Comments on: Mixed Messages, Part II: Living the Mix http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/09/20/mixed_messages_1/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Pardesi Ban http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/09/20/mixed_messages_1/comment-page-2/#comment-89411 Pardesi Ban Tue, 26 Sep 2006 01:20:41 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3803#comment-89411 <p>Sigh.</p> <p>It would really help if I was informed before I get banned as to what I am getting banned for.</p> <p>Some sites give three warnings before they ban someone.</p> <p>I don't recall dishing out personal insults like the ones dished out to Dharma Queen from Ananda.</p> <p>Yet spontaneously I find myself banned off and on.</p> <p>Anyway, in keeping with the subject at hand, as requested by Siddhartha, and seeing as how others offered personal accounts of their mixed relationship drama, I will share mine also.</p> <p>I am basically of Irish ancestry with some mediterrenean mixed in.</p> <p>My significant other is African American.</p> <p>I am following a very specific Indian based religious culture whereas my boyfriend is African centric and a follower of the beliefs of ancient Egyptian systems.</p> <p>Although he is climbing the American corporate ladder, his roots are firmly established in the ghetto.</p> <p>Although not a member of NOI (Nation of Islam), he is very much influenced by the idealogies of Elijah Mohammmed and Louis Farrakhan.</p> <p>In essence he could be described as a "black supremist", something he does not deny, though he clarifies it is not "racist", and that would depend on how you define "racist".</p> <p>I personally think he has some racist tendencies towards whites, not as individuals, but WHITE as a concept, or theory.</p> <p>This is a source of many a debate between us, which often gives rise to the seeds of latent racism sprouting in our comments towards each other, which is something I am NOT proud of, as it goes against everything I hold ideal - both spiritually and materially. Nobody has ever pushed my buttons like him.</p> <p>I think many inter-racial couples face this, but oftentimes suppress the issues out of denial or fear of their own demons. We are more open and vocal about it because neither of us are concerned about appearing politically correct to each other.</p> <p>This does not seem to bother him though, as he says it adds fuel to the fire of our passion.</p> <p>Just like some Hindutva-wadis in India who say everything comes from India. He claims everything comes from Africa - including Indian culture!!! That's another debate we engage in.</p> <p>He is not particularly interested in India, it's culture or spirituality - unless I can relate it to Africa.</p> <p>He is not looking forward to going to India with me, using health as an excuse, though he is going to make the trip for my happiness. When I remind him that Africa is not anymore "healthier" than India, he has no comeback, yet he is sooooooo excited about his upcoming trip to Africa, in which he is not taking me along, boo hoo.</p> <p>If we have kids he wants them to go to school in USA (God forbid in our neighborhood) or in Africa.</p> <p>I want them to either be home schooled or go to a private school in India.</p> <p>All of this and I have not even TOUCHED upon what our families think of our union!</p> <p>What to speak of our respective religious groups who would not approve; mine because he is not trodding the path of right conduct according to our traditions, and his because I am not of African blood.</p> <p>Yet, despite all these differences, people who know us say, "you two were made for each other". I don't know if they mean it in a complimentary or insultory way.</p> <p>There are quite a few inter-racial couples in my religious group and they don't have these issues, mainly because both partners are on the same spiritual path, where everything becomes resolved.</p> <p>But being that we are coming from very differing views in that regard - issues come up.</p> <p>Therefore my theory is that as long as both partners share the same religious idealogy in which all beings are considered equal (as per the Bhagavad Gita), then mixed coupling is not very hard to navigate.</p> <p>It's all the extra material concerns; that of a "supremist" ideology, or the influence of one's family and society, that cause the problem - not the race, ethnic background or color of skin.</p> Sigh.

It would really help if I was informed before I get banned as to what I am getting banned for.

Some sites give three warnings before they ban someone.

I don’t recall dishing out personal insults like the ones dished out to Dharma Queen from Ananda.

Yet spontaneously I find myself banned off and on.

Anyway, in keeping with the subject at hand, as requested by Siddhartha, and seeing as how others offered personal accounts of their mixed relationship drama, I will share mine also.

I am basically of Irish ancestry with some mediterrenean mixed in.

My significant other is African American.

I am following a very specific Indian based religious culture whereas my boyfriend is African centric and a follower of the beliefs of ancient Egyptian systems.

Although he is climbing the American corporate ladder, his roots are firmly established in the ghetto.

Although not a member of NOI (Nation of Islam), he is very much influenced by the idealogies of Elijah Mohammmed and Louis Farrakhan.

In essence he could be described as a “black supremist”, something he does not deny, though he clarifies it is not “racist”, and that would depend on how you define “racist”.

I personally think he has some racist tendencies towards whites, not as individuals, but WHITE as a concept, or theory.

This is a source of many a debate between us, which often gives rise to the seeds of latent racism sprouting in our comments towards each other, which is something I am NOT proud of, as it goes against everything I hold ideal – both spiritually and materially. Nobody has ever pushed my buttons like him.

I think many inter-racial couples face this, but oftentimes suppress the issues out of denial or fear of their own demons. We are more open and vocal about it because neither of us are concerned about appearing politically correct to each other.

This does not seem to bother him though, as he says it adds fuel to the fire of our passion.

Just like some Hindutva-wadis in India who say everything comes from India. He claims everything comes from Africa – including Indian culture!!! That’s another debate we engage in.

He is not particularly interested in India, it’s culture or spirituality – unless I can relate it to Africa.

He is not looking forward to going to India with me, using health as an excuse, though he is going to make the trip for my happiness. When I remind him that Africa is not anymore “healthier” than India, he has no comeback, yet he is sooooooo excited about his upcoming trip to Africa, in which he is not taking me along, boo hoo.

If we have kids he wants them to go to school in USA (God forbid in our neighborhood) or in Africa.

I want them to either be home schooled or go to a private school in India.

All of this and I have not even TOUCHED upon what our families think of our union!

What to speak of our respective religious groups who would not approve; mine because he is not trodding the path of right conduct according to our traditions, and his because I am not of African blood.

Yet, despite all these differences, people who know us say, “you two were made for each other”. I don’t know if they mean it in a complimentary or insultory way.

There are quite a few inter-racial couples in my religious group and they don’t have these issues, mainly because both partners are on the same spiritual path, where everything becomes resolved.

But being that we are coming from very differing views in that regard – issues come up.

Therefore my theory is that as long as both partners share the same religious idealogy in which all beings are considered equal (as per the Bhagavad Gita), then mixed coupling is not very hard to navigate.

It’s all the extra material concerns; that of a “supremist” ideology, or the influence of one’s family and society, that cause the problem – not the race, ethnic background or color of skin.

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By: Sriram http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/09/20/mixed_messages_1/comment-page-2/#comment-89403 Sriram Mon, 25 Sep 2006 23:40:46 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3803#comment-89403 <blockquote>So, finally the day has come, next week Tuesday, I tell my parents about my relationship. So everyone - say a prayer for me and spare a thought for me! :)</blockquote> <p>G'luck Priya! I'm sure even if your parents are upset at first, they'll just see how much you obviously care for you boyfriend and then it will be a non-issue.</p> So, finally the day has come, next week Tuesday, I tell my parents about my relationship. So everyone – say a prayer for me and spare a thought for me! :)

G’luck Priya! I’m sure even if your parents are upset at first, they’ll just see how much you obviously care for you boyfriend and then it will be a non-issue.

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By: siddhartha http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/09/20/mixed_messages_1/comment-page-2/#comment-89385 siddhartha Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:39:31 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3803#comment-89385 <p>What the intern said. I've just removed several recent comments. If the people who made those comments really want to discuss the topic of whether white people or black people are more ignorant of desis, they can do that elsewhere. This thread has been a place for people to discuss serious matters about identity -- theirs, that of their childen, etc. People have shared personal material in the trust that this is a safe space and a relevant space that will not be hijacked. Thanks.</p> What the intern said. I’ve just removed several recent comments. If the people who made those comments really want to discuss the topic of whether white people or black people are more ignorant of desis, they can do that elsewhere. This thread has been a place for people to discuss serious matters about identity — theirs, that of their childen, etc. People have shared personal material in the trust that this is a safe space and a relevant space that will not be hijacked. Thanks.

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By: SM Intern http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/09/20/mixed_messages_1/comment-page-2/#comment-89367 SM Intern Mon, 25 Sep 2006 21:43:07 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3803#comment-89367 <p>Please, I can't take another Pardesi vs. Bidi Smoker conversation. It really upsets the mood of the monkeys in our basement. Take it to your own blogs. Thanks.</p> Please, I can’t take another Pardesi vs. Bidi Smoker conversation. It really upsets the mood of the monkeys in our basement. Take it to your own blogs. Thanks.

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By: SM Intern http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/09/20/mixed_messages_1/comment-page-2/#comment-89348 SM Intern Mon, 25 Sep 2006 21:01:25 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3803#comment-89348 <p>If we close a thread it is for good reason. Comments such as the one above do nothing but throw a monkey wrench into another thread. Please refrain from this. Thanks.</p> If we close a thread it is for good reason. Comments such as the one above do nothing but throw a monkey wrench into another thread. Please refrain from this. Thanks.

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By: H1Biyatch http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/09/20/mixed_messages_1/comment-page-2/#comment-89162 H1Biyatch Mon, 25 Sep 2006 05:27:21 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3803#comment-89162 <p>I'm sure she'll lay off those stiletto heels you like, to make your family feel less towered over by Godzilla.</p> I’m sure she’ll lay off those stiletto heels you like, to make your family feel less towered over by Godzilla.

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By: selene http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/09/20/mixed_messages_1/comment-page-2/#comment-88844 selene Sat, 23 Sep 2006 05:04:24 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3803#comment-88844 <p>"Can Scottish and Irish folk, for instance, still claim this type of casual denunciation, this lukewarm acid?" They can and do. The Hungarians and Romanians are apparently mortal enemies. Another case is the Balkan area--all the same people but recent history was of bloody inter-ethnic conflict. I could go on, but as you say, it wanders from the subject of "mixed" people.</p> “Can Scottish and Irish folk, for instance, still claim this type of casual denunciation, this lukewarm acid?” They can and do. The Hungarians and Romanians are apparently mortal enemies. Another case is the Balkan area–all the same people but recent history was of bloody inter-ethnic conflict. I could go on, but as you say, it wanders from the subject of “mixed” people.

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By: anandos, master of mixology http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/09/20/mixed_messages_1/comment-page-2/#comment-88824 anandos, master of mixology Sat, 23 Sep 2006 03:04:40 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3803#comment-88824 <p>With these most recent comments we do seem to be wavering from the topic, but I think it's pretty well established from the repeated testimony of various persons of different ages, ethnic makeup, and social status over the past few years of this weblog that white Americans do indeed show great ignorance about desis. What's more, and this is something that causes me increasing concern as I get older-but-no-wiser, there is an inclination on the part of my white friends to downplay the differences caused by race in this society.</p> <blockquote>Do Indians make assumptions about whites? There are certain nationalities and ethnic groups who would certainly not wish to be mistaken for each other. </blockquote> <p>Perhaps, but the question is asked in such a broad way as to minimise the issue. Of course Indians make assumptions about whites, from my own Anglophonic and Anglophilic (lightly dusted with Portugese) Mangaloreans to the darkest (branch!) Dravidian; and the assumptions differ from each to each. In the end most people aren't malicious, I hope, in their quiet racism; but racist nevertheless they are. One of my aunties would never say a cross word to an African-American, but she did drop such gems as "You don't have much crime where you live - but then, you don't have many blacks, either."</p> <p>Can Scottish and Irish folk, for instance, still claim this type of casual denunciation, this lukewarm acid?</p> With these most recent comments we do seem to be wavering from the topic, but I think it’s pretty well established from the repeated testimony of various persons of different ages, ethnic makeup, and social status over the past few years of this weblog that white Americans do indeed show great ignorance about desis. What’s more, and this is something that causes me increasing concern as I get older-but-no-wiser, there is an inclination on the part of my white friends to downplay the differences caused by race in this society.

Do Indians make assumptions about whites? There are certain nationalities and ethnic groups who would certainly not wish to be mistaken for each other.

Perhaps, but the question is asked in such a broad way as to minimise the issue. Of course Indians make assumptions about whites, from my own Anglophonic and Anglophilic (lightly dusted with Portugese) Mangaloreans to the darkest (branch!) Dravidian; and the assumptions differ from each to each. In the end most people aren’t malicious, I hope, in their quiet racism; but racist nevertheless they are. One of my aunties would never say a cross word to an African-American, but she did drop such gems as “You don’t have much crime where you live – but then, you don’t have many blacks, either.”

Can Scottish and Irish folk, for instance, still claim this type of casual denunciation, this lukewarm acid?

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By: Claire http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/09/20/mixed_messages_1/comment-page-2/#comment-88814 Claire Sat, 23 Sep 2006 01:59:57 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3803#comment-88814 <p>I am from Australia of European ancestry married to a FOB from India. Our marriage was a complete non-issue for both our families. His parents, who live seperately, have both said they prefer my personality to that of my brother-in-law's wife who is Indian, but I think that is because they have had less to do with me. We have two kids, another on the way, and as Sydney is very multi-cultural their generation is full of mixes, so for the time they spend living here it won't make much difference to them I guess. I don't really have much of interest to add to the discussion, but I must say I am quite conscious of their Indian ancestry and find it intersting and ponder it often, espesially as growing up in a country that has no culture of it's own to speak of. Many people, incuding many older Australian's do compliment my kids appearance, which is nice.</p> I am from Australia of European ancestry married to a FOB from India. Our marriage was a complete non-issue for both our families. His parents, who live seperately, have both said they prefer my personality to that of my brother-in-law’s wife who is Indian, but I think that is because they have had less to do with me. We have two kids, another on the way, and as Sydney is very multi-cultural their generation is full of mixes, so for the time they spend living here it won’t make much difference to them I guess. I don’t really have much of interest to add to the discussion, but I must say I am quite conscious of their Indian ancestry and find it intersting and ponder it often, espesially as growing up in a country that has no culture of it’s own to speak of. Many people, incuding many older Australian’s do compliment my kids appearance, which is nice.

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By: selene http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/09/20/mixed_messages_1/comment-page-2/#comment-88773 selene Fri, 22 Sep 2006 23:36:26 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3803#comment-88773 <p>I'm a little surprised and depressed that people are noting some kind of immediate bias towards all dark skinned people, but then when I am in a situation where most people are not white, I can feel bias from them, so perhaps it is a natural part of the human paranoid psycho-mechanism or something. Understandable, but like Branch Dravidian said, most American attitudes about indians are pretty benign. I'm talking about adults, can't answer for idiot school kids who look for reasons to pick fights and are just as nasty to each other as to any "other." Believe it or not, most white Americans (the only kind I know well as a group though I have friends among many races) are aware of the Indian sub-continent and do have a pretty good idea of the variety of looks that come from there, although saris are a dead giveaway. I remember a very blond policeman (don't know why I added that detail--contrast I guess), who had an Indian family to his house for dinner. The little boy of the family saw a picture of an American Indian and said proudly that he was a REAL Indian. The cop said, I know, I know. The cop wasn't any ace in the academic department either.</p> <p>I don't think most people are placing non-white on any sort of hierarchical totem pole, but then I'm not one of the "dark" ones so I don't have that perspective. It is possible that some people relate more easily to those more near themselves in looks, but that is true cross all cultures. Still, I take each person as an individual and once I know someone well, I'd be hard pressed to even describe them physically at all. Their looks make little difference. Most couples who got together in a lustful frenzy, find this out pretty soon. Do Indians make assumptions about whites? There are certain nationalities and ethnic groups who would certainly not wish to be mistaken for each other.</p> I’m a little surprised and depressed that people are noting some kind of immediate bias towards all dark skinned people, but then when I am in a situation where most people are not white, I can feel bias from them, so perhaps it is a natural part of the human paranoid psycho-mechanism or something. Understandable, but like Branch Dravidian said, most American attitudes about indians are pretty benign. I’m talking about adults, can’t answer for idiot school kids who look for reasons to pick fights and are just as nasty to each other as to any “other.” Believe it or not, most white Americans (the only kind I know well as a group though I have friends among many races) are aware of the Indian sub-continent and do have a pretty good idea of the variety of looks that come from there, although saris are a dead giveaway. I remember a very blond policeman (don’t know why I added that detail–contrast I guess), who had an Indian family to his house for dinner. The little boy of the family saw a picture of an American Indian and said proudly that he was a REAL Indian. The cop said, I know, I know. The cop wasn’t any ace in the academic department either.

I don’t think most people are placing non-white on any sort of hierarchical totem pole, but then I’m not one of the “dark” ones so I don’t have that perspective. It is possible that some people relate more easily to those more near themselves in looks, but that is true cross all cultures. Still, I take each person as an individual and once I know someone well, I’d be hard pressed to even describe them physically at all. Their looks make little difference. Most couples who got together in a lustful frenzy, find this out pretty soon. Do Indians make assumptions about whites? There are certain nationalities and ethnic groups who would certainly not wish to be mistaken for each other.

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