Because, things have changed…besides I didn’t register surprise in the comment, merely an observation. And comparing the Indian diaspora in kenya to the british in India is a little absurd. Indians, as well as Indigenous Kenyans, were relegated to different areas of cities. To see that things have changed is woth noting.

What, is Kenya an African country or not? Isn’t Kenya mostly black, except for (recent or more distant) immigrants from non-African countries?

Kenya may be, but Mombasa is mostly populated with people of Arab decent…i.e. the swahili who are a result of intermarriage betweent the arab traders and the local Bantu tribes back in the day…so they’re not quite black even, they’re more of a “wheatish brown”

I don’t get it. With most of the Africans (blacks) there speaking Swahili, why wouldn’t the place have a swahili feel to the place? Swahili is one of the most spoken language across Africa, and it isn’t a bunch of India-origined people speaking Swahili that makes it so. Swahili is African, influenced by arabic and other languages.And Kenya is an African country (despite wishes/attempts to make it otherwise). Certainly there are issues with arabization vs. african origin, but since when is Swahili NOT an African language?

ummmmm first of all the language is Kiswahili. Common mistake. The coastal people are the Swahili. And MANY places where Kiswahili is spoken doesn’t have a “Swahili” feel to it. You do understand that while many Kenyans speak Kiswahili, it is often the 3rd or 4th language they learn because unlike in TZ, the medium of instruction at Kenyan schools is english. Kiswahili is taught as a subject much like french, spanish etc are taught as subject languages in the states. It was, is and continues to be a trading language in Kenya (rapidly being replaced by sheng).

I also think you’re confusing issues. No one said Swahili is NOT an African language, and no one is insiuating that Kenya is not an African country (you need to check yourself there hun)

Once the British abandoned their colonial holdings, they no longer provided the financial and military support to maintain Indian dominance over the indigenous populations.

There were several indian families actively involved in the struggle against the British. Indian lawyers who helped kenyatta get out of jail, Indian run papers that published hies stuff, Indian families that housed the mau mau…sure some were on the other side, but as you point out, many were brought as indentured labourers too…and while I agree that there are many racisit desis, I think it works all ways…and most desis there now are a lot more open minded.

With regard to Kenya, there is so much nostalgia for colonial Kenya

I really don’t think you’re getting what this is all about. It’s not a nostalgia for colonialism, simply a nostalgia for where you/your family has been. If a jewish person was to try and visit their old house in Germany, and commented on how things have changed, would you consider that a nostalgia for nazi germany? Chill out.

He eventually found something that might have been the place, but he wasn’t sure, as the family moved when he was still quite young, and as the neighbourhood is now mostly (or exclusively?) black African. And yet, as the pictures convey, there is still such as Swahili/Indian feel to the place. <<

Why would it be surprising that a neighborhood in Kenya is mostly or exclusively black African? What, is Kenya an African country or not? Isn’t Kenya mostly black, except for (recent or more distant) immigrants from non-African countries?

I don’t get it. With most of the Africans (blacks) there speaking Swahili, why wouldn’t the place have a swahili feel to the place? Swahili is one of the most spoken language across Africa, and it isn’t a bunch of India-origined people speaking Swahili that makes it so. Swahili is African, influenced by arabic and other languages. And Kenya is an African country (despite wishes/attempts to make it otherwise). Certainly there are issues with arabization vs. african origin, but since when is Swahili NOT an African language?

Perhaps I should be surprised that it wasn’t claimed that Africans immigrated to Kenya, invading the land of the Indian people?

Why attempt to minimalize the culture, history, situation of Africans of the Swahili language/culture, in the country of Kenya? I think a lot of people are just carrying on the biases (and distorted history) of their parents, but really as adults shouldn’t you have gotten some education (and been able to see with you own eyes) to the contrary? People aren’t commenting based on what is factual, real, historical, true, they are speaking based upon the perspectives of their parents.

Politically, one can understand these attitudes in relation to the problems in Fiji. The Fijian people are being minimalized in their own country by Indians attempting to rewrite history and turn them into second-class citizens.

Quite often the British used Indian people to serve as ‘caretakers’ in their colonial systems. Their caste mindsets would ensure they would maintain a system of white on top, and black on the bottom, as long as they could maintain their own place comfortably as overseers. Once the British abandoned their colonial holdings, they no longer provided the financial and military support to maintain Indian dominance over the indigenous populations. Those populations fought off the British, so why would it be acceptable for Indians castes systems to remain in place?

Instead of perpetuating historical lies, and culturally-convenient perspectives, one can imagine all the opportunities Indians have to learn, raise their socio-political consciousness, with better information and a hopefully more honest willingness to go beyond ‘traditional’ falsehoods.

With regard to Kenya, there is so much nostalgia for colonial Kenya and so little knowledge about the history of Kenya (Tanzania, Zanzibar) and Africa as a whole. It is sad to think that your parents, or you, spent anytime there but learned nothing of the history of the people into whose country you came. It seems instead a fake history was created to obscure some things that folks may not want to remember about the reality of their existence in the place.

One of the biggest chances here, is to not see the Africans as ‘visitors’ to Kenya, but understand the role of Indians in migrating to Kenya under British colonialism in the same way one may understand British colonialism over Indians in India. How would you react to a white British person returning to India and musing about how the neighborhood has changed with so many Indians there now?

The attitudes seem really destructive, and just well, sad.

In war torn Congo, it was a stop on my Cape to Cairo roadtrip, there was this group of Indians that were providing medical relief to injured civilians. Blew my mind because it is an area that…lets put it this way, it doesnÂ’t take much to get you killed there, but these brave souls didnÂ’t care! Doctors without borders indeed! I gave them all the chevro and gaathias (sp?) my mum had sent with me. There are brown people everywhere.

I have some shaky memories of the white sands of Mombasa from my prepubescent days. A school trip led by the school padre, a bunch of boys tooling around the ocean – my first taste of salty ocean water -acckkk- sank a dugout by tipping it over – trespassed into a glass-bottomed 16 footer – ahh to be a boy once again – wait a minute, i still do all that hehe – but trouble in paradise.

saw my first topless women and didnt know how to react – got a ribbing from stephen about me needing to grow up and be mature – of course stephen was all cool and suave walking around that much exposed flesh – and then tom came back running telling me about this white guy who’s sitting out there all naked – he’s got a big pink penis flopped to the side – mr k got disturbed at that, and especially so when tom said naked-man has called him over. but that was the most off color it got. i of course didnt know what to make of all this.

i’ve learnt since then that parts of mombasa were especially popular with german and american men looking for local boys for sex – but i hope it isnt true any more.

yeah, iquitos and in the middle of the amazon was not where i expected to find brownies.. i loved being in peru..and other countries of south america.. we tend to blend in ‘easily’..due to our skin tone…and speaking spanish helped.. i think most thought i was peruvian…until they saw my mom next to me who was wearing salwar/chandlo .. keeping it real.

P.S. What is this book Preston is about to write? Can someone provide some details so that I can be prepared for it at the bookstore etc. Thanks.

Many of the indians found in so many places today were taken there as indentured servants or camp followers of the British Empire. Previous to this diaspora indians were carried off in large numbers to the middle-east and central asia as slaves of the conquering muslims. Then there are the millions of gypsies who are supposed to have originated in northwest India, and have been the most despised and persecuted people of Europe for centuries. Many of these gypsies ended up in the Americas centuries ago, especially South America, where their look constitutes part of the diverse Latino look.

The Indian diaspora(20-25 million worldwide) is minuscule for the size of South Asia.

Thats true. Europeans have by far the largest numbers living (very dominantly) outside Europe. Followed by africans. There are around 100 million people in the Americas with african ancestry.

The african presence in Europe goes back to ancient times. There is visual proof of their presence in ancient Greece in the form of pictures on vases etc. Most afrocentrists claim Socrates the great Greek Philosopher as one of their own, based on his depictions as a man of african phenotype. There is no denying that the Shakespeare of Russia, Alexander Pushkin, was of african ancestry. As was Alexandre Dumas, the most popular writer in French Literature, who gave us “The Three Musketeers” and “The Count of Monte Cristo”. Beethoven the greatest classical musician was part african as well. African presence in the Middle-East is huge and ancient. Probably the most well-known poet/warrior in arab history is the african Antara ibn Shaddad, who is considered the epitome of chivalry and romanticism. The arab muslims who conquered Rome and Persia had a large proportion of african warriors amongst them. Africans, muslim Habshis, even ruled parts of India (Bengal) for a short time.

There are also huge numbers of east asians living outside East Asia. To the chinese, japanese and korean diaspora should be added the descendants of the mighty Mongols who came out of East Asia and literally conquered much of the world.