Comments on: Interesting Legal Precedents, Vol. 1 http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/28/interesting_leg/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Neena http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/28/interesting_leg/comment-page-1/#comment-83599 Neena Thu, 31 Aug 2006 08:08:35 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3732#comment-83599 <blockquote>The reality is that several underground asymmetrical battles are being waged by Muslims for specific, local causes. The only factor linking these struggles is a common faith. But this does not mean they share some global pan-Islamic vision. A Kashmiri Muslim engaged in a fight for independence has more in common with a Hindu pundit in Srinagar than with a fellow Muslim in Chechnya. When Basque terrorists belonging to ETA, the separatist movement that has been fighting a long and deadly battle for independence from Madrid, strike civilian targets, they are not accused of being part of a Christian movement together with the IRA. Although fighters in both organisations are Catholics, this does not automatically mean that they, or indeed, Peru’s Shining Path guerrillas, are part of some evil papist conspiracy. Similarly, the only thing the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka’s LTTE separatists have in common with India’s Naxalites is their Hindu belief. But this shared faith in no way puts the two groups on the same side. They both have their own agendas and their own methods. Both would resent the label of ‘terrorists’, and insist that they are fighting for just causes.</blockquote> <p>An <a href="http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/mazdak.htm">informative analysis</a></p> The reality is that several underground asymmetrical battles are being waged by Muslims for specific, local causes. The only factor linking these struggles is a common faith. But this does not mean they share some global pan-Islamic vision. A Kashmiri Muslim engaged in a fight for independence has more in common with a Hindu pundit in Srinagar than with a fellow Muslim in Chechnya. When Basque terrorists belonging to ETA, the separatist movement that has been fighting a long and deadly battle for independence from Madrid, strike civilian targets, they are not accused of being part of a Christian movement together with the IRA. Although fighters in both organisations are Catholics, this does not automatically mean that they, or indeed, Peru’s Shining Path guerrillas, are part of some evil papist conspiracy. Similarly, the only thing the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka’s LTTE separatists have in common with India’s Naxalites is their Hindu belief. But this shared faith in no way puts the two groups on the same side. They both have their own agendas and their own methods. Both would resent the label of ‘terrorists’, and insist that they are fighting for just causes.

An informative analysis

]]> By: 焊管 http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/28/interesting_leg/comment-page-1/#comment-83305 焊管 Wed, 30 Aug 2006 10:46:17 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3732#comment-83305 <p><a href="http://www.wuxiwantong.com">焊管</a></p> 焊管

]]> By: Manju http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/28/interesting_leg/comment-page-1/#comment-83118 Manju Tue, 29 Aug 2006 20:43:27 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3732#comment-83118 <blockquote>As a total non-sequitor, it sounds like you're a lawyer, Manju. If you know of anybody in the DC area looking to hire a recent law grad w/ a strong environmental background, drop me an e-mail. </blockquote> <p>sorry Sriram, not a lawyer. but u know, constitutioanlly speaking, you don't need to be one to sit on the supreme court ;-]</p> <p>don't quit your night job.</p> As a total non-sequitor, it sounds like you’re a lawyer, Manju. If you know of anybody in the DC area looking to hire a recent law grad w/ a strong environmental background, drop me an e-mail.

sorry Sriram, not a lawyer. but u know, constitutioanlly speaking, you don’t need to be one to sit on the supreme court ;-]

don’t quit your night job.

]]> By: siddhartha http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/28/interesting_leg/comment-page-1/#comment-83104 siddhartha Tue, 29 Aug 2006 20:05:03 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3732#comment-83104 <p>thanks, AMfD. let's keep an eye on this one... and on the other case, the one of the US citizens not allowed re-entry, which is probably the more far-ranging and scary one.</p> thanks, AMfD. let’s keep an eye on this one… and on the other case, the one of the US citizens not allowed re-entry, which is probably the more far-ranging and scary one.

]]> By: Al Mujahid for debauchery http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/28/interesting_leg/comment-page-1/#comment-83100 Al Mujahid for debauchery Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:59:39 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3732#comment-83100 <p>Siddhartha: The government has charged him with conspiracy. I am waiting for the case to collapse completely once it reaches the Court. However there are some very serious first amnedment issues here. The Act itself carves an exception for first amendment which the government has chosen to ignore and go ahead with the indictment anyway.</p> Siddhartha: The government has charged him with conspiracy. I am waiting for the case to collapse completely once it reaches the Court. However there are some very serious first amnedment issues here. The Act itself carves an exception for first amendment which the government has chosen to ignore and go ahead with the indictment anyway.

]]> By: Al Mujahid for debauchery http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/28/interesting_leg/comment-page-1/#comment-83099 Al Mujahid for debauchery Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:55:37 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3732#comment-83099 <p>Manju: I was making the presumption here for 2 reasons. (1) I am not sure if Manar tv directly collects from small broadcasters around the world. In all likelihood, Manar TV probably sold its world wide rights of broadcasting to some other company which in turn subleases those rights to small companies (or even one big one) and thats how Javed Bhai got the rights. Of course thats pure speculation. (2) The other reason that I believe that no money was exchanged between Hizbullah and Jaced Bhai is because the government has charged Javed with conspiracy to violate the act and not the actual violation of the act. If money was exchanged, the government would have charged him with the actual violation of the act. The conpiracy charge suggests to me that no money was exchanged. I dont know a lot of criminal law, so I might very well be completely wrong.</p> Manju: I was making the presumption here for 2 reasons. (1) I am not sure if Manar tv directly collects from small broadcasters around the world. In all likelihood, Manar TV probably sold its world wide rights of broadcasting to some other company which in turn subleases those rights to small companies (or even one big one) and thats how Javed Bhai got the rights. Of course thats pure speculation. (2) The other reason that I believe that no money was exchanged between Hizbullah and Jaced Bhai is because the government has charged Javed with conspiracy to violate the act and not the actual violation of the act. If money was exchanged, the government would have charged him with the actual violation of the act. The conpiracy charge suggests to me that no money was exchanged. I dont know a lot of criminal law, so I might very well be completely wrong.

]]> By: siddhartha http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/28/interesting_leg/comment-page-1/#comment-83095 siddhartha Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:47:08 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3732#comment-83095 <p>manju: you are correct that this is the crux. it is not clear from <a href="http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=&q=javed+iqbal&btnG=Search+News">current reports</a> whether iqbal had a deal that directed revenues to al-manar. it is in fact not even clear that he distributed al-manar at all, apparently. current media reports have no indication that he actually provided al-manar to any customer or that he had the technical hook-up to do so. apparently he offered to sell the informant a package that explicitly included al-manar, and was arrested on this basis.</p> <p>a number of issues will have to be cleared up:</p> <ul> <li><p>if iqbal actually was providing al-manar, did he do so prior to the channel itself being declared a terrorist organization? and to whom did he pay for the service? al-manar? an aggregator or wholesaler? etc.</p></li> <li><p>if iqbal was not actually providing al-manar, did he have a business arrangement to do so in the near future? or was he making empty promises?</p></li> <li><p>how was the "offer" to provide al-manar obtained? did he make it of his own or was he baited/entrapped into doing so?</p></li> </ul> <p>so we may be looking at a case of existing law vs. first amendment, i.e. a constitutional law case that could end up in the supreme court; or we could be looking at a businessman overpromising on a service, which could end up being a minor form of fraud; or anything in between. notice that the pattern of these "terrorist" arrests in the US in the past few years has been to result in very minor, non-terrorism-related charges, or dismissal.</p> <p>i don't know where this case is going. just trying to make sense of the limited info we've got so far.</p> <p>peace</p> manju: you are correct that this is the crux. it is not clear from current reports whether iqbal had a deal that directed revenues to al-manar. it is in fact not even clear that he distributed al-manar at all, apparently. current media reports have no indication that he actually provided al-manar to any customer or that he had the technical hook-up to do so. apparently he offered to sell the informant a package that explicitly included al-manar, and was arrested on this basis.

a number of issues will have to be cleared up:

  • if iqbal actually was providing al-manar, did he do so prior to the channel itself being declared a terrorist organization? and to whom did he pay for the service? al-manar? an aggregator or wholesaler? etc.

  • if iqbal was not actually providing al-manar, did he have a business arrangement to do so in the near future? or was he making empty promises?

  • how was the “offer” to provide al-manar obtained? did he make it of his own or was he baited/entrapped into doing so?

so we may be looking at a case of existing law vs. first amendment, i.e. a constitutional law case that could end up in the supreme court; or we could be looking at a businessman overpromising on a service, which could end up being a minor form of fraud; or anything in between. notice that the pattern of these “terrorist” arrests in the US in the past few years has been to result in very minor, non-terrorism-related charges, or dismissal.

i don’t know where this case is going. just trying to make sense of the limited info we’ve got so far.

peace

]]> By: Sriram http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/28/interesting_leg/comment-page-1/#comment-83092 Sriram Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:42:56 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3732#comment-83092 <p>I read those cases in law school. But in those cases the people in question received direct payments. It gets a little dicey, in my mind, here because there is no real precedent or guidance on how much involvment is required before an organization can be considered an arm of a terrorist organization.</p> <p>As a total non-sequitor, it sounds like you're a lawyer, Manju. If you know of anybody in the DC area looking to hire a recent law grad w/ a strong environmental background, drop me an e-mail.</p> I read those cases in law school. But in those cases the people in question received direct payments. It gets a little dicey, in my mind, here because there is no real precedent or guidance on how much involvment is required before an organization can be considered an arm of a terrorist organization.

As a total non-sequitor, it sounds like you’re a lawyer, Manju. If you know of anybody in the DC area looking to hire a recent law grad w/ a strong environmental background, drop me an e-mail.

]]> By: Raju http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/28/interesting_leg/comment-page-1/#comment-83090 Raju Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:36:33 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3732#comment-83090 <p>Al Manar News can still be seen on World Link TV on DirecTV every weeknight. Its on a show called Mosaic. If you get a general package on DirecTV you are paying to get Al Manar news.</p> Al Manar News can still be seen on World Link TV on DirecTV every weeknight. Its on a show called Mosaic. If you get a general package on DirecTV you are paying to get Al Manar news.

]]> By: Manju http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/28/interesting_leg/comment-page-1/#comment-83089 Manju Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:35:49 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3732#comment-83089 <blockquote>So does this mean if Jim Lehrer lands an interview with Nassrallah and gives him a forum from which to speak, PBS will be shut down because it aids terrorists? </blockquote> <p>no, this happens all the time. if jim paid nassrallah for the interview it might be a different story, though still iffy constitutionally. i think the courts have ruled that the govt is allowed to control the financial side of consititutioanlly protected speech...like say when they seize the royalties a criminal gets if he writes a book about his crime...but they cannot ban the book. not sure though.</p> So does this mean if Jim Lehrer lands an interview with Nassrallah and gives him a forum from which to speak, PBS will be shut down because it aids terrorists?

no, this happens all the time. if jim paid nassrallah for the interview it might be a different story, though still iffy constitutionally. i think the courts have ruled that the govt is allowed to control the financial side of consititutioanlly protected speech…like say when they seize the royalties a criminal gets if he writes a book about his crime…but they cannot ban the book. not sure though.

]]>