Comments on: Not A Hate Crime http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/12/26/not_a_hate_crim_1/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Jai Singh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/12/26/not_a_hate_crim_1/comment-page-3/#comment-109445 Jai Singh Sun, 31 Dec 2006 12:46:14 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4047#comment-109445 <p><b>Non von Mises,</b></p> <blockquote>I don't think there are similar expectations for women to follow the 5Ks. Not at all.</blockquote> <p>"Culturally", No. But from a strict religious perspective, Yes there are. Women are supposed to wear the 5Ks and not remove any of their body hair or cut the hair on their head. Especially Amritdhari women.</p> Non von Mises,

I don’t think there are similar expectations for women to follow the 5Ks. Not at all.

“Culturally”, No. But from a strict religious perspective, Yes there are. Women are supposed to wear the 5Ks and not remove any of their body hair or cut the hair on their head. Especially Amritdhari women.

]]> By: Sahej http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/12/26/not_a_hate_crim_1/comment-page-3/#comment-109297 Sahej Sat, 30 Dec 2006 17:04:48 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4047#comment-109297 <p>As an implicit corrolary, Sikh men would then have the ability to participate in religion in a different way.</p> <p>Sikhism is quite an interesting religion in this regard, as well as the bakhti movement. its not at all a rigid tradition, but one where the quest is to experience fully the divine. Take the issues brought up by ghalib, and go many, many, many steps deeper in complexity and introspection.</p> <p>Guru Gobind Singh Ji knew quite a few languages and he conversed in the Zafarnama in the idiom that the Mughals would understand, even while speaking to his Sikhs in a way that was at home to them</p> As an implicit corrolary, Sikh men would then have the ability to participate in religion in a different way.

Sikhism is quite an interesting religion in this regard, as well as the bakhti movement. its not at all a rigid tradition, but one where the quest is to experience fully the divine. Take the issues brought up by ghalib, and go many, many, many steps deeper in complexity and introspection.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji knew quite a few languages and he conversed in the Zafarnama in the idiom that the Mughals would understand, even while speaking to his Sikhs in a way that was at home to them

]]> By: Sahej http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/12/26/not_a_hate_crim_1/comment-page-3/#comment-109291 Sahej Sat, 30 Dec 2006 16:36:45 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4047#comment-109291 <blockquote>are there similar sorts of expecations for Sikh women? </blockquote> <p>Six of one, half dozen of the other, its easier for women to flow across boundaries but also they have less of the power that comes from fulfilling the most important responsiblities?</p> <p>There is a movement by women to wear dastaar though, and that's quite significant. Things are changing.</p> <p>I think this could parrallel the feminist movement in the "Vestern" world; as women's gender roles become less constricting, so do mens. Its win win</p> are there similar sorts of expecations for Sikh women?

Six of one, half dozen of the other, its easier for women to flow across boundaries but also they have less of the power that comes from fulfilling the most important responsiblities?

There is a movement by women to wear dastaar though, and that’s quite significant. Things are changing.

I think this could parrallel the feminist movement in the “Vestern” world; as women’s gender roles become less constricting, so do mens. Its win win

]]> By: No von Mises http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/12/26/not_a_hate_crim_1/comment-page-3/#comment-109286 No von Mises Sat, 30 Dec 2006 14:00:54 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4047#comment-109286 <blockquote>The expectations are identical.</blockquote> <p>I don't think there are similar expectations for women to follow the 5Ks. Not at all.</p> The expectations are identical.

I don’t think there are similar expectations for women to follow the 5Ks. Not at all.

]]> By: Jai Singh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/12/26/not_a_hate_crim_1/comment-page-3/#comment-109285 Jai Singh Sat, 30 Dec 2006 12:49:31 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4047#comment-109285 <p><b>Milli,</b></p> <blockquote>are there similar sorts of expecations for Sikh women? </blockquote> <p>The expectations are identical. No differentiation is made between men and women in this regard, except for the fact that men are named Singh and women are named Kaur.</p> Milli,

are there similar sorts of expecations for Sikh women?

The expectations are identical. No differentiation is made between men and women in this regard, except for the fact that men are named Singh and women are named Kaur.

]]> By: milli http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/12/26/not_a_hate_crim_1/comment-page-3/#comment-109247 milli Fri, 29 Dec 2006 21:41:02 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4047#comment-109247 <p>i realized that much of this discussion is centered around what Sikh MEN "should" do -- the 5 Ks, for example. are there similar sorts of expecations for Sikh women? if not, why? it seems odd that in a religion that promotes gender equality, there would be different expectations or responsibilities placed on men and women. again -- my question is admittedly based on very limited knowledge of Sikhism.</p> i realized that much of this discussion is centered around what Sikh MEN “should” do — the 5 Ks, for example. are there similar sorts of expecations for Sikh women? if not, why? it seems odd that in a religion that promotes gender equality, there would be different expectations or responsibilities placed on men and women. again — my question is admittedly based on very limited knowledge of Sikhism.

]]> By: Sonia Kaur http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/12/26/not_a_hate_crim_1/comment-page-3/#comment-109208 Sonia Kaur Fri, 29 Dec 2006 15:39:21 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4047#comment-109208 <p>interested ~ thanks for mentioning that. The first Sikh conference I went to was the the Sikh Renaissance Conference which Jakara stemmed from, and it was one of the best experiences I've had. I went to a few Jakara conferences and defintiely think their team is doing great things. It's a great way to interact with other Sikhs and walk out with a lot of fresh ideas (if you're open to them) - <a href="www.jakara.org/organization.htm">http://www.jakara.org</a></p> interested ~ thanks for mentioning that. The first Sikh conference I went to was the the Sikh Renaissance Conference which Jakara stemmed from, and it was one of the best experiences I’ve had. I went to a few Jakara conferences and defintiely think their team is doing great things. It’s a great way to interact with other Sikhs and walk out with a lot of fresh ideas (if you’re open to them) – http://www.jakara.org

]]> By: Red Snapper http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/12/26/not_a_hate_crim_1/comment-page-3/#comment-109204 Red Snapper Fri, 29 Dec 2006 14:49:25 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4047#comment-109204 <p>Actually risible, go to the google book link I give above and you can read a fair amount of the introduction and subsequent chapters. I think that she asserts that plurality is central to the khalsa tradition because the different types of Sikh (sehajdhari, keshdari, amritdhari) are all enshrined within the 'Rehat Maryada' code that practising Sikhs follow in the first place, as she explains in the introduction. She therefore says that this is central to Sikh identity and allowances are made for different levels of observation whilst still being allowed to be called Sikh, although this is overlooked by those who cling to a more exclusivist interpretation. It is a matter of misplaced emphasis therefore. As for the issue of caste and marriage restrictions, well that basically affects Hindus and Muslims as much as Sikhs in Britain -- and British Sikhs do marry out often, I see it all the time.</p> <p>I don't think you can say that gora Sikhs will never be embraced by the community, that seems too absolute a prediction to make --- they are basically placed within the context of different schools including the Nishkam Sewak Jatha which originated in Kenya and is most vibrant in England. Which is the most interesting aspect for me, as it shows how these different paths of Sikhism originated outside India in the diaspora, the Nishkam Sewak Jatha as far back as the 1920's!</p> <p>Get your library to order a copy of the book risible, $89 is steep.</p> Actually risible, go to the google book link I give above and you can read a fair amount of the introduction and subsequent chapters. I think that she asserts that plurality is central to the khalsa tradition because the different types of Sikh (sehajdhari, keshdari, amritdhari) are all enshrined within the ‘Rehat Maryada’ code that practising Sikhs follow in the first place, as she explains in the introduction. She therefore says that this is central to Sikh identity and allowances are made for different levels of observation whilst still being allowed to be called Sikh, although this is overlooked by those who cling to a more exclusivist interpretation. It is a matter of misplaced emphasis therefore. As for the issue of caste and marriage restrictions, well that basically affects Hindus and Muslims as much as Sikhs in Britain — and British Sikhs do marry out often, I see it all the time.

I don’t think you can say that gora Sikhs will never be embraced by the community, that seems too absolute a prediction to make — they are basically placed within the context of different schools including the Nishkam Sewak Jatha which originated in Kenya and is most vibrant in England. Which is the most interesting aspect for me, as it shows how these different paths of Sikhism originated outside India in the diaspora, the Nishkam Sewak Jatha as far back as the 1920′s!

Get your library to order a copy of the book risible, $89 is steep.

]]> By: risible http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/12/26/not_a_hate_crim_1/comment-page-3/#comment-109203 risible Fri, 29 Dec 2006 14:22:00 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4047#comment-109203 <p>Also the role izzat (honor?) plays in the British Sikh community, and how it (along with caste) constrains marriage choices of the second generation (females in particular). It also discusses why <i>gora</i> sikhs will never be fully embraced in the community.</p> Also the role izzat (honor?) plays in the British Sikh community, and how it (along with caste) constrains marriage choices of the second generation (females in particular). It also discusses why gora sikhs will never be fully embraced in the community.

]]> By: risible http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/12/26/not_a_hate_crim_1/comment-page-3/#comment-109202 risible Fri, 29 Dec 2006 14:09:27 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4047#comment-109202 <p>Red Snapper,</p> <p>Thanks for the recommendation. Unfortunately, its a scandalous $89.95 in the US! Using the Amazon reader, I discovered she is a second-generation non-Khalsa Sikh who is advocating a "federal identity" for Sikhism in which disparate communities would be united based upon the acceptance of one or two tenets - especially gurmukh(?). There is a very interesting discussion of the untouchable Ad Dharm movement which rejected <i>both</i> Hinduism and Sikhism because of the discrimination they encountered in the communities.</p> Red Snapper,

Thanks for the recommendation. Unfortunately, its a scandalous $89.95 in the US! Using the Amazon reader, I discovered she is a second-generation non-Khalsa Sikh who is advocating a “federal identity” for Sikhism in which disparate communities would be united based upon the acceptance of one or two tenets – especially gurmukh(?). There is a very interesting discussion of the untouchable Ad Dharm movement which rejected both Hinduism and Sikhism because of the discrimination they encountered in the communities.

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