Comments on: On Pakistan’s Independence Day http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/14/on_pakistans_in/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Administrator http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/14/on_pakistans_in/comment-page-3/#comment-79335 Administrator Wed, 16 Aug 2006 08:43:10 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3682#comment-79335 <p>PLEASE DO NOT ADDRESS "ALL MUSLIMS" OR "ALL HINDUS" WITH YOUR COMMENTS. RESPOND TO INDVIDUAL COMMENTS. INTOLERANT COMMENTS WILL BE DELETED AND COMMENTERS BANNED.</p> PLEASE DO NOT ADDRESS “ALL MUSLIMS” OR “ALL HINDUS” WITH YOUR COMMENTS. RESPOND TO INDVIDUAL COMMENTS. INTOLERANT COMMENTS WILL BE DELETED AND COMMENTERS BANNED.

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By: JM http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/14/on_pakistans_in/comment-page-3/#comment-79334 JM Wed, 16 Aug 2006 08:38:10 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3682#comment-79334 <p>I guess this is for the Muslims posting here who claim that Islam is the religion of peace:</p> <p>I want to be a Hindu who has the freedom to worship idols representing different divinities - I believe in the division of labor among divinities too. You can call it the caste system for gods. I also believe that Muhammad is not the seal of the prophets. Whether I believe in Hindu religious concepts is irrelevant. I merely want to preserve the right to worship who/what I want without interference.</p> <p>How do you Muslims believe that a nation full of people like me should be treated? You (Ismat) have stated that the Quran states that there should not be compulsion in religion. Yet, the Quran (2:193) also states otherwise too. Do you believe that the Islamic statements that require a kafir to pay jaziya in a state of humiliation are wrong? Do you believe that the notion that a kafir must either convert to Islam or be killed is wrong?</p> <p>I have read that there are Meccan verses that came earlier and are superseded by the later Medinan verses. During the Meccan period, Muhammad wanted to persuade(primarily) Jews to convert to Islam. But during the later Medinan period, he was militarily powerful enough to not require the path of persuasion. An analogy would be that the US was in an alliance with the Soviets from 1941 through 1945, but fell out and was in a state of hostility after that. It would have been ridiculous to tell an American scientist in say 1965 that he should share secret weaponry with the Soviets because FDR was an ally of Stalin. The people who would make that argument would be either subversive Soviets or disaffected Americans. No loyal American would have made that argument. It would be equally ridiculous to ask a Muslim to follow the Meccan verses when they were overridden by the Medinan verses. Is 2:256 a Meccan or Medinan verse? If it is a Meccan verse, and I have read that it is, isn't it bad form to use it on a kafir?</p> I guess this is for the Muslims posting here who claim that Islam is the religion of peace:

I want to be a Hindu who has the freedom to worship idols representing different divinities – I believe in the division of labor among divinities too. You can call it the caste system for gods. I also believe that Muhammad is not the seal of the prophets. Whether I believe in Hindu religious concepts is irrelevant. I merely want to preserve the right to worship who/what I want without interference.

How do you Muslims believe that a nation full of people like me should be treated? You (Ismat) have stated that the Quran states that there should not be compulsion in religion. Yet, the Quran (2:193) also states otherwise too. Do you believe that the Islamic statements that require a kafir to pay jaziya in a state of humiliation are wrong? Do you believe that the notion that a kafir must either convert to Islam or be killed is wrong?

I have read that there are Meccan verses that came earlier and are superseded by the later Medinan verses. During the Meccan period, Muhammad wanted to persuade(primarily) Jews to convert to Islam. But during the later Medinan period, he was militarily powerful enough to not require the path of persuasion. An analogy would be that the US was in an alliance with the Soviets from 1941 through 1945, but fell out and was in a state of hostility after that. It would have been ridiculous to tell an American scientist in say 1965 that he should share secret weaponry with the Soviets because FDR was an ally of Stalin. The people who would make that argument would be either subversive Soviets or disaffected Americans. No loyal American would have made that argument. It would be equally ridiculous to ask a Muslim to follow the Meccan verses when they were overridden by the Medinan verses. Is 2:256 a Meccan or Medinan verse? If it is a Meccan verse, and I have read that it is, isn’t it bad form to use it on a kafir?

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By: Manju http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/14/on_pakistans_in/comment-page-3/#comment-79330 Manju Wed, 16 Aug 2006 07:38:59 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3682#comment-79330 <p>Well Siddhartha, your reach-out thread has been very...er...informative. It's all very real, maybe a little too real in here.</p> Well Siddhartha, your reach-out thread has been very…er…informative. It’s all very real, maybe a little too real in here.

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By: R. K. Khan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/14/on_pakistans_in/comment-page-3/#comment-79328 R. K. Khan Wed, 16 Aug 2006 07:30:33 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3682#comment-79328 <blockquote>I would draw your attention to some 'interesting' entries on R.K.Khan's blogspot. Some particularly distasteful remarks about Jews struck me. In fact, I feel downright sick to my stomach. I don't know whether rabid antisemitism is enough to get someone banned, but I certainly hope so.</blockquote> <p>I'm not an antisemite. Appellation/Classification <b>Semite</b>, as I am sure you are aware, is inclusive of Arabs as well. I am not an antisemite. <b>I am anti-zionist</b> Feel better?:)</p> I would draw your attention to some ‘interesting’ entries on R.K.Khan’s blogspot. Some particularly distasteful remarks about Jews struck me. In fact, I feel downright sick to my stomach. I don’t know whether rabid antisemitism is enough to get someone banned, but I certainly hope so.

I’m not an antisemite. Appellation/Classification Semite, as I am sure you are aware, is inclusive of Arabs as well. I am not an antisemite. I am anti-zionist Feel better?:)

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By: R. K. Khan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/14/on_pakistans_in/comment-page-3/#comment-79327 R. K. Khan Wed, 16 Aug 2006 07:21:56 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3682#comment-79327 <blockquote>R.K.Khan - with your inflammatory rhetoric, you play straight into the hands of Topcat and those with views like his. Please do not defile your religion by associating it with young male dopes who think their violent and selfish 'martyrdom' will help their countries.</blockquote> <p>How can young Islamic men defend themselves? People are blaming Islam for everything, just what you'd expect given the zealous christian nature of the wests giants, US,UK. The crusade has not ceased for many of these white males. Even Ghandi, son of peace, was not advocating Zionist behaviors. Martyrdom and defense is not something exclusive to the Middle East. Asia should not defend itself? Maybe Topcat is one of those christian zionist evangelists, of whom there are more than 80M in the US alone..</p> R.K.Khan – with your inflammatory rhetoric, you play straight into the hands of Topcat and those with views like his. Please do not defile your religion by associating it with young male dopes who think their violent and selfish ‘martyrdom’ will help their countries.

How can young Islamic men defend themselves? People are blaming Islam for everything, just what you’d expect given the zealous christian nature of the wests giants, US,UK. The crusade has not ceased for many of these white males. Even Ghandi, son of peace, was not advocating Zionist behaviors. Martyrdom and defense is not something exclusive to the Middle East. Asia should not defend itself? Maybe Topcat is one of those christian zionist evangelists, of whom there are more than 80M in the US alone..

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By: Dharma Queen http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/14/on_pakistans_in/comment-page-3/#comment-79326 Dharma Queen Wed, 16 Aug 2006 07:16:18 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3682#comment-79326 <p><b>SM Administrator</b>:</p> <p>I would draw your attention to some 'interesting' entries on R.K.Khan's blogspot. Some particularly distasteful remarks about Jews struck me. In fact, I feel downright sick to my stomach. I don't know whether rabid antisemitism is enough to get someone banned, but I certainly hope so.</p> SM Administrator:

I would draw your attention to some ‘interesting’ entries on R.K.Khan’s blogspot. Some particularly distasteful remarks about Jews struck me. In fact, I feel downright sick to my stomach. I don’t know whether rabid antisemitism is enough to get someone banned, but I certainly hope so.

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By: Kush Tandon http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/14/on_pakistans_in/comment-page-3/#comment-79325 Kush Tandon Wed, 16 Aug 2006 07:14:19 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3682#comment-79325 <p><i>Kabuli baba sounds a lot like Kabuliwallah - a wonderful story by Tagore,</i></p> <p>My bad, I meant Kabuliwallah. It was a typo, and also parts I got confused from a children's song in India.</p> <p>People hardly talk about Badshah Khan, and Kabuliwallah these days. The only one recently I heard from in English language media is <b>Amartya Sen</b> who wrote an Op-ed in New York Times 4-5 years ago and discussed all this. He even mentioned Kabuliwallah.</p> <p>When Badshah Khan died, even the Soviet artillery was quiet so that the Pathans could mourn.</p> Kabuli baba sounds a lot like Kabuliwallah – a wonderful story by Tagore,

My bad, I meant Kabuliwallah. It was a typo, and also parts I got confused from a children’s song in India.

People hardly talk about Badshah Khan, and Kabuliwallah these days. The only one recently I heard from in English language media is Amartya Sen who wrote an Op-ed in New York Times 4-5 years ago and discussed all this. He even mentioned Kabuliwallah.

When Badshah Khan died, even the Soviet artillery was quiet so that the Pathans could mourn.

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By: Dharma Queen http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/14/on_pakistans_in/comment-page-3/#comment-79324 Dharma Queen Wed, 16 Aug 2006 07:05:09 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3682#comment-79324 <p>Kush,</p> <p>Kabuli baba sounds a lot like Kabuliwallah - a wonderful story by Tagore, about a fruitseller from Kabul, stuck in Kolkata in order to make a living, and who is separated from his five year old daughter. He forms a bond with a little Hindu girl, who buys fruit from him. The Kabuliwallah, who keeps a handprint of his little daughter in his pocket, gets thrown into jail for something and comes out years later. In the last scene, he runs into the Hindu girl, now about to get married, who no longer recognizes him - as, Tagore implies, his own daughter will not. Heartbreaking. Is it the same story?</p> Kush,

Kabuli baba sounds a lot like Kabuliwallah – a wonderful story by Tagore, about a fruitseller from Kabul, stuck in Kolkata in order to make a living, and who is separated from his five year old daughter. He forms a bond with a little Hindu girl, who buys fruit from him. The Kabuliwallah, who keeps a handprint of his little daughter in his pocket, gets thrown into jail for something and comes out years later. In the last scene, he runs into the Hindu girl, now about to get married, who no longer recognizes him – as, Tagore implies, his own daughter will not. Heartbreaking. Is it the same story?

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By: R.K. Khan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/14/on_pakistans_in/comment-page-3/#comment-79323 R.K. Khan Wed, 16 Aug 2006 07:04:43 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3682#comment-79323 <p>Topcat is not a scholar in this matter and so should keep his fingers away from the keyboard. Even Islamic scholars are having some trouble interpreting the message; but you, like an <u>american or english ignoramus</u>, think it's all as simple as looking at a translation and that is it. Boy, don't try to stir trouble. I have become inflamed on too many sites by people of your ilk. You are here for trouble rather than debate, I can see.</p> Topcat is not a scholar in this matter and so should keep his fingers away from the keyboard. Even Islamic scholars are having some trouble interpreting the message; but you, like an american or english ignoramus, think it’s all as simple as looking at a translation and that is it. Boy, don’t try to stir trouble. I have become inflamed on too many sites by people of your ilk. You are here for trouble rather than debate, I can see.

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By: Dharma Queen http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/14/on_pakistans_in/comment-page-3/#comment-79322 Dharma Queen Wed, 16 Aug 2006 06:57:27 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3682#comment-79322 <p>R.K.Khan - with your inflammatory rhetoric, you play straight into the hands of Topcat and those with views like his. Please do not defile your religion by associating it with young male dopes who think their violent and selfish 'martyrdom' will help their countries.</p> R.K.Khan – with your inflammatory rhetoric, you play straight into the hands of Topcat and those with views like his. Please do not defile your religion by associating it with young male dopes who think their violent and selfish ‘martyrdom’ will help their countries.

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