Comments on: Absolute Borders: Partition, Pluralism, and Nationalism http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/12/14/absolute_border/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Ponniyin Selvan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/12/14/absolute_border/comment-page-3/#comment-108038 Ponniyin Selvan Wed, 20 Dec 2006 04:35:17 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4029#comment-108038 <blockquote>Which part of my post did you not understand? Seriously, which part of it did you not comprehend? I can't be bothered to spoonfeed replies to you. I was not talking specifically about Kashmir, but was responding to wider points and themes touched in this thread. Do you understand, that, yes or no? Simple question.</blockquote> <p>I'm sorry Joolz. I'm no "secular, progressive intellectual", maybe a little dumb. please pardon me. you have to explain a little more. i just wanted a simple yes/no answer for my question.. Do you think Hindutva is the problem in Jammu and Kashmir, yes or no ??If you think this is getting cyclical, let's leave it at that..</p> <p>Again, my apologies for being dumb and not "secular progressive" enough to see Hindutva everywhere.</p> Which part of my post did you not understand? Seriously, which part of it did you not comprehend? I can’t be bothered to spoonfeed replies to you. I was not talking specifically about Kashmir, but was responding to wider points and themes touched in this thread. Do you understand, that, yes or no? Simple question.

I’m sorry Joolz. I’m no “secular, progressive intellectual”, maybe a little dumb. please pardon me. you have to explain a little more. i just wanted a simple yes/no answer for my question.. Do you think Hindutva is the problem in Jammu and Kashmir, yes or no ??If you think this is getting cyclical, let’s leave it at that..

Again, my apologies for being dumb and not “secular progressive” enough to see Hindutva everywhere.

]]>
By: Metric System http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/12/14/absolute_border/comment-page-3/#comment-107873 Metric System Mon, 18 Dec 2006 23:54:41 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4029#comment-107873 <p>Its difficult to understand what you are ranting about . . . considering very little semblence of fascism has masterialized from this Hindutva movement. Its quite apparent what you want to do . . . you are looking to construct a Hindu-equivalent of Islamic terrorism. What is Hindutva? In its pure form, I believe it is a very evil ideology, but one that is constantly strengthened when prponents of a civil code, those who firmly oppose the ideology of Jihad and crusade, those who don't believe Pakistan is a friendly nation, all these are lumped in with the Hindu nationalist group.</p> Its difficult to understand what you are ranting about . . . considering very little semblence of fascism has masterialized from this Hindutva movement. Its quite apparent what you want to do . . . you are looking to construct a Hindu-equivalent of Islamic terrorism. What is Hindutva? In its pure form, I believe it is a very evil ideology, but one that is constantly strengthened when prponents of a civil code, those who firmly oppose the ideology of Jihad and crusade, those who don’t believe Pakistan is a friendly nation, all these are lumped in with the Hindu nationalist group.

]]>
By: Joolz http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/12/14/absolute_border/comment-page-3/#comment-107810 Joolz Mon, 18 Dec 2006 19:17:30 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4029#comment-107810 <p>Ponniyin Selvan</p> <blockquote>Simple question.. Do you think Hindutva is the problem in Jammu and Kashmir, yes or no ??</blockquote> <p>Which part of my post did you not understand? Seriously, which part of it did you not comprehend? I can't be bothered to spoonfeed replies to you. I was not talking specifically about Kashmir, but was responding to wider points and themes touched in this thread. Do you understand, that, yes or no? Simple question.</p> Ponniyin Selvan

Simple question.. Do you think Hindutva is the problem in Jammu and Kashmir, yes or no ??

Which part of my post did you not understand? Seriously, which part of it did you not comprehend? I can’t be bothered to spoonfeed replies to you. I was not talking specifically about Kashmir, but was responding to wider points and themes touched in this thread. Do you understand, that, yes or no? Simple question.

]]>
By: Qalandar http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/12/14/absolute_border/comment-page-3/#comment-107808 Qalandar Mon, 18 Dec 2006 19:08:18 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4029#comment-107808 <p>RC: that's not been my experience to be honest; in my experience hostility to Pakistan's military is more often a function of what ethnic/linguistic group one is a member of than one's sectarian affiliation. Doesn't mean your friend is wrong, as I'm loathe to generalize from my experience, but for what it's worth...</p> RC: that’s not been my experience to be honest; in my experience hostility to Pakistan’s military is more often a function of what ethnic/linguistic group one is a member of than one’s sectarian affiliation. Doesn’t mean your friend is wrong, as I’m loathe to generalize from my experience, but for what it’s worth…

]]>
By: RC http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/12/14/absolute_border/comment-page-3/#comment-107801 RC Mon, 18 Dec 2006 18:28:07 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4029#comment-107801 <p>My KP freind once told me that Shias of Pakistan were more anti-Pakistan military than most Indians can ever be.</p> My KP freind once told me that Shias of Pakistan were more anti-Pakistan military than most Indians can ever be.

]]>
By: Qalandar http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/12/14/absolute_border/comment-page-3/#comment-107796 Qalandar Mon, 18 Dec 2006 18:09:14 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4029#comment-107796 <p>Sorry Kumar, I just read your comment, and I fear I have been needlessly repetitive of your comment.</p> Sorry Kumar, I just read your comment, and I fear I have been needlessly repetitive of your comment.

]]>
By: Qalandar http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/12/14/absolute_border/comment-page-3/#comment-107795 Qalandar Mon, 18 Dec 2006 18:07:57 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4029#comment-107795 <p>RC: Baltistan theoretically has a Shia majority although that % has drastically gone down in recent years due to the Pakistani army's attempts to alter the demography of the region. There has been Shia-Sunni tension in recent years, and there is at least one political group -- the Balwaristan National Front I believe it is called -- that is agitating for full independence for the region. Recall that Baltistan is culturally, linguistically and religiously distinct from "Kashmir" if by the latter we mean the Valley, and their inclusion in Kashmir 1947 was simply a reflection (as with so much else in world history and international or other borders) of the fact that they were part of the territory held by the Dogra Rajput royal family.</p> <p>I had read opinion polls some years ago suggesting that Muslim Gujjars in Indian Kashmir were majority anti-secession (one wonder if the fact that as OBCs the fact that the NDA government included them with various other OBCs in the category of those eligible for reservations plays a part), and that Kashmiri Shiites were less likely than Sunnis to be pro-secession, although what I recall reading did not contain enough data on the magnitude of the difference in political orientation; although there was a suggestion that as Shiite-Sunni violence in Pakistan had spiralled upward, Shiite support for secession had correspondingly gone down. Finally, it has long been believed by the Indian government (with what justification I have no way of knowing) that Ladakhi Muslims tend to be anti-secession; apparently a highly disproportionate % of Muslim Kashmiris in the army are from Ladakh.</p> RC: Baltistan theoretically has a Shia majority although that % has drastically gone down in recent years due to the Pakistani army’s attempts to alter the demography of the region. There has been Shia-Sunni tension in recent years, and there is at least one political group — the Balwaristan National Front I believe it is called — that is agitating for full independence for the region. Recall that Baltistan is culturally, linguistically and religiously distinct from “Kashmir” if by the latter we mean the Valley, and their inclusion in Kashmir 1947 was simply a reflection (as with so much else in world history and international or other borders) of the fact that they were part of the territory held by the Dogra Rajput royal family.

I had read opinion polls some years ago suggesting that Muslim Gujjars in Indian Kashmir were majority anti-secession (one wonder if the fact that as OBCs the fact that the NDA government included them with various other OBCs in the category of those eligible for reservations plays a part), and that Kashmiri Shiites were less likely than Sunnis to be pro-secession, although what I recall reading did not contain enough data on the magnitude of the difference in political orientation; although there was a suggestion that as Shiite-Sunni violence in Pakistan had spiralled upward, Shiite support for secession had correspondingly gone down. Finally, it has long been believed by the Indian government (with what justification I have no way of knowing) that Ladakhi Muslims tend to be anti-secession; apparently a highly disproportionate % of Muslim Kashmiris in the army are from Ladakh.

]]>
By: Amitabh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/12/14/absolute_border/comment-page-3/#comment-107690 Amitabh Sun, 17 Dec 2006 23:00:31 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4029#comment-107690 <blockquote>You had to throw that one in, didnt you ? :-))</blockquote> <p>Yeah, couldn't resist! Not that the language issue is as important as the human rights issues or even the long-term political issues, of course.</p> You had to throw that one in, didnt you ? :-) )

Yeah, couldn’t resist! Not that the language issue is as important as the human rights issues or even the long-term political issues, of course.

]]>
By: RC http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/12/14/absolute_border/comment-page-3/#comment-107678 RC Sun, 17 Dec 2006 21:24:50 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4029#comment-107678 <blockquote>3)What is the current situation of the Kashmiri language?</blockquote> <p>You had to throw that one in, didnt you ? :-))</p> 3)What is the current situation of the Kashmiri language?

You had to throw that one in, didnt you ? :-) )

]]>
By: Amitabh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/12/14/absolute_border/comment-page-3/#comment-107673 Amitabh Sun, 17 Dec 2006 20:54:05 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4029#comment-107673 <p>Kumar, thanks for your thoughtful and lengthy response. You're right, there are nuances here that are difficult to appreciate from afar, and perhaps partitioning the region into three states would simply be playing into the hands of Pakistan and the Jihadis. However, even just on the basis that most other states exist in India (primarily on a linguistic and historical/cultural basis) IN THEORY there is still reason to demarcate them. But in terms of realpolitik maybe it's better not to. Another three questions, if you have the time and inclination to answer: 1)What, in your view, is the solution to the whole Kashmiri mess (i.e. if you were in charge what measures would you (realistically) take? 2)What do you think will ACTUALLY happen to Kashmir over the next 10,20,30 years? 3)What is the current situation of the Kashmiri language? Thanks in advance.</p> Kumar, thanks for your thoughtful and lengthy response. You’re right, there are nuances here that are difficult to appreciate from afar, and perhaps partitioning the region into three states would simply be playing into the hands of Pakistan and the Jihadis. However, even just on the basis that most other states exist in India (primarily on a linguistic and historical/cultural basis) IN THEORY there is still reason to demarcate them. But in terms of realpolitik maybe it’s better not to. Another three questions, if you have the time and inclination to answer: 1)What, in your view, is the solution to the whole Kashmiri mess (i.e. if you were in charge what measures would you (realistically) take? 2)What do you think will ACTUALLY happen to Kashmir over the next 10,20,30 years? 3)What is the current situation of the Kashmiri language? Thanks in advance.

]]>