Comments on: South Asian via Africa Diaspora

By: Shruti

Shruti — Sun, 29 Oct 2006 10:47:03 +0000

Thanks SouthAfricaPhile – interesting stuff, but would you also happen to know about the role and treatment of South Asians in Africa outside of South Africa? My original question was actually in regards to Yeti’s comment about Indians exploiting blacks in Africa. Darwin’s Nightmare is set in Tanzania, and it shows Indian Africans in the “middleman” position – they exploit the blacks to death (literally) and serve as a buffer for the giant European corporations, who, obviously, make the largest profit from the whole setup.

I’m not a film geek, so I don’t know what one would call “visual rhetoric”, but there’s this one really tense scene (which actually gets repeated to highten the effect!) where the Indian businessmen are being interviewed. The way they skirt the issue and deny involvement in anything unethical clearly conveys to the audience that they do have an idea of what’s going on and where they fall in the race hierarchy, but don’t care about all the death and depravity they’re causing as long as they’re getting theirs.

By: SouthAfricaPhile

SouthAfricaPhile — Sun, 29 Oct 2006 07:50:26 +0000

Taz, Rather than conflating the distinction between Gandhi the symbol and Gandhi the person, may be better to do a little more research next time – and that too, from the SM archives themselves. http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/000472.html http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/gandhi.html

By: southafricaphile

southafricaphile — Sun, 29 Oct 2006 07:40:08 +0000

Shruti, Under apartheid, Indians were a separate racial category from Coloureds, and very distinct communities. Coloureds are basically a community of mixed-race individuals, many of whom trace some part of their lineage back to India, but further back than the Indians – who largely started arrived in the mid-19th century onwards. In terms of treatment, Indians and Coloureds were treated similarly, such as in prisons where Indians and Coloureds, say, would be given 2 pieces of bread, whereas “Blacks” would be given 1 piece of bread. The depth of legislated institutional racism was just appalling.

By: Shruti

Shruti — Sun, 29 Oct 2006 02:53:49 +0000

I've heard interesting things about indians in africa, some of them quite unfortunate. it would seem that at least some segments of our communities are in exploitative positions compared to indigenous africans. e.g., indians "employing" africans in virtually slave-like conditions in Kenya, Indians tacitly supporting the apartheid regime (which Gandhi has also been accused of) against Africans, etcetera.

I know next to nothing about South Asians in Africa, but I saw Darwin's Nightmare last year, and given only that film, I'd say you're right. (A couple youtube links if you want: 1, 2.) The film was very compelling (I was literally depressed for a month after seeing it, and I don't think I'll ever allow myself to waste food in any way).

Of course, there's always the question of artistic framing vs. accuracy, so I've also been wondering about the South Asian angle on that film. All I've been told is that desis fall under the "colored" category, which is still higher than the "black" category, and this makes a difference in treatment, culturally and institutionally. Can someone enlighten me?

By: taz

taz — Sun, 29 Oct 2006 02:20:36 +0000

And Taz, as for Gandhi in South Africa, he wasn't a politically mature individual during his time there.

Never said he was. For the Gandhi in South Africa arguments, read the blog and comments to the article I linked to in the post.

By: southafricanphile

southafricanphile — Sun, 29 Oct 2006 02:01:28 +0000

Also, Preston, don’t forget the Coloureds. Though it is an artifical construct imposed by the apartheid-era government, it is still significant to recognize the identity of this community as other than strictly black, white, or Indian. Hopefully, one day their identity will be recognized as a global norm.

By: southafricaphile

southafricaphile — Sun, 29 Oct 2006 01:55:34 +0000

While Catch a Fire is a decent film, it perpetuates the premise that American actors can and should play foreign roles. Why couldn't South African actors be used more here? Especially given that Tsotsi won an Academy Award last year, and the film industry in South Africa is finally emerging on the global film scene. South Africa has a wealth of talent, and I wish it could be showcased more.

And Taz, as for Gandhi in South Africa, he wasn't a politically mature individual during his time there. Many accounts reveal that he fought the cause of the Gujaratis, and that, the upper-class Gujaratis, exclusively. He even argued to the British (who were at that time ruling SA) that Indians were their loyal subjects and civilized, in contrast to the black Africans. So definitely take the whole Gandhian presence in South Africa with a grain of salt.

South Africa is a very complex place, and the role that the "Indians" assume there is often troubling vis-a-vis their fellow South Africans - filled with racism and that zealous obsession with the motherland. That said, there were and are some very politically and socially progressive Indian South Africans, who see themselves first and foremost as South Africans. Mac Maharaj, Jay Naidoo, etc. come to mind.

By: SY

SY — Sat, 28 Oct 2006 19:52:08 +0000

I don't usually watch nor promote movies, but Catch a Fire was really compelling. It definitely will get a few nominations come awards season.

Mmm-hmmm...

I'll hold you to that. I doubt it will receive a single nomination.

By: saba

saba — Fri, 27 Oct 2006 03:58:07 +0000

There was a whole issue a few years ago in SAMAR Magazine dedicated to the connections between South Asia and Africa.

By: Yeti

Yeti — Fri, 27 Oct 2006 00:20:42 +0000

I've heard interesting things about indians in africa, some of them quite unfortunate. it would seem that at least some segments of our communities are in exploitative positions compared to indigenous africans. e.g., indians "employing" africans in virtually slave-like conditions in Kenya, Indians tacitly supporting the apartheid regime (which Gandhi has also been accused of) against Africans, etcetera.

the market can fix this, regardless of what the reality is, so i'm not worried about it.