Comments on: “They don’t hire their own people. They hire Kenyans.” http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/01/they_dont_hire/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Ennis http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/01/they_dont_hire/comment-page-2/#comment-113806 Ennis Sat, 20 Jan 2007 23:20:22 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4064#comment-113806 <blockquote>The Lebanese perform the same function in West and francophone Africa as the Asians in East and South Africa. Just as there are dukawallas deep in the EA bush, you will find a 'Libanais' (the generic term for a store) in the rural parts of West Africa. My impression is that the communities seem to have divided the continent somehow, and don't overlap, but I could be wrong. </blockquote> <p>There are desis in west Africa, although more in Anglophone West Africa, and mainly Sindhis. But you'll see them if you keep an eye out for them. Some in Francophone, but fewer.</p> The Lebanese perform the same function in West and francophone Africa as the Asians in East and South Africa. Just as there are dukawallas deep in the EA bush, you will find a ‘Libanais’ (the generic term for a store) in the rural parts of West Africa. My impression is that the communities seem to have divided the continent somehow, and don’t overlap, but I could be wrong.

There are desis in west Africa, although more in Anglophone West Africa, and mainly Sindhis. But you’ll see them if you keep an eye out for them. Some in Francophone, but fewer.

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By: NairobiForever http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/01/they_dont_hire/comment-page-2/#comment-113801 NairobiForever Sat, 20 Jan 2007 23:14:17 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4064#comment-113801 <p>Oh man, great blog you got goin on! I love reading through everyone's comments! Nairobi is just incomparable to any place on earth - not that i've been everywhere! lol. Don't miss Sweety Sweets, thats my favourite sunday morning breakfast joint! The best one is pop-in centre but to dodge the queue try westlands Apic centre or South C shopping centre! My mouth's watering already!</p> <p>peace.</p> Oh man, great blog you got goin on! I love reading through everyone’s comments! Nairobi is just incomparable to any place on earth – not that i’ve been everywhere! lol. Don’t miss Sweety Sweets, thats my favourite sunday morning breakfast joint! The best one is pop-in centre but to dodge the queue try westlands Apic centre or South C shopping centre! My mouth’s watering already!

peace.

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By: Somewhere East http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/01/they_dont_hire/comment-page-2/#comment-109961 Somewhere East Thu, 04 Jan 2007 08:17:03 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4064#comment-109961 <blockquote>I'm feeling like the Lebanese are sort of a variety of brown, so I'm wondering if anyone can comment on whether there's a significant Lebanese community in Kenya/East Africa (yes, I know there are Lebanese everywhere), whether they have a prominent niche in the economic hierarcy, how similar (if at all) their status is to that of Indians, and relations between the two groups?</blockquote> <p>They are everywhere -- the usual figure thrown around is 14 million abroad (vs 4-5 million in Lebanon); no idea how accurate that is. While they appear to have blended in Latin America (Shakira and Salma Hayek for the punters, but also many prominent politicians like Menem in Argentina, Jamal in Ecuador -- not solely Lebanese, but Levantines) my impression is that they have remained more distinct in Africa, and have maintained closer ties to Lebanon. Many of them come from the traditionally poorer southern part of Lebanon, and seem to invest their earnings in building large palaces in their home villages.</p> <p>The Lebanese perform the same function in West and francophone Africa as the Asians in East and South Africa. Just as there are dukawallas deep in the EA bush, you will find a 'Libanais' (the generic term for a store) in the rural parts of West Africa. My impression is that the communities seem to have divided the continent somehow, and don't overlap, but I could be wrong.</p> I’m feeling like the Lebanese are sort of a variety of brown, so I’m wondering if anyone can comment on whether there’s a significant Lebanese community in Kenya/East Africa (yes, I know there are Lebanese everywhere), whether they have a prominent niche in the economic hierarcy, how similar (if at all) their status is to that of Indians, and relations between the two groups?

They are everywhere — the usual figure thrown around is 14 million abroad (vs 4-5 million in Lebanon); no idea how accurate that is. While they appear to have blended in Latin America (Shakira and Salma Hayek for the punters, but also many prominent politicians like Menem in Argentina, Jamal in Ecuador — not solely Lebanese, but Levantines) my impression is that they have remained more distinct in Africa, and have maintained closer ties to Lebanon. Many of them come from the traditionally poorer southern part of Lebanon, and seem to invest their earnings in building large palaces in their home villages.

The Lebanese perform the same function in West and francophone Africa as the Asians in East and South Africa. Just as there are dukawallas deep in the EA bush, you will find a ‘Libanais’ (the generic term for a store) in the rural parts of West Africa. My impression is that the communities seem to have divided the continent somehow, and don’t overlap, but I could be wrong.

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By: htown_boy http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/01/they_dont_hire/comment-page-2/#comment-109953 htown_boy Thu, 04 Jan 2007 06:59:47 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4064#comment-109953 <p>Ek Aurat,</p> <blockquote> <blockquote> <p>Hmmm. Sort of like Houston, except here I place the order with a hispanic woman and a hispanic man does the actual cooking (Balaji Bhawan on Hillcroft in case you were wondering).</p> </blockquote> </blockquote> <p>Balaji Bhawan rocks! It is also true at Madras Pavilion. Hispanic waiters taking orders for S. Indian meals!</p> <p>Preston, great post. Keep it coming...</p> Ek Aurat,

Hmmm. Sort of like Houston, except here I place the order with a hispanic woman and a hispanic man does the actual cooking (Balaji Bhawan on Hillcroft in case you were wondering).

Balaji Bhawan rocks! It is also true at Madras Pavilion. Hispanic waiters taking orders for S. Indian meals!

Preston, great post. Keep it coming…

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By: Ranjit http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/01/they_dont_hire/comment-page-2/#comment-109924 Ranjit Thu, 04 Jan 2007 03:12:13 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4064#comment-109924 <p>Doordarshan, I do not quite understand your question. Could you rephrase it? Thanks.</p> Doordarshan, I do not quite understand your question. Could you rephrase it? Thanks.

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By: kusala http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/01/they_dont_hire/comment-page-2/#comment-109895 kusala Thu, 04 Jan 2007 00:50:54 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4064#comment-109895 <blockquote>there is a seedy side to the indian diaspora as dragant pointed out - a lot of the old timers are prodigiously rich and spoiled rotten.....they live there, because that's the only society that will tolerate their burra-sahibisms now. that being said, they keep the wheels going by feeding the kleptocrats with booze, women and money. this is a rotten segment of the indian diaspora. the more you know, the more you loathe them and their elephant leg footstools and their zebra hide sofas.</blockquote> <p>The bit above made me think about the large Lebanese community in Ghana, and some of the ire/envy/invective they generated in the local population (I didn't get a sense of the extent of the South Asian community in Ghana, though). From Preston's account and several comments, it sounds like Kenyan Indians are more "well-integrated" than that, and it's set me off on a tangent of thinking about all these intersections of ethnicity, race, and class...</p> <p>I'm feeling like the Lebanese are sort of a variety of brown, so I'm wondering if anyone can comment on whether there's a significant Lebanese community in Kenya/East Africa (yes, I <i>know</i> there are Lebanese <i>everywhere)</i>, whether they have a prominent niche in the economic hierarcy, how similar (if at all) their status is to that of Indians, and relations between the two groups?</p> there is a seedy side to the indian diaspora as dragant pointed out – a lot of the old timers are prodigiously rich and spoiled rotten…..they live there, because that’s the only society that will tolerate their burra-sahibisms now. that being said, they keep the wheels going by feeding the kleptocrats with booze, women and money. this is a rotten segment of the indian diaspora. the more you know, the more you loathe them and their elephant leg footstools and their zebra hide sofas.

The bit above made me think about the large Lebanese community in Ghana, and some of the ire/envy/invective they generated in the local population (I didn’t get a sense of the extent of the South Asian community in Ghana, though). From Preston’s account and several comments, it sounds like Kenyan Indians are more “well-integrated” than that, and it’s set me off on a tangent of thinking about all these intersections of ethnicity, race, and class…

I’m feeling like the Lebanese are sort of a variety of brown, so I’m wondering if anyone can comment on whether there’s a significant Lebanese community in Kenya/East Africa (yes, I know there are Lebanese everywhere), whether they have a prominent niche in the economic hierarcy, how similar (if at all) their status is to that of Indians, and relations between the two groups?

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By: Ek Aurat http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/01/they_dont_hire/comment-page-2/#comment-109864 Ek Aurat Wed, 03 Jan 2007 22:25:32 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4064#comment-109864 <blockquote>I must admit that it is an odd feeling to place an order for a masala dosa with a black man.</blockquote> <p>Hmmm. Sort of like Houston, except here I place the order with a hispanic woman and a hispanic man does the actual cooking (Balaji Bhawan on Hillcroft in case you were wondering).</p> <p>Seriously though - great post. I am looking forward to reading more.</p> I must admit that it is an odd feeling to place an order for a masala dosa with a black man.

Hmmm. Sort of like Houston, except here I place the order with a hispanic woman and a hispanic man does the actual cooking (Balaji Bhawan on Hillcroft in case you were wondering).

Seriously though – great post. I am looking forward to reading more.

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By: Cybershrink http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/01/they_dont_hire/comment-page-2/#comment-109835 Cybershrink Wed, 03 Jan 2007 19:28:22 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4064#comment-109835 <p>@71</p> <p>Zambia's economic progress is not purely a function of Indian/PIO efforts. It primarily has been a copper-driven economy, which until recently was not a good place to be economics wise. Also, there is a significant health crisis with 20+% of the population infected with HIV.</p> <p>You know, critical thought is a useful faculty. That and watching Krishi Darshan.</p> @71

Zambia’s economic progress is not purely a function of Indian/PIO efforts. It primarily has been a copper-driven economy, which until recently was not a good place to be economics wise. Also, there is a significant health crisis with 20+% of the population infected with HIV.

You know, critical thought is a useful faculty. That and watching Krishi Darshan.

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By: Msichana http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/01/they_dont_hire/comment-page-2/#comment-109832 Msichana Wed, 03 Jan 2007 19:11:17 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4064#comment-109832 <blockquote>My sense is that most EA Asians would be more comfortable and have more in common with an educated black African than with a freshly arrived Indian.</blockquote> <p><b>Somewhere East</b>, you are right in assuming that. I don't speak for everyone but a lot of people I know would rather hire and work with an educated black African then a freshly arrived Indian. Again, this goes to show that there <b>is</b> an emphasis on the so called culture of the country.</p> <p>Black or Indian, you will hear a lot of people say 'Hakuna Matata. There is no hurry in Africa'.</p> My sense is that most EA Asians would be more comfortable and have more in common with an educated black African than with a freshly arrived Indian.

Somewhere East, you are right in assuming that. I don’t speak for everyone but a lot of people I know would rather hire and work with an educated black African then a freshly arrived Indian. Again, this goes to show that there is an emphasis on the so called culture of the country.

Black or Indian, you will hear a lot of people say ‘Hakuna Matata. There is no hurry in Africa’.

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By: Doordarshan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/01/01/they_dont_hire/comment-page-2/#comment-109819 Doordarshan Wed, 03 Jan 2007 17:48:11 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4064#comment-109819 <blockquote>It's mainly the jobless kids and adults who have a bad impression of Indians. The Zambians who are educated realise the importance of the work that Indians (and PIO) do in the country and go out of their way to be friendly.</blockquote> <p>Considering that Zambia (and Kenya) are deeply impoverished, what exactly is "the importance of the work that Indians (and PIO) do in the country"?</p> <p>http://www.irinnews.org/report.asp?ReportID=56416&SelectRegion=Southern_Africa&SelectCountry=ZAMBIA</p> <p>"Zambia's per capita income on average retrogressed at -0.6 percent per annum over the past 45 years and, as a result, its 2004 level of $902 in 1996 international prices is 23 percent below the 1960 level of $1,167," the report commented."</p> It’s mainly the jobless kids and adults who have a bad impression of Indians. The Zambians who are educated realise the importance of the work that Indians (and PIO) do in the country and go out of their way to be friendly.

Considering that Zambia (and Kenya) are deeply impoverished, what exactly is “the importance of the work that Indians (and PIO) do in the country”?

http://www.irinnews.org/report.asp?ReportID=56416&SelectRegion=Southern_Africa&SelectCountry=ZAMBIA

“Zambia’s per capita income on average retrogressed at -0.6 percent per annum over the past 45 years and, as a result, its 2004 level of $902 in 1996 international prices is 23 percent below the 1960 level of $1,167,” the report commented.”

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