Comments on: Friedman on India http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/20/friedman_on_ind/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Sanjay http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/20/friedman_on_ind/comment-page-3/#comment-110283 Sanjay Sat, 06 Jan 2007 00:23:22 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3977#comment-110283 <p>It is heartening to note that many Indians(here in India and abroad) recognize and appreciate Friedman for what he was, an economist. He wasn't the leader of the world. He didn't implement policies, he worked on economics. And he stands vindicated 50 years on. And this has been a good opportunity to see the socialists coming out of the closet. There are still far too many here in India. We need a larger dose of American mainstream capitalist injections to sideline the socialists and move them to the fringes. Adi Godrej(chairman of the Godrej group) said in a newpaper interview- the government should not be in the business of doing business. And how true this is. It is when govt gets involved, whether in colleges or hospitals or bakeries or oil companies or banks, it uses our taxpayer money to compete against honest companies. Socialists ignore this and prefer to see a larger hand of the govt working in daily society. I say f--k that shit. And articles about 2 year wait for scooters are true. My father's told me first hand. I've experienced the phone connection situation myself, I've experienced the pathetic quality of vehicles that were sold prior to 2000.</p> <p>There is a lot more to Estonia's economic liberalization than can be put in a few words but I dare the socialists to come forward and put forth their contrarian arguments about that country. China took Friedman's advice to heart too. Look where it is today. China is more capitalist than capitalist America.</p> <p>Socialism is not a voluntary endeavour. Those who are dim on Friedman's published works, just search for "free to choose video" on google. Watch the 10 part series. It'll be an eye-opener.</p> It is heartening to note that many Indians(here in India and abroad) recognize and appreciate Friedman for what he was, an economist. He wasn’t the leader of the world. He didn’t implement policies, he worked on economics. And he stands vindicated 50 years on. And this has been a good opportunity to see the socialists coming out of the closet. There are still far too many here in India. We need a larger dose of American mainstream capitalist injections to sideline the socialists and move them to the fringes. Adi Godrej(chairman of the Godrej group) said in a newpaper interview- the government should not be in the business of doing business. And how true this is. It is when govt gets involved, whether in colleges or hospitals or bakeries or oil companies or banks, it uses our taxpayer money to compete against honest companies. Socialists ignore this and prefer to see a larger hand of the govt working in daily society. I say f–k that shit. And articles about 2 year wait for scooters are true. My father’s told me first hand. I’ve experienced the phone connection situation myself, I’ve experienced the pathetic quality of vehicles that were sold prior to 2000.

There is a lot more to Estonia’s economic liberalization than can be put in a few words but I dare the socialists to come forward and put forth their contrarian arguments about that country. China took Friedman’s advice to heart too. Look where it is today. China is more capitalist than capitalist America.

Socialism is not a voluntary endeavour. Those who are dim on Friedman’s published works, just search for “free to choose video” on google. Watch the 10 part series. It’ll be an eye-opener.

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By: everything is not black and white http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/20/friedman_on_ind/comment-page-3/#comment-103173 everything is not black and white Tue, 28 Nov 2006 04:20:34 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3977#comment-103173 <p><a href="http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2006/11/was_friedman_a_.html">Contrarian view</a>?</p> Contrarian view?

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By: desishiksa http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/20/friedman_on_ind/comment-page-3/#comment-102851 desishiksa Sat, 25 Nov 2006 06:02:47 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3977#comment-102851 <p>It's not a "theory"; ivermectin was developed as a veterinary drug. It is actually used as a case study in medical schools to show how profits often become more important than public health concerns.<br /> Another drug with a similar story is eflornithine, used to treat sleeping sickness. Aventis stopped manufacturing the drug because it wasn't profitable. They finally agreed to manufacture it again after a several year hiatus but partially because the same chemical is the active ingredient in Vaniqua, a hair-removal medication manufactured by Bristol-Myers-Squibb, who agreed to foot part of the bill for providing the drug for humanitarian use.</p> <p>I think I am unfortunately now beating a dead horse (veterinary reference unintended) so I give up. I guess this is a good example of how you can a spin a story any way you like, depending on your perspective. Whatever the motive, I'm glad both drugs are being provided for human medical use.</p> It’s not a “theory”; ivermectin was developed as a veterinary drug. It is actually used as a case study in medical schools to show how profits often become more important than public health concerns.
Another drug with a similar story is eflornithine, used to treat sleeping sickness. Aventis stopped manufacturing the drug because it wasn’t profitable. They finally agreed to manufacture it again after a several year hiatus but partially because the same chemical is the active ingredient in Vaniqua, a hair-removal medication manufactured by Bristol-Myers-Squibb, who agreed to foot part of the bill for providing the drug for humanitarian use.

I think I am unfortunately now beating a dead horse (veterinary reference unintended) so I give up. I guess this is a good example of how you can a spin a story any way you like, depending on your perspective. Whatever the motive, I’m glad both drugs are being provided for human medical use.

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By: Quizman http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/20/friedman_on_ind/comment-page-3/#comment-102822 Quizman Fri, 24 Nov 2006 23:24:08 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3977#comment-102822 <p><i>If not for it's veterinary use, they almost certainly would NOT have manufactured the drug which was the only cure (at the time at least) for river blindness</i></p> <p>The vet use side-effect must be profitable and I have no doubt about that. However, I disagree with the above theory since the story of how it was discovered and sent for free to Africa made it into a popular case study from Harvard Business School. I think it is still taught in some courses (Ethics & Social Responsibility, perhaps).</p> If not for it’s veterinary use, they almost certainly would NOT have manufactured the drug which was the only cure (at the time at least) for river blindness

The vet use side-effect must be profitable and I have no doubt about that. However, I disagree with the above theory since the story of how it was discovered and sent for free to Africa made it into a popular case study from Harvard Business School. I think it is still taught in some courses (Ethics & Social Responsibility, perhaps).

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By: desishiksa http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/20/friedman_on_ind/comment-page-3/#comment-102724 desishiksa Fri, 24 Nov 2006 03:07:57 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3977#comment-102724 <blockquote>The economists within Merck found that it was not a profitable market. Did they not manufacture the drug? Au Contraire, the management decided that the loss of morale amongst its employers would be terrible for the stakeholder. Consequently, they gave away the the drug free to African nations. </blockquote> <p>Ok. This is just pure dissembling and I can't let it go. <a href="http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/82/8/editorial30804html/en/index.html">Merck did make a profit from Ivermectin</a>, because it was used as a veterinary heartworm medication. One formulation was the world's most profitable veterinary drug. If not for it's veterinary use, they almost certainly would NOT have manufactured the drug which was the only cure (at the time at least) for river blindness. The profits from the veterinary use funded the humanitarian use. This is NOT about a drug company just being altruistic, although I applaud any humanitarian goals they had after making their profit.</p> The economists within Merck found that it was not a profitable market. Did they not manufacture the drug? Au Contraire, the management decided that the loss of morale amongst its employers would be terrible for the stakeholder. Consequently, they gave away the the drug free to African nations.

Ok. This is just pure dissembling and I can’t let it go. Merck did make a profit from Ivermectin, because it was used as a veterinary heartworm medication. One formulation was the world’s most profitable veterinary drug. If not for it’s veterinary use, they almost certainly would NOT have manufactured the drug which was the only cure (at the time at least) for river blindness. The profits from the veterinary use funded the humanitarian use. This is NOT about a drug company just being altruistic, although I applaud any humanitarian goals they had after making their profit.

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By: Classical Liberal Freedom Loving Warrior Against Terror http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/20/friedman_on_ind/comment-page-3/#comment-102698 Classical Liberal Freedom Loving Warrior Against Terror Thu, 23 Nov 2006 18:36:09 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3977#comment-102698 <p>Also its kind of interesting that this thread seems to be running in a republican/dem party linish kind of behavior. And friedman is a marginal Republican. Infact a guy who ripped Amartya Sens economic arguements especialy when it comes to india was an indian planning commision insider and an ardent freidman supporter who is also a proud Democrat. He did make an appearance in the free to choose series. He is Jagdish Bhagwati. Incidentaly Sen\'s arguementative indian and shows that he has read a lot but not thought a lot. He classified Panini as an afghan. Bull at that time afghanistan was part of proper hindu civilization, and he lived in the border area of afghanistan and punjab. There were 3 other mistakes in sens book( I am glad i did not buy it but read it in a library). He claims that he %age wise the number of hindus after partition in pakistan was same as % of muslims in india. This to mee looks like a delibrate lie.</p> Also its kind of interesting that this thread seems to be running in a republican/dem party linish kind of behavior. And friedman is a marginal Republican. Infact a guy who ripped Amartya Sens economic arguements especialy when it comes to india was an indian planning commision insider and an ardent freidman supporter who is also a proud Democrat. He did make an appearance in the free to choose series. He is Jagdish Bhagwati. Incidentaly Sen\’s arguementative indian and shows that he has read a lot but not thought a lot. He classified Panini as an afghan. Bull at that time afghanistan was part of proper hindu civilization, and he lived in the border area of afghanistan and punjab. There were 3 other mistakes in sens book( I am glad i did not buy it but read it in a library). He claims that he %age wise the number of hindus after partition in pakistan was same as % of muslims in india. This to mee looks like a delibrate lie.

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By: Classical Liberal Freedom Loving Warrior Against Terror http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/20/friedman_on_ind/comment-page-3/#comment-102697 Classical Liberal Freedom Loving Warrior Against Terror Thu, 23 Nov 2006 18:26:57 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3977#comment-102697 <p>Regarding Minimum wage being anti negro. It may sound odd now, but 20 years ago it was not as odd sounding. Negro was used more often then. And regarding discrimination against black yes it existed? and it existed due to laws. As far back as the 1950\'s you had advertisements where it said No blacks or jews need apply. It was not due to free market but the lack of it. And when I briefly worked for AT&T bell labs I noticed a +ve discrimination towards blacks after they had lost a lawsuit showing discrimination. I will make an anecdotal remark. It was my observation that all but one black engineers were marginal quality there. where as in all other races they were above average. and the one that was excellent was a jamaican immigrant!.... Real issue in black society is that individuals are not thinking for the longterm. If an individual was he would slug it through college, even when there is discrimination, for it hurts him more in terms of lost oppurtunity to be productive rather than get mired over not making enough.</p> Regarding Minimum wage being anti negro. It may sound odd now, but 20 years ago it was not as odd sounding. Negro was used more often then. And regarding discrimination against black yes it existed? and it existed due to laws. As far back as the 1950\’s you had advertisements where it said No blacks or jews need apply. It was not due to free market but the lack of it. And when I briefly worked for AT&T bell labs I noticed a +ve discrimination towards blacks after they had lost a lawsuit showing discrimination. I will make an anecdotal remark. It was my observation that all but one black engineers were marginal quality there. where as in all other races they were above average. and the one that was excellent was a jamaican immigrant!…. Real issue in black society is that individuals are not thinking for the longterm. If an individual was he would slug it through college, even when there is discrimination, for it hurts him more in terms of lost oppurtunity to be productive rather than get mired over not making enough.

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By: Classical Liberal Freedom Loving Warrior Against Terror http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/20/friedman_on_ind/comment-page-3/#comment-102694 Classical Liberal Freedom Loving Warrior Against Terror Thu, 23 Nov 2006 18:09:50 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3977#comment-102694 <blockquote>Big surprise Indians glorifying Friedman, since captialism did work for you ABCDs at the \"centre\", but screwed and continues to screw those of left behind in the \"periphery\", I will refrain from jumping on your bandwagon.</blockquote> <p>To Laal Salaam Take my middle finger salaam. I was in india and I saw mental energy being wasted on silliest crap. And Fuck Yeah Free Markets work. It was your kind that increased the number of handlooms in india after indipendence as well as destroying semi functional loan markets. It is your kind that has kept the agricultural masses unproductively used and gave rise to a corrupt industrial and licensing class. In a free market the efficient producer comes to rise, In a licensed market the licensee and their cronies came to power. PS I have been through licensing procedure in india, Infact when i worked for a TV a TV factory, which on paper was employing 30 people(cause any more than 100 caused the babu\'s to show up and clamp down on firing as you are a MSI not an SSI). I gave up that crap and moved to US(via Russia/West Germany) and I saw in my own industry How the indian governments lal salaam babus destroyed 3 generations. And PS I am not an IIT grad, but a polytech grad from a small village in himachal. In the system in india I could not do crap, In US I was able to accomplish some thing without being in the loop with the government, despite being an immigrant with bad english speaking skill, not being a graduate of an upper echelon university. for all the talk of social mobility you saalamis dont have a clue so as to how it happens Also it was quite interesting none of you laal saalami haramis were protesting when HU was in india? What happened to tollerence for minority ? A genocide in Tibet ? I read nothing from you blokes when iranian head of state was in india? you bastards hosted chavez and still insist that india attend non align movement meetings? None of you let out a pipsqueak when the saudi monarch was in india? Thats a repugnant society where a far greater number of indians worked in exploitative situation(with no chance of being naturalized) and what happened....No protest not a pip out of either your lal munh or you laal gand? When bush was in india(going out of his way in his own party to offer india a fair nuclear deal) you bastards were protesting all over. For all the talk about US being an unjust country how doesnt that compare to your cowtowing to china and all the middle eastern countries.</p> <p>A big middle finger salute to laal Salaami haraami jo madarchod hain (jo bharat maan ko chood rahen hain vo hain madarchod.)</p> Big surprise Indians glorifying Friedman, since captialism did work for you ABCDs at the \”centre\”, but screwed and continues to screw those of left behind in the \”periphery\”, I will refrain from jumping on your bandwagon.

To Laal Salaam Take my middle finger salaam. I was in india and I saw mental energy being wasted on silliest crap. And Fuck Yeah Free Markets work. It was your kind that increased the number of handlooms in india after indipendence as well as destroying semi functional loan markets. It is your kind that has kept the agricultural masses unproductively used and gave rise to a corrupt industrial and licensing class. In a free market the efficient producer comes to rise, In a licensed market the licensee and their cronies came to power. PS I have been through licensing procedure in india, Infact when i worked for a TV a TV factory, which on paper was employing 30 people(cause any more than 100 caused the babu\’s to show up and clamp down on firing as you are a MSI not an SSI). I gave up that crap and moved to US(via Russia/West Germany) and I saw in my own industry How the indian governments lal salaam babus destroyed 3 generations. And PS I am not an IIT grad, but a polytech grad from a small village in himachal. In the system in india I could not do crap, In US I was able to accomplish some thing without being in the loop with the government, despite being an immigrant with bad english speaking skill, not being a graduate of an upper echelon university. for all the talk of social mobility you saalamis dont have a clue so as to how it happens Also it was quite interesting none of you laal saalami haramis were protesting when HU was in india? What happened to tollerence for minority ? A genocide in Tibet ? I read nothing from you blokes when iranian head of state was in india? you bastards hosted chavez and still insist that india attend non align movement meetings? None of you let out a pipsqueak when the saudi monarch was in india? Thats a repugnant society where a far greater number of indians worked in exploitative situation(with no chance of being naturalized) and what happened….No protest not a pip out of either your lal munh or you laal gand? When bush was in india(going out of his way in his own party to offer india a fair nuclear deal) you bastards were protesting all over. For all the talk about US being an unjust country how doesnt that compare to your cowtowing to china and all the middle eastern countries.

A big middle finger salute to laal Salaami haraami jo madarchod hain (jo bharat maan ko chood rahen hain vo hain madarchod.)

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By: suresh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/20/friedman_on_ind/comment-page-3/#comment-102669 suresh Thu, 23 Nov 2006 09:23:30 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3977#comment-102669 <blockquote> Either way, good luck on your journey of higher learning. PEACE OUT! </blockquote> <p>Thank you. If I may say so, your tendency to make wild, unsubstantiated statements ("You haven't read Amartya Sen") is going to get you in trouble in other contexts too.</p> Either way, good luck on your journey of higher learning. PEACE OUT!

Thank you. If I may say so, your tendency to make wild, unsubstantiated statements (“You haven’t read Amartya Sen”) is going to get you in trouble in other contexts too.

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By: AradhanaD http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/20/friedman_on_ind/comment-page-3/#comment-102663 AradhanaD Thu, 23 Nov 2006 06:06:12 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3977#comment-102663 <p>Woah.... dude, you've got some serious ego-tripping issues right there. Chill! I'm not going to play this game with you anymore, it's just gotten wayyyy too personal. This is when one says "step away from your computer and relax. I do not know you! you do not know me." Either way, good luck on your journey of higher learning. PEACE OUT!</p> Woah…. dude, you’ve got some serious ego-tripping issues right there. Chill! I’m not going to play this game with you anymore, it’s just gotten wayyyy too personal. This is when one says “step away from your computer and relax. I do not know you! you do not know me.” Either way, good luck on your journey of higher learning. PEACE OUT!

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