Comments on: The benevolent loan-shark http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/10/13/the_benevolent/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Shamim Chowdhury http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/10/13/the_benevolent/comment-page-1/#comment-281656 Shamim Chowdhury Fri, 25 Feb 2011 08:48:12 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3866#comment-281656 <p>Grameen style of Micro credit with as high as 20% interest will never eradicate poverty but it will create an illusion as if poverty been eliminated and Bangladeshi poor women are the prove of it. Almost all of Grameen’s interest borrower members are still under poverty line. I wonder how Dr. Younus dreams of sending poverty to museum while his bank members sink and suffocate with high interest loans. I sometime wonder and search answer of what is the basic difference between a pay day lender and Grameen Bank, are not both are Loan Sharks? I my self working for so called social enterprise micro finance lender for about year in Bangladesh can testify these micro credit does help poor to feel a bit empowered before the hard reality of repayment weekly meeting comes to his face and have to make a payment in a week of taking interest while not making a single penny generated. Peer pressure some time is unbearable and humiliating to commit suicide.</p> Grameen style of Micro credit with as high as 20% interest will never eradicate poverty but it will create an illusion as if poverty been eliminated and Bangladeshi poor women are the prove of it. Almost all of Grameen’s interest borrower members are still under poverty line. I wonder how Dr. Younus dreams of sending poverty to museum while his bank members sink and suffocate with high interest loans. I sometime wonder and search answer of what is the basic difference between a pay day lender and Grameen Bank, are not both are Loan Sharks? I my self working for so called social enterprise micro finance lender for about year in Bangladesh can testify these micro credit does help poor to feel a bit empowered before the hard reality of repayment weekly meeting comes to his face and have to make a payment in a week of taking interest while not making a single penny generated. Peer pressure some time is unbearable and humiliating to commit suicide.

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By: tashie http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/10/13/the_benevolent/comment-page-1/#comment-94008 tashie Sun, 15 Oct 2006 02:24:08 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3866#comment-94008 <p>Abhi (and DesiDawg)</p> <p>The over-analysis of the pic was meant to be a joke...was trying to find a MoorNam equivalent of crazy left-wing white-man hater to mock but it was late and I was tired...</p> <p>so yeah obv. not a vg joke...sigh. I thought it was really great of those Norwegians to highlight the POVERTY is a PEACE issue.</p> <blockquote>Sorry have just been recently over-exposed to postcolonial theory by people burdened with too much white liberal guilt and needed to <b>mock/vent</b></blockquote> Abhi (and DesiDawg)

The over-analysis of the pic was meant to be a joke…was trying to find a MoorNam equivalent of crazy left-wing white-man hater to mock but it was late and I was tired…

so yeah obv. not a vg joke…sigh. I thought it was really great of those Norwegians to highlight the POVERTY is a PEACE issue.

Sorry have just been recently over-exposed to postcolonial theory by people burdened with too much white liberal guilt and needed to mock/vent
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By: tamasha http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/10/13/the_benevolent/comment-page-1/#comment-94004 tamasha Sun, 15 Oct 2006 01:13:39 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3866#comment-94004 <blockquote>Loans and Oxfam gifts of goats, cows and donkeys are great Xmas gifts, I'm thinking of getting either/or for people this December :)</blockquote> <p>There's also <a href="http://www.heifer.org/">Heifer</a>.</p> <p>And yes, the name makes me laugh. My humor gene has not progressed beyond that of a twelve year old boy.</p> Loans and Oxfam gifts of goats, cows and donkeys are great Xmas gifts, I’m thinking of getting either/or for people this December :)

There’s also Heifer.

And yes, the name makes me laugh. My humor gene has not progressed beyond that of a twelve year old boy.

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By: Abhi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/10/13/the_benevolent/comment-page-1/#comment-93977 Abhi Sat, 14 Oct 2006 18:52:01 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3866#comment-93977 <blockquote>No one can fault this board for over-analysis, can they?</blockquote> <p>Isn't it an artistic director's job to publish a picture that isn't just a boring head shot? As bloggers we have to be writers, editors, and artistic directors all at once. We have to say a lot in a minimum amount of space. I usually put some thought into my post titles and the pictures I use for this very reason.</p> <blockquote> It's always some sinister plot of the white man against us brownz.</blockquote> <p>Now you sound like a victim.</p> No one can fault this board for over-analysis, can they?

Isn’t it an artistic director’s job to publish a picture that isn’t just a boring head shot? As bloggers we have to be writers, editors, and artistic directors all at once. We have to say a lot in a minimum amount of space. I usually put some thought into my post titles and the pictures I use for this very reason.

It’s always some sinister plot of the white man against us brownz.

Now you sound like a victim.

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By: DesiDawg http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/10/13/the_benevolent/comment-page-1/#comment-93975 DesiDawg Sat, 14 Oct 2006 18:45:17 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3866#comment-93975 <p><i><b>I liked that he was holding Yunus' picture almost like a sign you'd find at a protest.</b></i></p> <p><i><b>Is that meant to be symbolic of your stance on where Yunus stands...just a one-dimensional picture being 'carried' by a white man aka the MAN...as a cheap exotic photograph of 'the other' bought on a package tour to the motherland...no photo of Yunus himself...</b></i></p> <p>No one can fault this board for over-analysis, can they? Are we rapidly turning into irrational conspiracy theorists? It's always some sinister plot of the white man against us brownz.</p> I liked that he was holding Yunus’ picture almost like a sign you’d find at a protest.

Is that meant to be symbolic of your stance on where Yunus stands…just a one-dimensional picture being ‘carried’ by a white man aka the MAN…as a cheap exotic photograph of ‘the other’ bought on a package tour to the motherland…no photo of Yunus himself…

No one can fault this board for over-analysis, can they? Are we rapidly turning into irrational conspiracy theorists? It’s always some sinister plot of the white man against us brownz.

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By: Abhi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/10/13/the_benevolent/comment-page-1/#comment-93974 Abhi Sat, 14 Oct 2006 18:34:05 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3866#comment-93974 <blockquote>what's up with the photo in your post? Is that meant to be symbolic of your stance on where Yunus stands..</blockquote> <p>The <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/061013/photos_bs_afp/697dd142224456839ee68b7e1f816d56">picture</a> is one of Nobel Committtee chairman Ole Danbolt Mjoes unveiling Yunus. The Norwegians are the ones who decide who is worthy so I felt this was appropriate. Also the commitee is known for expressing its political views in its choice of the Peace and Literature prizes. I liked that he was holding Yunus' picture almost like a sign you'd find at a protest.</p> what’s up with the photo in your post? Is that meant to be symbolic of your stance on where Yunus stands..

The picture is one of Nobel Committtee chairman Ole Danbolt Mjoes unveiling Yunus. The Norwegians are the ones who decide who is worthy so I felt this was appropriate. Also the commitee is known for expressing its political views in its choice of the Peace and Literature prizes. I liked that he was holding Yunus’ picture almost like a sign you’d find at a protest.

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By: No von Mises http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/10/13/the_benevolent/comment-page-1/#comment-93941 No von Mises Sat, 14 Oct 2006 14:16:19 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3866#comment-93941 <p>giving schmiving:</p> <blockquote>In fact, I actually think—this is one of the reasons people like Ignatieff are so angry at me—there is much more in common between the human rights activists and the Bush administration than either side is comfortable admitting. Fundamentally, they are revolutionaries from above, in the old Trotskyist sense and think they can change the world. [They] Think they know how to change the world and have no qualms or modesty about doing it. Of course, they regret the need. I'm being fair, of course. They know all wars are tragic. I'm not pretending that people are either stupid or unaware of the risks or the price. But in the end they feel confident that this is the best of all options. They may be right. Let me go out on a limb that I don't usually go out on and say, "Let's assume they are right." I don't believe necessarily that I'm right. I'm very torn on this subject. It's still better to have a humanitarianism that's independent of this. That doesn't get confused with this. It's still better to have a world in which General Powell does not say to a donor's conference at the time of the Afghan War, "Humanitarian aid is a tremendous force multiplier for us." I was at a conference at the Army War College in Carlyle, Pennsylvania and in one of the breaks a young Special Forces colonel came up to Nicholas de Torrente, the head of MSF USA, and he said, "Oh I'm really glad to meet you. We really have to talk privately, not just at this conference context because it would be really great if Special Forces and MSF could arrange modalities for when we hand over to you." I don't think this colonel was out on a limb. It's clear that in his mind, humanitarian action was just an adjunct to US power. And he just wanted to make it work better. That's what this alliance with this stuff leads to and that's what I am appalled by. Humanitarians will say, "It's not US power, it's human rights. It's international law." I find all these concepts unbelievably unpersuasive.</blockquote> <p>-<a href="http://www.identitytheory.com/people/birnbaum74.html">David Rieff</a></p> <p>Big ups to Yunus though. It's largely because of him and his popularity that microfinance has a chapter in econ textbooks. Nevermind the Economists frothiness as noted by No Desh- poverty <i>is</i> violent in its very nature.</p> giving schmiving:

In fact, I actually think—this is one of the reasons people like Ignatieff are so angry at me—there is much more in common between the human rights activists and the Bush administration than either side is comfortable admitting. Fundamentally, they are revolutionaries from above, in the old Trotskyist sense and think they can change the world. [They] Think they know how to change the world and have no qualms or modesty about doing it. Of course, they regret the need. I’m being fair, of course. They know all wars are tragic. I’m not pretending that people are either stupid or unaware of the risks or the price. But in the end they feel confident that this is the best of all options. They may be right. Let me go out on a limb that I don’t usually go out on and say, “Let’s assume they are right.” I don’t believe necessarily that I’m right. I’m very torn on this subject. It’s still better to have a humanitarianism that’s independent of this. That doesn’t get confused with this. It’s still better to have a world in which General Powell does not say to a donor’s conference at the time of the Afghan War, “Humanitarian aid is a tremendous force multiplier for us.” I was at a conference at the Army War College in Carlyle, Pennsylvania and in one of the breaks a young Special Forces colonel came up to Nicholas de Torrente, the head of MSF USA, and he said, “Oh I’m really glad to meet you. We really have to talk privately, not just at this conference context because it would be really great if Special Forces and MSF could arrange modalities for when we hand over to you.” I don’t think this colonel was out on a limb. It’s clear that in his mind, humanitarian action was just an adjunct to US power. And he just wanted to make it work better. That’s what this alliance with this stuff leads to and that’s what I am appalled by. Humanitarians will say, “It’s not US power, it’s human rights. It’s international law.” I find all these concepts unbelievably unpersuasive.

-David Rieff

Big ups to Yunus though. It’s largely because of him and his popularity that microfinance has a chapter in econ textbooks. Nevermind the Economists frothiness as noted by No Desh- poverty is violent in its very nature.

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By: tash_in_postcolonial_guise http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/10/13/the_benevolent/comment-page-1/#comment-93939 tash_in_postcolonial_guise Sat, 14 Oct 2006 12:56:43 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3866#comment-93939 <p>Hey Abhi,</p> <p>what's up with the photo in your post? Is that meant to be symbolic of your stance on where Yunus stands...just a one-dimensional picture being 'carried' by a white man aka the MAN...as a cheap exotic photograph of 'the other' bought on a package tour to the motherland...no photo of Yunus himself...</p> <p>And to have Yunus's hands raised in that stereotypical Eastern gesture, as if in helplessness, while some old European professor literally 'holds him up' in support... it just speaks tragic tragic postcolonial volumes that my bleeding heart just can't get over...</p> <p>even the placement of their heads is symbolic...old white haired male on top, winner of the actual prize perpetually subjugated at the bottom.</p> <p>The typical gentleman's club backdrop behind them cements the power dynamic with the chandelier and old bookshelf in the background...I just can't take it!</p> <p>**</p> <p>Sorry have just been recently over-exposed to postcolonial theory by people burdened with too much white liberal guilt and needed to mock/vent.</p> <p>Oxfam's running a major campaign to get people to give animals, which I think was covered in a similar post. I dunno about in the US but here people feel more comfortable about giving something rather than dealing with money/donations. Cows, donkeys and goats for Christmas...and no mad rush buying commercial crap in the uber-depressing setting of a mall during the holidays! I'm sold.</p> <p>I think Tear Fund Micro Enterprise also helps people set up small businesses with interest free loans.</p> Hey Abhi,

what’s up with the photo in your post? Is that meant to be symbolic of your stance on where Yunus stands…just a one-dimensional picture being ‘carried’ by a white man aka the MAN…as a cheap exotic photograph of ‘the other’ bought on a package tour to the motherland…no photo of Yunus himself…

And to have Yunus’s hands raised in that stereotypical Eastern gesture, as if in helplessness, while some old European professor literally ‘holds him up’ in support… it just speaks tragic tragic postcolonial volumes that my bleeding heart just can’t get over…

even the placement of their heads is symbolic…old white haired male on top, winner of the actual prize perpetually subjugated at the bottom.

The typical gentleman’s club backdrop behind them cements the power dynamic with the chandelier and old bookshelf in the background…I just can’t take it!

**

Sorry have just been recently over-exposed to postcolonial theory by people burdened with too much white liberal guilt and needed to mock/vent.

Oxfam’s running a major campaign to get people to give animals, which I think was covered in a similar post. I dunno about in the US but here people feel more comfortable about giving something rather than dealing with money/donations. Cows, donkeys and goats for Christmas…and no mad rush buying commercial crap in the uber-depressing setting of a mall during the holidays! I’m sold.

I think Tear Fund Micro Enterprise also helps people set up small businesses with interest free loans.

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By: No Desh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/10/13/the_benevolent/comment-page-1/#comment-93918 No Desh Sat, 14 Oct 2006 10:16:23 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3866#comment-93918 <p>I don't this has been mentioned yet in this thread (my apologies if I'm blind) but the current issue of The Economist doesn't seem too pleased with this year's Peace Prize awarding: <a href="http://www.economist.com/agenda/displaystory.cfm?story_id=8045069">here</a></p> <blockquote>[T]he Nobel committee could have made a braver, more difficult, choice by declaring that there would be no recipient at all...The reason for the institute to withhold the prize, instead, would be to preserve its value. There is a risk that its worth is being eroded as the institute scrambles to find an eye-catching recipient every year. There is the problem of Buggin's turn, an expectation (as with some other prizes) that the award should rotate between regions of the world. This year it is Asia, last year the recipient was from the Middle East, the year before from Africa...<b>This yearÂ’s winner is an admirable anti-poverty campaigner, but it is a stretch to call him or the Grameen bank peacemakers</b>.</blockquote> I don’t this has been mentioned yet in this thread (my apologies if I’m blind) but the current issue of The Economist doesn’t seem too pleased with this year’s Peace Prize awarding: here

[T]he Nobel committee could have made a braver, more difficult, choice by declaring that there would be no recipient at all…The reason for the institute to withhold the prize, instead, would be to preserve its value. There is a risk that its worth is being eroded as the institute scrambles to find an eye-catching recipient every year. There is the problem of Buggin’s turn, an expectation (as with some other prizes) that the award should rotate between regions of the world. This year it is Asia, last year the recipient was from the Middle East, the year before from Africa…This yearÂ’s winner is an admirable anti-poverty campaigner, but it is a stretch to call him or the Grameen bank peacemakers.
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By: duchess http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/10/13/the_benevolent/comment-page-1/#comment-93910 duchess Sat, 14 Oct 2006 05:02:28 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3866#comment-93910 <p>Along with Kiva, there's also Global Giving: http://www.globalgiving.com/</p> Along with Kiva, there’s also Global Giving: http://www.globalgiving.com/

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