Comments on: For Shame. http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/27/for_shame/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Radha http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/27/for_shame/comment-page-2/#comment-104084 Radha Fri, 01 Dec 2006 05:38:36 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3988#comment-104084 <p>The varnas described in the scriptures may have been written by the Brahmins-but they didn't create just thakurs, vanniyas, patels and whatever other jatis-the concept of jati was most likely something that pre-existed from pre-Aryan India. So let's be fair, anyone from ANY CASTE who has ever tried to gain power through the system at any point in history has contributed to caste mentality.</p> <p>Think about it, there were so few brahmins as a percentage of the population-yet when dominant shudra castes rose to power-none of them attempted to overthrow the system.</p> The varnas described in the scriptures may have been written by the Brahmins-but they didn’t create just thakurs, vanniyas, patels and whatever other jatis-the concept of jati was most likely something that pre-existed from pre-Aryan India. So let’s be fair, anyone from ANY CASTE who has ever tried to gain power through the system at any point in history has contributed to caste mentality.

Think about it, there were so few brahmins as a percentage of the population-yet when dominant shudra castes rose to power-none of them attempted to overthrow the system.

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By: Vinay http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/27/for_shame/comment-page-2/#comment-103953 Vinay Thu, 30 Nov 2006 19:16:21 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3988#comment-103953 <p>Tushar,</p> <blockquote>No doubt this was the spark for the simmering anger felt by dalits since the Khairlanji incident where a dalit family was killed by upper caste villagers.</blockquote> <p>Here is a quote from an article about the case</p> <blockquote><i>Bhotmange alleges that sarpanch Upash Khandate and deputy sarpanch Urkanda Khurpe were involved in the killing and they should be arrested. But the incident is laced with strong caste overtones. The deputy sarpanch is a tribal, while the sarpanch is from the OBC Kalar group.</i></blockquote> <p>Get it? NOT upper caste!</p> Tushar,

No doubt this was the spark for the simmering anger felt by dalits since the Khairlanji incident where a dalit family was killed by upper caste villagers.

Here is a quote from an article about the case

Bhotmange alleges that sarpanch Upash Khandate and deputy sarpanch Urkanda Khurpe were involved in the killing and they should be arrested. But the incident is laced with strong caste overtones. The deputy sarpanch is a tribal, while the sarpanch is from the OBC Kalar group.

Get it? NOT upper caste!

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By: Tushar http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/27/for_shame/comment-page-2/#comment-103923 Tushar Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:31:24 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3988#comment-103923 <p>Radha</p> <p>When the media reports caste conflict in terms of the "upper caste/lower caste" dichotomy it does not create an impression that the actual violence is being perpetrated by brahmins against dalits for the reason that brahmins cannot fight because:</p> <ol> <li><p>They do not have the numbers</p></li> <li><p>They do not have the aptitude (this is more true of the south than the north)</p></li> </ol> <p>Brahmins have created and fostered the mentality that sustains the caste system, but it is also being perpetuated by upper as well as lower castes.</p> Radha

When the media reports caste conflict in terms of the “upper caste/lower caste” dichotomy it does not create an impression that the actual violence is being perpetrated by brahmins against dalits for the reason that brahmins cannot fight because:

  1. They do not have the numbers

  2. They do not have the aptitude (this is more true of the south than the north)

Brahmins have created and fostered the mentality that sustains the caste system, but it is also being perpetuated by upper as well as lower castes.

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By: Tushar http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/27/for_shame/comment-page-2/#comment-103921 Tushar Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:18:52 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3988#comment-103921 <p>The last 2 days have witnessed violent incidents of rioting in Bombay and Maharashtra because a statue of Ambedkar was desecrated in Kanpur. No doubt this was the spark for the simmering anger felt by dalits since the Khairlanji incident where a dalit family was killed by upper caste villagers.</p> The last 2 days have witnessed violent incidents of rioting in Bombay and Maharashtra because a statue of Ambedkar was desecrated in Kanpur. No doubt this was the spark for the simmering anger felt by dalits since the Khairlanji incident where a dalit family was killed by upper caste villagers.

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By: DTK http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/27/for_shame/comment-page-2/#comment-103795 DTK Wed, 29 Nov 2006 22:47:11 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3988#comment-103795 <p>Vikram Sez:</p> <blockquote>Lon Horiuchi may need an assignment to redeem himself for the Ruby Ridge fiasco. This could be it. </blockquote> <p>In the long and illustrious line of entirely tangential digs at the Clinton administration and things associated with it, I believe you have just outdone yourself. As Jon Stewart would say (while slow hand-clapping), bravo, braaa-vo!</p> Vikram Sez:

Lon Horiuchi may need an assignment to redeem himself for the Ruby Ridge fiasco. This could be it.

In the long and illustrious line of entirely tangential digs at the Clinton administration and things associated with it, I believe you have just outdone yourself. As Jon Stewart would say (while slow hand-clapping), bravo, braaa-vo!

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By: Shivam http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/27/for_shame/comment-page-2/#comment-103551 Shivam Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:13:57 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3988#comment-103551 <p>Desitude: what do you think?</p> Desitude: what do you think?

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By: Ponniyin Selvan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/27/for_shame/comment-page-2/#comment-103511 Ponniyin Selvan Wed, 29 Nov 2006 05:34:50 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3988#comment-103511 <blockquote>desitude, Thats an offensive question. Why does one need to explain their religious background, to make an argument about Hinduism. ?? He's a public figure though, a journalist who writes and comments in MSM. I was just curious about his backstory. Sorry if it offends you.</blockquote> <p>I don't think it is an offensive question.. Infact i'd advise everyone to come out with a declaration saying I was born into a family that believes in 'X' and right now I believe in 'Y'. whare 'X' and 'Y' could be same of different set of beliefs like Hinduism/Atheism/Islam/Christianity/Spiderman stories/Flying spaghetti monster/ etc.. That gives the readers a better perspective.. For example, the writer Amitava Kumar converted to Islam for his marriage in Pakistan (still retains the Hindu name though I don't know what he claims to believe now ). That would give a better perspective on his writings.. :-)</p> desitude, Thats an offensive question. Why does one need to explain their religious background, to make an argument about Hinduism. ?? He’s a public figure though, a journalist who writes and comments in MSM. I was just curious about his backstory. Sorry if it offends you.

I don’t think it is an offensive question.. Infact i’d advise everyone to come out with a declaration saying I was born into a family that believes in ‘X’ and right now I believe in ‘Y’. whare ‘X’ and ‘Y’ could be same of different set of beliefs like Hinduism/Atheism/Islam/Christianity/Spiderman stories/Flying spaghetti monster/ etc.. That gives the readers a better perspective.. For example, the writer Amitava Kumar converted to Islam for his marriage in Pakistan (still retains the Hindu name though I don’t know what he claims to believe now ). That would give a better perspective on his writings.. :-)

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By: desitude http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/27/for_shame/comment-page-2/#comment-103462 desitude Wed, 29 Nov 2006 02:20:01 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3988#comment-103462 <p><i>desitude, Thats an offensive question. Why does one need to explain their religious background, to make an argument about Hinduism. ??</i></p> <p>He's a public figure though, a journalist who writes and comments in MSM. I was just curious about his backstory. Sorry if it offends you.</p> desitude, Thats an offensive question. Why does one need to explain their religious background, to make an argument about Hinduism. ??

He’s a public figure though, a journalist who writes and comments in MSM. I was just curious about his backstory. Sorry if it offends you.

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By: RC http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/27/for_shame/comment-page-2/#comment-103455 RC Wed, 29 Nov 2006 02:06:30 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3988#comment-103455 <blockquote>You have a Hindu name. Do you consider yourself a Hindu, or have you disavowed Hinduism because you consider it rotten to the core? OTOH, if you are not a born Hindu, I apologize for the assumption.</blockquote> <p>desitude, Thats an offensive question. Why does one need to explain their religious background, to make an argument about Hinduism. ??</p> You have a Hindu name. Do you consider yourself a Hindu, or have you disavowed Hinduism because you consider it rotten to the core? OTOH, if you are not a born Hindu, I apologize for the assumption.

desitude, Thats an offensive question. Why does one need to explain their religious background, to make an argument about Hinduism. ??

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By: ylrsings http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/27/for_shame/comment-page-2/#comment-103432 ylrsings Wed, 29 Nov 2006 00:00:05 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3988#comment-103432 <p>what religion doesn't have a 'dark side'?</p> <p>the 'dark side' of each religion is mostly a matter of corrupt people interpreting the religion to their advantage.</p> <p>nowhere in hinduism does it say it is appropriate for a man to rape a 15 year old girl. nowhere does the religion state it is appropriate for a member of a 'higher' caste to assault one of a 'lower' caste and get away with it.</p> <p>in addition to caste rivalries, this crime has to do with power and the access to power, money, sexism, police incompetence, etc. similar crimes happen all over south asia-- in pakistan, bangladesh, etc. they may not be tinged with caste-related issues if they don't involve hindus, but they have their own negative socio-cultural aspects.</p> <p>the man who committed this heinous crime will probably buy his freedom-- it is up to the courts and government to make a true effort to curb these hateful crimes on an institutional level. the importance of empowering impoverished peoples and women in south asia will take a grass-roots effort on the part of NGOs and committed citizens.</p> what religion doesn’t have a ‘dark side’?

the ‘dark side’ of each religion is mostly a matter of corrupt people interpreting the religion to their advantage.

nowhere in hinduism does it say it is appropriate for a man to rape a 15 year old girl. nowhere does the religion state it is appropriate for a member of a ‘higher’ caste to assault one of a ‘lower’ caste and get away with it.

in addition to caste rivalries, this crime has to do with power and the access to power, money, sexism, police incompetence, etc. similar crimes happen all over south asia– in pakistan, bangladesh, etc. they may not be tinged with caste-related issues if they don’t involve hindus, but they have their own negative socio-cultural aspects.

the man who committed this heinous crime will probably buy his freedom– it is up to the courts and government to make a true effort to curb these hateful crimes on an institutional level. the importance of empowering impoverished peoples and women in south asia will take a grass-roots effort on the part of NGOs and committed citizens.

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