Comments on: Liquid explosives http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/10/liquid_explosiv/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Andy http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/10/liquid_explosiv/comment-page-1/#comment-237282 Andy Mon, 13 Apr 2009 04:52:54 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3672#comment-237282 <p>Good call Charles.</p> Good call Charles.

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By: Charles Barnard http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/10/liquid_explosiv/comment-page-1/#comment-79158 Charles Barnard Tue, 15 Aug 2006 22:59:07 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3672#comment-79158 <p>1) Triacetone triperoxide (TATP) is not a particularily easy explosive to make safely, however, it is extremely unstable if manufactured at elevated temperatures--normal manufacture would entail several hours. Quickly mixing ingredients might well produce an explosion, but the size and force would be unpredictable.</p> <p>2) Fingernail polish, as sold retail, has enough impurities in it to make it a poor choice for acetone source for the manufacture of TATP--but it would be easy enough to refill a bottle with pure acetone.</p> <p>3) These are technically HE (high explosives) and a very small amount, properly placed could bring down an aircraft. There are an infinite number of ways to get small amounts of anything on board an airplane (witness the notable ability of the Homeland Security airport security 'testers' to get onboard with guns despite searches and metal detectors.</p> <p>4) Mind you, the 9/11 skyjackers took over aircraft with what were essentially <em>razor_blades</em> a sharpened piece of plastic or a stick pen would have been as effective.</p> <p>5) The only "taste test" which will work for detecting such things is if the GUARD does the tasting, a little training and a person can control their reaction to most of these liquids--even strong acids.</p> <p>6) These guys were hiding the stuff in a false bottom anyway, they could have poured and drunk half the bottle without any effects--there would have been nothing in the poured liquid but what was marked on the bottle.</p> <p>7) Smugglers are <em>still</em> bringing stuff across boarders even with tight security, the same methods can work for explosives that work for cocaine, diamonds etc..</p> <p>8) The next step for terrorists is to determine how to create a weapon out of materials already on board the plane....</p> <p>You want to stop terrorists, then stop the social causes of terrorism. This is <em>not</em> a technical problem, it is a social problem, and technology can only provide stop-gap measures. To stop terrorism, you <em>must</em> stop the underlying social causes.</p> <p>Strip 'em down, knock 'em out, ship them as freight--a determined person can get nearly anything on board any transport--especially if they are willing to die.</p> 1) Triacetone triperoxide (TATP) is not a particularily easy explosive to make safely, however, it is extremely unstable if manufactured at elevated temperatures–normal manufacture would entail several hours. Quickly mixing ingredients might well produce an explosion, but the size and force would be unpredictable.

2) Fingernail polish, as sold retail, has enough impurities in it to make it a poor choice for acetone source for the manufacture of TATP–but it would be easy enough to refill a bottle with pure acetone.

3) These are technically HE (high explosives) and a very small amount, properly placed could bring down an aircraft. There are an infinite number of ways to get small amounts of anything on board an airplane (witness the notable ability of the Homeland Security airport security ‘testers’ to get onboard with guns despite searches and metal detectors.

4) Mind you, the 9/11 skyjackers took over aircraft with what were essentially razor_blades a sharpened piece of plastic or a stick pen would have been as effective.

5) The only “taste test” which will work for detecting such things is if the GUARD does the tasting, a little training and a person can control their reaction to most of these liquids–even strong acids.

6) These guys were hiding the stuff in a false bottom anyway, they could have poured and drunk half the bottle without any effects–there would have been nothing in the poured liquid but what was marked on the bottle.

7) Smugglers are still bringing stuff across boarders even with tight security, the same methods can work for explosives that work for cocaine, diamonds etc..

8) The next step for terrorists is to determine how to create a weapon out of materials already on board the plane….

You want to stop terrorists, then stop the social causes of terrorism. This is not a technical problem, it is a social problem, and technology can only provide stop-gap measures. To stop terrorism, you must stop the underlying social causes.

Strip ‘em down, knock ‘em out, ship them as freight–a determined person can get nearly anything on board any transport–especially if they are willing to die.

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By: Chabuka http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/10/liquid_explosiv/comment-page-1/#comment-78673 Chabuka Sun, 13 Aug 2006 21:26:28 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3672#comment-78673 <p>The whole idea is asinine...it would have been so much easier to put plastic explosives in their baggage, check it...(baggage and cargo that is "checked" at the ticket counter, go in the "cargo hold" and is not run through security..they say maybe about 5% is actually physically checked and they do not x-ray or swab (for explosives) in cargo..takes to long..you could put it in a laptop..for instance) get on the plane with a cell phone and detonate it with your cell phone....just like they did in Spain....why even try to smuggle "liquid explosives" on board...?</p> The whole idea is asinine…it would have been so much easier to put plastic explosives in their baggage, check it…(baggage and cargo that is “checked” at the ticket counter, go in the “cargo hold” and is not run through security..they say maybe about 5% is actually physically checked and they do not x-ray or swab (for explosives) in cargo..takes to long..you could put it in a laptop..for instance) get on the plane with a cell phone and detonate it with your cell phone….just like they did in Spain….why even try to smuggle “liquid explosives” on board…?

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By: Ennis http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/10/liquid_explosiv/comment-page-1/#comment-78332 Ennis Fri, 11 Aug 2006 15:16:32 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3672#comment-78332 <p>Rupinder - I understand your concern but in the states the New York Times has an explanation of how TATP is made, using nail polish and commercial hydrogen peroxide. This information is all over the American media right now. I included it as a service to our readers who wondered how real the threat of a liquid explosive was and what form it might take. All of this information is widely available in far more detailed forms.</p> Rupinder – I understand your concern but in the states the New York Times has an explanation of how TATP is made, using nail polish and commercial hydrogen peroxide. This information is all over the American media right now. I included it as a service to our readers who wondered how real the threat of a liquid explosive was and what form it might take. All of this information is widely available in far more detailed forms.

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By: Rupinder http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/10/liquid_explosiv/comment-page-1/#comment-78320 Rupinder Fri, 11 Aug 2006 14:10:52 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3672#comment-78320 <p>I work for UK Police. Even metioning the names of liquids here, let alone describing them is surely letting potentials murderers know how to make them?</p> I work for UK Police. Even metioning the names of liquids here, let alone describing them is surely letting potentials murderers know how to make them?

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By: Mr Kobayashi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/10/liquid_explosiv/comment-page-1/#comment-78289 Mr Kobayashi Fri, 11 Aug 2006 03:23:21 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3672#comment-78289 <p>Any Wu fans out there? Somehow, I've been listening to GZA's <b>Liquid Swords</b> all day. Masterful.</p> <p><i>I'm overwhelmed, as my mind roams the realm My eye's the vision, memory is the film Others act subtle, but they fragile above clouds They act wild and couldn't budge a crowd</i></p> <p>Hmm. Inscrutable. But the RZA-produced beats are ill, and every song is as tight as a metaphor I can't use in polite company. Just don't sing this stuff out loud as you make your way through the airport. "I drop megaton bombs more faster than you blink/ Cause rhyme thoughts travel at a tremendous speed." Nice sentiment, but the poetry might be lost on Homeland Security.</p> <p>Of course, the Brits have this problem solved: no iPods on flights. An entire generation is about to be bored out of their everloving minds.</p> Any Wu fans out there? Somehow, I’ve been listening to GZA’s Liquid Swords all day. Masterful.

I’m overwhelmed, as my mind roams the realm My eye’s the vision, memory is the film Others act subtle, but they fragile above clouds They act wild and couldn’t budge a crowd

Hmm. Inscrutable. But the RZA-produced beats are ill, and every song is as tight as a metaphor I can’t use in polite company. Just don’t sing this stuff out loud as you make your way through the airport. “I drop megaton bombs more faster than you blink/ Cause rhyme thoughts travel at a tremendous speed.” Nice sentiment, but the poetry might be lost on Homeland Security.

Of course, the Brits have this problem solved: no iPods on flights. An entire generation is about to be bored out of their everloving minds.

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By: ads http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/10/liquid_explosiv/comment-page-1/#comment-78282 ads Fri, 11 Aug 2006 02:20:41 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3672#comment-78282 <blockquote>if you're ready to committ suicide ina few hours, what's the problem with swigging a shot of nasty chemical?</blockquote> <p><a href="http://www.slate.com/id/2147500/">No problem</a>, apparently.</p> if you’re ready to committ suicide ina few hours, what’s the problem with swigging a shot of nasty chemical?

No problem, apparently.

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By: Saheli http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/10/liquid_explosiv/comment-page-1/#comment-78281 Saheli Fri, 11 Aug 2006 01:34:54 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3672#comment-78281 <p>After 9/11 for about a year, I was always searched twice, once also at the gate, and always had to take a swig from all my bottles of water. I can see why toilettries would be harder to test that way. I'm also not so sure that's a good test---if you're ready to committ suicide ina few hours, what's the problem with swigging a shot of nasty chemical?</p> After 9/11 for about a year, I was always searched twice, once also at the gate, and always had to take a swig from all my bottles of water. I can see why toilettries would be harder to test that way. I’m also not so sure that’s a good test—if you’re ready to committ suicide ina few hours, what’s the problem with swigging a shot of nasty chemical?

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By: Kingsley Joseph http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/10/liquid_explosiv/comment-page-1/#comment-78277 Kingsley Joseph Fri, 11 Aug 2006 00:10:14 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3672#comment-78277 <p>Say hello to stinky facehole after 18 hrs in a flight from Madras. Immigration officers are going to be up in arms soon.</p> Say hello to stinky facehole after 18 hrs in a flight from Madras. Immigration officers are going to be up in arms soon.

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By: Nara http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/08/10/liquid_explosiv/comment-page-1/#comment-78168 Nara Thu, 10 Aug 2006 18:35:33 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3672#comment-78168 <p>Ennis, I agree. I do not know where Andrew Sullivan got his info from.</p> Ennis, I agree. I do not know where Andrew Sullivan got his info from.

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