You seem to think that half of indian children starving is not a national failure. That says a lot about you. It should be considered a national crisis.</p> <p>Its people like you, making excuses, the chalta hai attitude, that are the root cause of India's problems. Population has increased worldwide. Why are other nations able to feed their children but not India? Your reasoning seems to be that half of indian children are <b>not</b> starving, so India has not been a failure. That is so....contemptible.</p> <blockquote>See what I mean by regional trends etc?</blockquote> <p>All regions of India are severely malnourished. Some more than others. Why are Gujarat and Maharashtra more malnourished than Manipur and Kerala?</p> Fine, shed your tears. These problems cannot be solved at a marco level with grandiose 5 or 10 year plans or slogans. There is no universal panacea to such issues. The lesson that we learn is to find out why the state or the private sector have succeeded in certain segments and try to replicate those in other areas – if applicable. Else, a creative solution needs to be created specifically for that area/community/ etc.

These problems have already been solved by many other nations. What resources are indians lacking that make this problem so “darn complicated” to you? Are indians just too dumb or what?

Making normative statements that the “state has failed” or that the “market has failed” (within this context) just shows intellectual laziness.

You just refuse to accept that India’s massive hunger problem is a national failure.

So it was not like 100% of Indian govt workers are corrupt or that the entire private sector is ruthless. Clearly, some folks in some places got it right.

You seem to think that half of indian children starving is not a national failure. That says a lot about you. It should be considered a national crisis.

Its people like you, making excuses, the chalta hai attitude, that are the root cause of India’s problems. Population has increased worldwide. Why are other nations able to feed their children but not India? Your reasoning seems to be that half of indian children are not starving, so India has not been a failure. That is so….contemptible.

See what I mean by regional trends etc?

All regions of India are severely malnourished. Some more than others. Why are Gujarat and Maharashtra more malnourished than Manipur and Kerala?

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