Comments on: The Karma of Capitalism http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/10/27/the_karma_of_ca/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Floridian http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/10/27/the_karma_of_ca/comment-page-1/#comment-97160 Floridian Sun, 29 Oct 2006 03:27:36 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3908#comment-97160 <p>"marketing communications do not necessarily have anything to do with reality."</p> <p>Marketing communications disembodied from reality ultimately fails. As a business tool, marketing is simply not powerful enough to sell snake oil, at least not for long. Any business process that must connect with people before it can work is automatically subordinated to public opinion, and the public is a hard taskmaster. Whole Foods is not exempt from reality. Its reality is organic foods, and therefore there is no exaggeration in its marketing positioning. However, if you start brand extending its wholesome goodness into all kinds of altruistic causes, it will obviously come up short. Look at Wal-Mart. Its only claim to fame is low prices, and that's downright real and honest. Everything else they have inflicted on our society is just collateral damage in fulfilling the ultimate goal. But why expect Wal-Mart to do otherwise? Why do people expect big business to be guardians of our society? Michael Moorism must stop.</p> <p>As a long time ad man, I am always humbled by the consumer. I believe, actually I know, that business strategists much more successful than I feel the same respect for reality.</p> “marketing communications do not necessarily have anything to do with reality.”

Marketing communications disembodied from reality ultimately fails. As a business tool, marketing is simply not powerful enough to sell snake oil, at least not for long. Any business process that must connect with people before it can work is automatically subordinated to public opinion, and the public is a hard taskmaster. Whole Foods is not exempt from reality. Its reality is organic foods, and therefore there is no exaggeration in its marketing positioning. However, if you start brand extending its wholesome goodness into all kinds of altruistic causes, it will obviously come up short. Look at Wal-Mart. Its only claim to fame is low prices, and that’s downright real and honest. Everything else they have inflicted on our society is just collateral damage in fulfilling the ultimate goal. But why expect Wal-Mart to do otherwise? Why do people expect big business to be guardians of our society? Michael Moorism must stop.

As a long time ad man, I am always humbled by the consumer. I believe, actually I know, that business strategists much more successful than I feel the same respect for reality.

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By: hairy_d http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/10/27/the_karma_of_ca/comment-page-1/#comment-97117 hairy_d Sat, 28 Oct 2006 19:20:31 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3908#comment-97117 <blockquote>Altruism and Whole Foods might not go hand-in-hand as harmoniously as one might imagine. Refer to http://www.ibiblio.org/prism/may98/whole.html on Whole Foods and union-busting, and http://www.slate.com/id/2138176/ for the sustainability of "organic" a la Whole Foods.</blockquote> <p>GB - i dont disagree with you - to echo my point earlier from the somewhat murky statement I made ot Sriram in #22 - marketing communications do not necessarily have anything to do with reality. it is about using 'wholesome goodness' as a selling proposition - an opiate for the masses (including i) who need sensory fulfilment and emotional upliftment to go hand in glove.</p> <p>my point - this is marketing strategy - in reflection to the mood at large - ergo the altruistic packaging... not being cynical. businesses are in it to make money and be sustainable as they do so.</p> <p>(shruti - i'm hoping you'll chime in on these metrics, sustainability and community participation of big biz. i know you got stuff to share)</p> Altruism and Whole Foods might not go hand-in-hand as harmoniously as one might imagine. Refer to http://www.ibiblio.org/prism/may98/whole.html on Whole Foods and union-busting, and http://www.slate.com/id/2138176/ for the sustainability of “organic” a la Whole Foods.

GB – i dont disagree with you – to echo my point earlier from the somewhat murky statement I made ot Sriram in #22 – marketing communications do not necessarily have anything to do with reality. it is about using ‘wholesome goodness’ as a selling proposition – an opiate for the masses (including i) who need sensory fulfilment and emotional upliftment to go hand in glove.

my point – this is marketing strategy – in reflection to the mood at large – ergo the altruistic packaging… not being cynical. businesses are in it to make money and be sustainable as they do so.

(shruti – i’m hoping you’ll chime in on these metrics, sustainability and community participation of big biz. i know you got stuff to share)

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By: GB http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/10/27/the_karma_of_ca/comment-page-1/#comment-97115 GB Sat, 28 Oct 2006 19:00:33 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3908#comment-97115 <blockquote>there are strong business reasons to push altruism as a business practice, even if it is enveloped in esoterica. please ponder the following list and if you wish i can explain. 1. employee retention 2. niche market (whole foods)</blockquote> <p>Altruism and Whole Foods might not go hand-in-hand as harmoniously as one might imagine. Refer to <a href="http://www.ibiblio.org/prism/may98/whole.html">http://www.ibiblio.org/prism/may98/whole.html</a> on Whole Foods and union-busting, and <a href="http://www.slate.com/id/2138176/">http://www.slate.com/id/2138176/</a> for the sustainability of "organic" a la Whole Foods. To put it somewhat brutally: Whole Foods derives its cachet from the made-it-in-the-new-economy types, whose expensive educations tend to make them vaguely guilty about American-style consumerism, and who thus feel all warm and fuzzy about shopping at a chain store that projects itself as "altruistic".</p> there are strong business reasons to push altruism as a business practice, even if it is enveloped in esoterica. please ponder the following list and if you wish i can explain. 1. employee retention 2. niche market (whole foods)

Altruism and Whole Foods might not go hand-in-hand as harmoniously as one might imagine. Refer to http://www.ibiblio.org/prism/may98/whole.html on Whole Foods and union-busting, and http://www.slate.com/id/2138176/ for the sustainability of “organic” a la Whole Foods. To put it somewhat brutally: Whole Foods derives its cachet from the made-it-in-the-new-economy types, whose expensive educations tend to make them vaguely guilty about American-style consumerism, and who thus feel all warm and fuzzy about shopping at a chain store that projects itself as “altruistic”.

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By: hairy_d http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/10/27/the_karma_of_ca/comment-page-1/#comment-97109 hairy_d Sat, 28 Oct 2006 18:08:19 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3908#comment-97109 <p>sakshi</p> <blockquote>Check out this interesting essay on democracy in ancient India. It provides a very nuanced view of how democracy in ancient India was widespread, but, like Athens/Rome, not open to everyone</blockquote> <p>Thanks man. it was a thought provoking read.</p> <p>sriram</p> <blockquote>However, when it comes to BP, I assume you're talking about their push for alternative energies and the like. I know very little about the company, but I've been told that it's a bunch of hype. </blockquote> <p>sorry i couldnt Respond to you sooner sriram. i needed some time to look over the web sites for Total, Citgo, Bp, Shell, Petro-canada, IndianOil, Exxon to see if and how they promote their support for hte following (arguably not directly contrbuting to bottomline). here's how they stacked up (I've used the initials)</p> <p>support for environment (T, S) green business practices (T, B , S) community investment (T, P)</p> <p>Higlights - Total seems to <b>project </b> the most commitment ot the people and the world. Petro-canada's commitments seems to be driven through its roots as a regional player and as a legacy crown corporation.</p> <p>At the end of the day, it is about communication. Definitely, BP made the connection because given the choice i would go to a BP over an Esso any day. they may be boiling wild horses to make jars of vaseline - but the vulture i am, at least it makes me feel sanctimonious as i pour in the gas.</p> sakshi

Check out this interesting essay on democracy in ancient India. It provides a very nuanced view of how democracy in ancient India was widespread, but, like Athens/Rome, not open to everyone

Thanks man. it was a thought provoking read.

sriram

However, when it comes to BP, I assume you’re talking about their push for alternative energies and the like. I know very little about the company, but I’ve been told that it’s a bunch of hype.

sorry i couldnt Respond to you sooner sriram. i needed some time to look over the web sites for Total, Citgo, Bp, Shell, Petro-canada, IndianOil, Exxon to see if and how they promote their support for hte following (arguably not directly contrbuting to bottomline). here’s how they stacked up (I’ve used the initials)

support for environment (T, S) green business practices (T, B , S) community investment (T, P)

Higlights – Total seems to project the most commitment ot the people and the world. Petro-canada’s commitments seems to be driven through its roots as a regional player and as a legacy crown corporation.

At the end of the day, it is about communication. Definitely, BP made the connection because given the choice i would go to a BP over an Esso any day. they may be boiling wild horses to make jars of vaseline – but the vulture i am, at least it makes me feel sanctimonious as i pour in the gas.

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By: Floridian http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/10/27/the_karma_of_ca/comment-page-1/#comment-97095 Floridian Sat, 28 Oct 2006 16:10:36 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3908#comment-97095 <p>Many years ago when I was a junior grunt in the corporate hierarchy, I was assigned as a personal lackey to a major customer during a two-day customer conference. My charge was a semi-literate Texan who chew tobacco, wore a string tie and cowboy boots and had built a multi-million dollar business from nothing. I had to ask him how I could follow in his footsteps and what the top two or three qualities I would need to succeed in business. "Son, if you had only two or three top qualities, I am not sure you would even come out the chute," replied the rodeo loving tycoon.</p> <p>After years in business, I am convinced that there is no success kit out there, though some of the consultants are raking in billions selling solution-in-a-box.</p> Many years ago when I was a junior grunt in the corporate hierarchy, I was assigned as a personal lackey to a major customer during a two-day customer conference. My charge was a semi-literate Texan who chew tobacco, wore a string tie and cowboy boots and had built a multi-million dollar business from nothing. I had to ask him how I could follow in his footsteps and what the top two or three qualities I would need to succeed in business. “Son, if you had only two or three top qualities, I am not sure you would even come out the chute,” replied the rodeo loving tycoon.

After years in business, I am convinced that there is no success kit out there, though some of the consultants are raking in billions selling solution-in-a-box.

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By: shiva http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/10/27/the_karma_of_ca/comment-page-1/#comment-97071 shiva Sat, 28 Oct 2006 06:51:29 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3908#comment-97071 <p>Instead of a translation how about the volume edited by JN Mohanty on ethical dilemmas in the Gita? Of course the four purusharthas aren't the focus of the Gita. And I don't mean to say so. It is certainly much more than that. You can talk about making wealth without reference to the Gita.</p> Instead of a translation how about the volume edited by JN Mohanty on ethical dilemmas in the Gita? Of course the four purusharthas aren’t the focus of the Gita. And I don’t mean to say so. It is certainly much more than that. You can talk about making wealth without reference to the Gita.

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By: sakshi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/10/27/the_karma_of_ca/comment-page-1/#comment-97056 sakshi Sat, 28 Oct 2006 05:36:37 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3908#comment-97056 <p>Shiva:</p> <blockquote>"I sincerely feel that the message of the Gita has been grossly over-simplified. When people say that Krishna advised Arjun to do his duty, they often forget that the duty was to fight against and kill his own family and teachers." that's an oversimplification.</blockquote> <p>Why? I think I characterized Arjun's dilemma quite aptly. From Sir Edwin Arnold's translation of the <a href="http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/2388">Gita</a>:</p> <blockquote> It is not good, O Keshav! nought of good Can spring from mutual slaughter! Lo, I hate Triumph and domination, wealth and ease, Thus sadly won! Aho! what victory Can bring delight, Govinda! what rich spoils Could profit; what rule recompense; what span Of life itself seem sweet, bought with such blood? Seeing that these stand here, ready to die, For whose sake life was fair, and pleasure pleased, And power grew precious:-grandsires, sires, and sons, Brothers, and fathers-in-law, and sons-in-law, Elders and friends! Shall I deal death on these Even though they seek to slay us? Not one blow, O Madhusudan! will I strike to gain</blockquote> <blockquote> Now what's the problem about making money? There are the four purusharthas right? Artha Kama Dharma and Moksha.</blockquote> <p>I agree. No problem at all. Only I do not believe this is the focus of the Gita.</p> Shiva:

“I sincerely feel that the message of the Gita has been grossly over-simplified. When people say that Krishna advised Arjun to do his duty, they often forget that the duty was to fight against and kill his own family and teachers.” that’s an oversimplification.

Why? I think I characterized Arjun’s dilemma quite aptly. From Sir Edwin Arnold’s translation of the Gita:

It is not good, O Keshav! nought of good Can spring from mutual slaughter! Lo, I hate Triumph and domination, wealth and ease, Thus sadly won! Aho! what victory Can bring delight, Govinda! what rich spoils Could profit; what rule recompense; what span Of life itself seem sweet, bought with such blood? Seeing that these stand here, ready to die, For whose sake life was fair, and pleasure pleased, And power grew precious:-grandsires, sires, and sons, Brothers, and fathers-in-law, and sons-in-law, Elders and friends! Shall I deal death on these Even though they seek to slay us? Not one blow, O Madhusudan! will I strike to gain
Now what’s the problem about making money? There are the four purusharthas right? Artha Kama Dharma and Moksha.

I agree. No problem at all. Only I do not believe this is the focus of the Gita.

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By: badmash http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/10/27/the_karma_of_ca/comment-page-1/#comment-97050 badmash Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:56:06 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3908#comment-97050 <p>Terribly interesting piece Vinod. As a point of interest, I was just talking to an Indian prof the other day about his view that "Indian philosophy" sees artha (wealth) in the same matrix as dharma (ethics) and moksha (salvation) - there is no inherent contradiction between any of these but merely a question of harmony and balance. Don't know if this means much, but it does strike me that it is very different from the way these have been seen in relation to one another in the West.</p> Terribly interesting piece Vinod. As a point of interest, I was just talking to an Indian prof the other day about his view that “Indian philosophy” sees artha (wealth) in the same matrix as dharma (ethics) and moksha (salvation) – there is no inherent contradiction between any of these but merely a question of harmony and balance. Don’t know if this means much, but it does strike me that it is very different from the way these have been seen in relation to one another in the West.

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By: shiva http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/10/27/the_karma_of_ca/comment-page-1/#comment-97039 shiva Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:41:55 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3908#comment-97039 <blockquote><b>Vinod</b> The problem, of course, is that aside from the most narrow, cartoonish definition of capitalism...</blockquote> <p>Unfortunately some of the leading lights of 'capitalism' have more or less said so. A once famous and now washed out has been (whose theories played havoc) has gone on record that a business's only social responsibility is to increase the wealth of its shareholders. Typically simplistic and superficial reading of Adam Smith. The people the BW article talks about are a distiguished lot. Mr.Parthasarathy (Before he became <i>Swami</i> Parthasarathy) used to lecture on the Gita with his daughter; and was a lawyer of some distinction having read maritime law in London. CK Prahalad IIANM comes from a family of Sanskrit scholars in Srirangam and is himself trained in classical debate and poetics. And this is a fairly free market of ideas so if a Fortune 500 company wants to retain the counsel of Ram Charan instead of Dr.Phil there must be a good reason. The BW article did a good thing putting the current mania in perspective. And Sakshi</p> <blockquote>I sincerely feel that the message of the Gita has been grossly over-simplified. When people say that Krishna advised Arjun to do his duty, they often forget that the duty was to fight against and kill his own family and teachers.</blockquote> <p>that's an oversimplification.</p> <p>Now what's the problem about making money? There are the four purusharthas right? <i>Artha Kama Dharma and Moksha</i>. The Tamizh classic TirukkuraL too contains three parts respectively regarding the accumulation of material wealth, ethics, and satisfaction of the senses. The KuraL is really pithy and strikes you with its insights like the sharp tip of a needle. I am sure Govindarajan, Prahalad and Parthasarathy are learned in the KuraL too.</p> Vinod The problem, of course, is that aside from the most narrow, cartoonish definition of capitalism…

Unfortunately some of the leading lights of ‘capitalism’ have more or less said so. A once famous and now washed out has been (whose theories played havoc) has gone on record that a business’s only social responsibility is to increase the wealth of its shareholders. Typically simplistic and superficial reading of Adam Smith. The people the BW article talks about are a distiguished lot. Mr.Parthasarathy (Before he became Swami Parthasarathy) used to lecture on the Gita with his daughter; and was a lawyer of some distinction having read maritime law in London. CK Prahalad IIANM comes from a family of Sanskrit scholars in Srirangam and is himself trained in classical debate and poetics. And this is a fairly free market of ideas so if a Fortune 500 company wants to retain the counsel of Ram Charan instead of Dr.Phil there must be a good reason. The BW article did a good thing putting the current mania in perspective. And Sakshi

I sincerely feel that the message of the Gita has been grossly over-simplified. When people say that Krishna advised Arjun to do his duty, they often forget that the duty was to fight against and kill his own family and teachers.

that’s an oversimplification.

Now what’s the problem about making money? There are the four purusharthas right? Artha Kama Dharma and Moksha. The Tamizh classic TirukkuraL too contains three parts respectively regarding the accumulation of material wealth, ethics, and satisfaction of the senses. The KuraL is really pithy and strikes you with its insights like the sharp tip of a needle. I am sure Govindarajan, Prahalad and Parthasarathy are learned in the KuraL too.

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By: speck http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/10/27/the_karma_of_ca/comment-page-1/#comment-97026 speck Sat, 28 Oct 2006 02:07:40 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3908#comment-97026 <p>Abhi blogged about this article <a href="http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/003896.html">here</a></p> Abhi blogged about this article here

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