Comments on: This Is Doha http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/15/this_is_doha/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: SP http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/15/this_is_doha/comment-page-1/#comment-101784 SP Fri, 17 Nov 2006 18:36:16 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3962#comment-101784 <p>"Stiff criticism from Arab columnists" - can you point to any articles for me? Which Arab columnists? Jazeera tends to be criticised by political leaders in the region who are mainly authoritarian or monarchical because they essentially provide a platform to criticise said leaders. A few columnists from papers like Roz al-Youssef and Al-Ahram in Egypt, which are state-owned and reflect the state viewpoint, or from the Saudi papers that can't risk offending the al-Saud ruling family, may voice some criticism, and there is genuine debate over showing messages from Bin Laden and images of violence in the Arab media sphere, but by and large I don't hear sweeping criticisms of Jazeera as a channel, quite the opposite.</p> <p>If you respond to critiques without facts, then you do set yourself up to appear poorly-informed.</p> “Stiff criticism from Arab columnists” – can you point to any articles for me? Which Arab columnists? Jazeera tends to be criticised by political leaders in the region who are mainly authoritarian or monarchical because they essentially provide a platform to criticise said leaders. A few columnists from papers like Roz al-Youssef and Al-Ahram in Egypt, which are state-owned and reflect the state viewpoint, or from the Saudi papers that can’t risk offending the al-Saud ruling family, may voice some criticism, and there is genuine debate over showing messages from Bin Laden and images of violence in the Arab media sphere, but by and large I don’t hear sweeping criticisms of Jazeera as a channel, quite the opposite.

If you respond to critiques without facts, then you do set yourself up to appear poorly-informed.

]]>
By: Quizman http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/15/this_is_doha/comment-page-1/#comment-101777 Quizman Fri, 17 Nov 2006 18:11:49 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3962#comment-101777 <p>SP: <i>was merely amused at how Quizman responded to my criticising him and RR for vigorous and misguided assertions about Al Jazeera by calling me a "condescending young fella" - a slightly clumsy attempt at asserting authority.</i></p> <p>Scroll up and you will see that my response was to your ad hominem; "Quizman, I don't have to know you - you laid your rather thin knowledge of the subject out there for all to see." and you continued in the same vein.</p> <p>Not once did I accuse you likewise in my responses before the one you've quoted. In fact you started your first comment with "The people who go on about Al-J's biases and sensationalism and so on usually are those who have never watched it and do not understand Arabic.", which is ingenious considering that the stiff criticism they have got from Arab columnists.</p> <p>All I am saying that is that you can make the discourse more useful and your points more "readable" if you refrained from making generalizations like those. Which is why GB's points came across better than yours since they are more credible and fact-based.</p> <p>Anyway, this aside is distasteful to me and this is my last post on this topic.</p> SP: was merely amused at how Quizman responded to my criticising him and RR for vigorous and misguided assertions about Al Jazeera by calling me a “condescending young fella” – a slightly clumsy attempt at asserting authority.

Scroll up and you will see that my response was to your ad hominem; “Quizman, I don’t have to know you – you laid your rather thin knowledge of the subject out there for all to see.” and you continued in the same vein.

Not once did I accuse you likewise in my responses before the one you’ve quoted. In fact you started your first comment with “The people who go on about Al-J’s biases and sensationalism and so on usually are those who have never watched it and do not understand Arabic.”, which is ingenious considering that the stiff criticism they have got from Arab columnists.

All I am saying that is that you can make the discourse more useful and your points more “readable” if you refrained from making generalizations like those. Which is why GB’s points came across better than yours since they are more credible and fact-based.

Anyway, this aside is distasteful to me and this is my last post on this topic.

]]>
By: Jai Singh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/15/this_is_doha/comment-page-1/#comment-101722 Jai Singh Fri, 17 Nov 2006 14:33:57 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3962#comment-101722 <blockquote>I've been away from desiland long enough that it was mildy amusing to be reminded of how desi men assume everyone is male till proved otherwise.</blockquote> <p>Most men in general do that (regardless of their background), unless something about the other commenter's handle or the contents of their posts indicates otherwise. It's not a specifically desi thing.</p> I’ve been away from desiland long enough that it was mildy amusing to be reminded of how desi men assume everyone is male till proved otherwise.

Most men in general do that (regardless of their background), unless something about the other commenter’s handle or the contents of their posts indicates otherwise. It’s not a specifically desi thing.

]]>
By: SP http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/15/this_is_doha/comment-page-1/#comment-101713 SP Fri, 17 Nov 2006 13:26:12 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3962#comment-101713 <p>I did not mean to insult anyone - I was merely amused at how Quizman responded to my criticising him and RR for vigorous and misguided assertions about Al Jazeera by calling me a "condescending young fella" - a slightly clumsy attempt at asserting authority. Scrolling back, I think Quizman and RR's points were conflated in my mind as I responded to both - so I may have assumed Quizman said something that RR said, for which I apologize. People's assumptions about Al-Jazeera do irritate me, particularly as the strongest responses tend to come from those who have never watched the darned thing and are responding to very narrow parts of the station's programming (rather like, say, Arabs who believe that Abu Ghraib is representative of all of American military history).</p> <p>I've been away from desiland long enough that it was mildy amusing to be reminded of how desi men assume everyone is male till proved otherwise. But that's just one of the joys of this blog.</p> I did not mean to insult anyone – I was merely amused at how Quizman responded to my criticising him and RR for vigorous and misguided assertions about Al Jazeera by calling me a “condescending young fella” – a slightly clumsy attempt at asserting authority. Scrolling back, I think Quizman and RR’s points were conflated in my mind as I responded to both – so I may have assumed Quizman said something that RR said, for which I apologize. People’s assumptions about Al-Jazeera do irritate me, particularly as the strongest responses tend to come from those who have never watched the darned thing and are responding to very narrow parts of the station’s programming (rather like, say, Arabs who believe that Abu Ghraib is representative of all of American military history).

I’ve been away from desiland long enough that it was mildy amusing to be reminded of how desi men assume everyone is male till proved otherwise. But that’s just one of the joys of this blog.

]]>
By: Jai Singh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/15/this_is_doha/comment-page-1/#comment-101711 Jai Singh Fri, 17 Nov 2006 12:52:17 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3962#comment-101711 <blockquote>How is this Desi?</blockquote> <p>Several of the anchors are South Asian, including Shiulie Gosh who is very well known in the UK (she used to be a news anchor on one of Britain's main terrestrial TV channels), and of course Riz Khan, ex-CNN demigod (I've met him briefly -- very tall, very wide, very charismatic, and also very polite & courteous towards my parents who happened to be with me at the time).</p> <blockquote>Ah, the bruised desi male ego.</blockquote> <p>I agree completely that the "male ego" is a common affliction amongst desis (and I've occasionally remarked on it myself here on SM), but I don't think it's appropriate to use that particular accusation towards specific individuals without solid evidence supporting it. I doubt that a male commenter casually saying "Ah, another neurotic confused desi woman" would be deemed acceptable behaviour (again, at least without firm prior evidence indicating this to be true about the particular commenter he may be referring to), and we can all imagine the cyberlynching that would immediately occur. I've found Quizman to be a thoroughly decent contributor during his participation on this blog.</p> How is this Desi?

Several of the anchors are South Asian, including Shiulie Gosh who is very well known in the UK (she used to be a news anchor on one of Britain’s main terrestrial TV channels), and of course Riz Khan, ex-CNN demigod (I’ve met him briefly — very tall, very wide, very charismatic, and also very polite & courteous towards my parents who happened to be with me at the time).

Ah, the bruised desi male ego.

I agree completely that the “male ego” is a common affliction amongst desis (and I’ve occasionally remarked on it myself here on SM), but I don’t think it’s appropriate to use that particular accusation towards specific individuals without solid evidence supporting it. I doubt that a male commenter casually saying “Ah, another neurotic confused desi woman” would be deemed acceptable behaviour (again, at least without firm prior evidence indicating this to be true about the particular commenter he may be referring to), and we can all imagine the cyberlynching that would immediately occur. I’ve found Quizman to be a thoroughly decent contributor during his participation on this blog.

]]>
By: SP http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/15/this_is_doha/comment-page-1/#comment-101702 SP Fri, 17 Nov 2006 10:49:50 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3962#comment-101702 <p>RR - good question on Veerappan. Didn't he actually give an exclusive interview to a news channel a year or two before he was killed?</p> <p>If a channel were to broadcast videos of killings/beheadings, I'd think it would be worse for the image of the killers overall - I think that was one of the reasons Al Qaeda and their wannabe imitators stopped making and sending those tapes, because they realized people were disgusted by them. It does raise a question of whether one glorifies violence by showing it in its most gruesome detail - was it correct to show images of violence from recent wars in Iraq and so on, or Abu Ghraib. I think that's a delicate decision and a news channel may decide one way or the other depending on its goals. Sometimes Jazeera Arabic will show children who have been injured or killed (when the same pictures are considered too gruesome for other channels) because they want to draw attention to the effects of, say, American or Israeli military action. Some American channels would be wary of showing dead American soldiers out of sensitivity to their families or perhaps out of wariness that the images could turn people against a current war. Sometimes they will show US-released pictures intended as PR, for example the pictures of Saddam Hussein on the toilet and washing his clothes in jail. Perhaps the journos among us can comment on the ethics of these decisions, but I for one don't think it's as simple as "you show pictures because you are sympathetic to perpetrators of violence."</p> RR – good question on Veerappan. Didn’t he actually give an exclusive interview to a news channel a year or two before he was killed?

If a channel were to broadcast videos of killings/beheadings, I’d think it would be worse for the image of the killers overall – I think that was one of the reasons Al Qaeda and their wannabe imitators stopped making and sending those tapes, because they realized people were disgusted by them. It does raise a question of whether one glorifies violence by showing it in its most gruesome detail – was it correct to show images of violence from recent wars in Iraq and so on, or Abu Ghraib. I think that’s a delicate decision and a news channel may decide one way or the other depending on its goals. Sometimes Jazeera Arabic will show children who have been injured or killed (when the same pictures are considered too gruesome for other channels) because they want to draw attention to the effects of, say, American or Israeli military action. Some American channels would be wary of showing dead American soldiers out of sensitivity to their families or perhaps out of wariness that the images could turn people against a current war. Sometimes they will show US-released pictures intended as PR, for example the pictures of Saddam Hussein on the toilet and washing his clothes in jail. Perhaps the journos among us can comment on the ethics of these decisions, but I for one don’t think it’s as simple as “you show pictures because you are sympathetic to perpetrators of violence.”

]]>
By: RR http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/15/this_is_doha/comment-page-1/#comment-101629 RR Fri, 17 Nov 2006 02:37:47 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3962#comment-101629 <p>Hypothetical question for you all; Let's localize this issue here:</p> <p>Let's just say late Veerappan is still alive and in his prime today; let's also say he has the technology - Video camera etc, and does regularly what he had done to his victims, but does it <u>on camera</u> - beheading, execution style shooting etc. What would be the reaction of Indians, especially South Indians, <b>if</b> a favorite TV station of his, Zee, Sun, Surya, Gemini whatever, <u>regularly</u> obtains the videos and airs them on a regular basis, say every time he murdered a human ? Agreed, he sent out audio tapes and allowed himself to be interviewed on camera. But what if the the videos were of the atrocities he committed?</p> <p>I guess, my question in short is, everything else being the same, how would you feel to have an AJ type of channel over our airwaves in India? Delighted, Disgusted ?</p> <p>Just curious, that's all.</p> <p>PS: SP, how do you know Quizman is a male, or even a desi?</p> Hypothetical question for you all; Let’s localize this issue here:

Let’s just say late Veerappan is still alive and in his prime today; let’s also say he has the technology – Video camera etc, and does regularly what he had done to his victims, but does it on camera – beheading, execution style shooting etc. What would be the reaction of Indians, especially South Indians, if a favorite TV station of his, Zee, Sun, Surya, Gemini whatever, regularly obtains the videos and airs them on a regular basis, say every time he murdered a human ? Agreed, he sent out audio tapes and allowed himself to be interviewed on camera. But what if the the videos were of the atrocities he committed?

I guess, my question in short is, everything else being the same, how would you feel to have an AJ type of channel over our airwaves in India? Delighted, Disgusted ?

Just curious, that’s all.

PS: SP, how do you know Quizman is a male, or even a desi?

]]>
By: Quizman http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/15/this_is_doha/comment-page-1/#comment-101522 Quizman Thu, 16 Nov 2006 22:11:53 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3962#comment-101522 <p>Doesn't matter what gender you are, it still does not give you the right to post ad hominems. I will refrain from commenting on anything by you till you stop doing that. I don't want to continue in this vein.</p> Doesn’t matter what gender you are, it still does not give you the right to post ad hominems. I will refrain from commenting on anything by you till you stop doing that. I don’t want to continue in this vein.

]]>
By: SP http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/15/this_is_doha/comment-page-1/#comment-101491 SP Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:22:28 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3962#comment-101491 <p>Ah, the bruised desi male ego. Delightful. I am a woman, and stand by my criticisms.</p> Ah, the bruised desi male ego. Delightful. I am a woman, and stand by my criticisms.

]]>
By: Gorbag http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/11/15/this_is_doha/comment-page-1/#comment-101479 Gorbag Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:45:16 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3962#comment-101479 <p>How is this Desi?</p> <p>After the Paks have West-Asians become desis too?</p> How is this Desi?

After the Paks have West-Asians become desis too?

]]>