Comments on: ABCDownloaders: A Survey, of sorts http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/07/28/abcdownloaders/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Niki http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/07/28/abcdownloaders/comment-page-2/#comment-213148 Niki Fri, 22 Aug 2008 09:08:23 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3630#comment-213148 <blockquote>I'll be honest - if it's an artist/group that's more independent, I'll make sure to buy their CD, even if I get the songs initially in other forms. However, if it's Hindi music, I really don't give a crap. I can go to a store and buy the CD for $5 (which will be pirated), I can ask a friend for the songs, or I can download them online for free. </blockquote> <p>Very true. There are so many indie bands like Alms for Shanti, Thermal and a Quarter, Avial, Fossils (just the four on the top of my mind, there are so many many more) that are pure brilliance with some amazing original music. I wouldn't mind paying a decent price (18 bucks a CD, did someone say?) for good music like this. As far as the rest of the tripe that bombay, madras and bangalore put out as filmi music... well, I'd rather save my money for those cool DKNY shoes I saw down at East Village. :D</p> I’ll be honest – if it’s an artist/group that’s more independent, I’ll make sure to buy their CD, even if I get the songs initially in other forms. However, if it’s Hindi music, I really don’t give a crap. I can go to a store and buy the CD for $5 (which will be pirated), I can ask a friend for the songs, or I can download them online for free.

Very true. There are so many indie bands like Alms for Shanti, Thermal and a Quarter, Avial, Fossils (just the four on the top of my mind, there are so many many more) that are pure brilliance with some amazing original music. I wouldn’t mind paying a decent price (18 bucks a CD, did someone say?) for good music like this. As far as the rest of the tripe that bombay, madras and bangalore put out as filmi music… well, I’d rather save my money for those cool DKNY shoes I saw down at East Village. :D

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By: Kush Tandon http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/07/28/abcdownloaders/comment-page-2/#comment-76715 Kush Tandon Wed, 02 Aug 2006 06:15:35 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3630#comment-76715 <p><b>Two Indian music critic podcasters:</b></p> <p>1) <a href="http://indianmusic.libsyn.com/">Amit Varshneya</a></p> <p>2) <a href="http://taraana-keos.blogspot.com/">Radioactive Ray</a>. He is also DJ for a radion station in College Station/ Bryan.</p> <p>Give them a try. I know both of them in person - coincidently from same place, Roorkee.</p> Two Indian music critic podcasters:

1) Amit Varshneya

2) Radioactive Ray. He is also DJ for a radion station in College Station/ Bryan.

Give them a try. I know both of them in person – coincidently from same place, Roorkee.

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By: DJ Drrrty Poonjabi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/07/28/abcdownloaders/comment-page-2/#comment-76514 DJ Drrrty Poonjabi Tue, 01 Aug 2006 13:38:48 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3630#comment-76514 <p>Great link Saurav: so many aspiring musicians (including myself at one point) are completely oblivious to how soul-crushing the recording industry can be. They may be the evil-incarnate hellbent on exploiting and repackaging the creativity of doe-eyed college kids with a guitar in their hand and a tune in their head, but they still hold the key to turning that dream into commercial success. The internet easily solves the problem of distribution and promotion that would stifle most independent artists, but even with the advent of the internet and peer to peer filesharing, I'm hard-pressed to name a single band that has become a commercial success and household name without the aid of the recording industry. A friend of mine's band, <a href="http://www.myspace.com/thrivingivory">Thriving Ivory</a>, has been able to garner a comfortable amount of publicity and popularity through their Myspace and support from local radio stations. They've had their single played on continuous rotation and have already opened up for big bands like The Violent Femmes and Counting Crows, but, without a record contract, they're likely to remain a relatively local phenonmen and thousands of dollars in debt.</p> <p><a href="http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:FEYnsW49w2AJ:www2.cddc.vt.edu/www.eff.org/cafe/cafe_kriz1.html+madonna+earn+per+CD&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3&client=firefox-a">Here's </a>another interesting read on how much an artist actually makes on the sale of his/her CD:</p> <p>"Profit margin is also huge concern for an artist at any level, but especially for one just busting into the business. Right now, the typical contract deal for a new artist goes something like this: the artist agrees to a deal where she doesn't even begin to see a profit unless her CD sells at least 500,000 copies. Even then, she will likely earn only about $1 per CD. And if she doesn't sell at least 100,000 CD's often big companies will drop her anyway.</p> <p>The musician who sells artist-to-fan direct, over the Internet, can earn $7-10 a CD, and can actually make living selling far fewer CD's. Not to mention the fact that SHE maintains control of the distribution of her art."</p> <p>I don't know how much of what I wrote concerns artists working in India, though I will surmise that musicians the world over see the majority of the profit from their work going into the pockets of others, download or no download.</p> Great link Saurav: so many aspiring musicians (including myself at one point) are completely oblivious to how soul-crushing the recording industry can be. They may be the evil-incarnate hellbent on exploiting and repackaging the creativity of doe-eyed college kids with a guitar in their hand and a tune in their head, but they still hold the key to turning that dream into commercial success. The internet easily solves the problem of distribution and promotion that would stifle most independent artists, but even with the advent of the internet and peer to peer filesharing, I’m hard-pressed to name a single band that has become a commercial success and household name without the aid of the recording industry. A friend of mine’s band, Thriving Ivory, has been able to garner a comfortable amount of publicity and popularity through their Myspace and support from local radio stations. They’ve had their single played on continuous rotation and have already opened up for big bands like The Violent Femmes and Counting Crows, but, without a record contract, they’re likely to remain a relatively local phenonmen and thousands of dollars in debt.

Here’s another interesting read on how much an artist actually makes on the sale of his/her CD:

“Profit margin is also huge concern for an artist at any level, but especially for one just busting into the business. Right now, the typical contract deal for a new artist goes something like this: the artist agrees to a deal where she doesn’t even begin to see a profit unless her CD sells at least 500,000 copies. Even then, she will likely earn only about $1 per CD. And if she doesn’t sell at least 100,000 CD’s often big companies will drop her anyway.

The musician who sells artist-to-fan direct, over the Internet, can earn $7-10 a CD, and can actually make living selling far fewer CD’s. Not to mention the fact that SHE maintains control of the distribution of her art.”

I don’t know how much of what I wrote concerns artists working in India, though I will surmise that musicians the world over see the majority of the profit from their work going into the pockets of others, download or no download.

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By: zimblymallu http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/07/28/abcdownloaders/comment-page-2/#comment-76245 zimblymallu Mon, 31 Jul 2006 16:06:15 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3630#comment-76245 <p>I used to download a lot of music when I was younger. I felt quite within my rights as part of the subversive collective to stick it to the man that way. It was also the only way to get access to a lot of music that was just not carried in the usual music stores. There was also a problem with cash flow.</p> <p>These days I don't download at all. All the music I listen to is from online radio or pandora.com. You can almost always find online any song you want to listen to. This way I don't have to buy a 320 gb hdd. Is what I do less ethical than buying the cd?</p> I used to download a lot of music when I was younger. I felt quite within my rights as part of the subversive collective to stick it to the man that way. It was also the only way to get access to a lot of music that was just not carried in the usual music stores. There was also a problem with cash flow.

These days I don’t download at all. All the music I listen to is from online radio or pandora.com. You can almost always find online any song you want to listen to. This way I don’t have to buy a 320 gb hdd. Is what I do less ethical than buying the cd?

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By: The Chocolate Brownie in Mango Milkshake http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/07/28/abcdownloaders/comment-page-2/#comment-76191 The Chocolate Brownie in Mango Milkshake Mon, 31 Jul 2006 04:52:16 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3630#comment-76191 <p>For those looking for legal desi-mp3 downloads, thought I'd mention emusic.com They seem to have a fairly decent collection of restored HMV oldies; I (legally) downloaded a few Mohd Rafi songs in those free fifty downloads.</p> <p>But otherwise... raaga.com / musicindiaonline.com , although I don't mind occassionally trekking down to Little India (ah, the pleasures of South East Asia) to survey the contemporary filmi scene.</p> <p>But as a general point, I think morality is rather overblown when it comes to copyright infringement; personally, the debate between contra-legal downloading and legal buying is that of taste (do you REALLY want to wade through all those irritating IRC/ torrent tracker sites to get your moolah?) and convenience.</p> For those looking for legal desi-mp3 downloads, thought I’d mention emusic.com They seem to have a fairly decent collection of restored HMV oldies; I (legally) downloaded a few Mohd Rafi songs in those free fifty downloads.

But otherwise… raaga.com / musicindiaonline.com , although I don’t mind occassionally trekking down to Little India (ah, the pleasures of South East Asia) to survey the contemporary filmi scene.

But as a general point, I think morality is rather overblown when it comes to copyright infringement; personally, the debate between contra-legal downloading and legal buying is that of taste (do you REALLY want to wade through all those irritating IRC/ torrent tracker sites to get your moolah?) and convenience.

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By: ash58 http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/07/28/abcdownloaders/comment-page-2/#comment-76003 ash58 Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:23:36 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3630#comment-76003 <blockquote>for the really good punjabi mixes, there are tons of them circulating on the net for free or i guess illegally.</blockquote> <p>i agree with <b>jatin</b>. a lot of underdog djs put really good remixes up on filesharing sites and i doubt they ever get marketed on cds or other legal venues. punjabi mixes are very common, however, and often times you can find them in the store. i think that dl-ing is most convenient when you want remixes of rarer songs, like marathi pop or unusual hip-hop/rap mixes (not the typical d&b, techno, or ska). hell, it took me a year to finally find the <i>dhagala lagli kara</i> mix i wanted and it only happened after i gave up on the <i>desi</i> music stores in cerritos and edison and resorted to a filesharing program!</p> <p>with respect to the financial hit that the music industry takes from illegal DL-ing, musicians are more affected than record companies since the money they make is directly proportional to how much they sell. distributors, however, seem to be resilient in that sense because they have many other sources to compensate for losses. i think that musicians/legal filesharing companies should make a deal with corporations or universities (like my college does) where the company gets a corporate subscription to, say, napster and employees and students can download for free while affiliated with them (or for a heavily subsidized fee). besides, it's all about good business and i'm sure madonna would prefer the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyphy#Slang">gouda</a> from thousands of DLs by users from a large company versus the sporadic "moral" DLs from individuals who actually pay full price for napster. cuz we all know paying $15/month for napster is just plain extra when there are hardly that many songs-worth to DL in one month.</p> <p>c'mon people, music is a form of communication. as a musician myself, i believe it should be shared and made accessible to all tiers of society. throughout history, music has been what unites humanity, and there have always been ways that music has been kept from the broke people and that's just wrong. we are the world, we are the people and we were meant to live for so much more. <em>you down wit D-L-ing, yeah you kno' me...</em> now i ain't sayin' i'm a golddigga', but can't you snap ya' fingahz, to the beat y'all without having the law on your a$$?</p> for the really good punjabi mixes, there are tons of them circulating on the net for free or i guess illegally.

i agree with jatin. a lot of underdog djs put really good remixes up on filesharing sites and i doubt they ever get marketed on cds or other legal venues. punjabi mixes are very common, however, and often times you can find them in the store. i think that dl-ing is most convenient when you want remixes of rarer songs, like marathi pop or unusual hip-hop/rap mixes (not the typical d&b, techno, or ska). hell, it took me a year to finally find the dhagala lagli kara mix i wanted and it only happened after i gave up on the desi music stores in cerritos and edison and resorted to a filesharing program!

with respect to the financial hit that the music industry takes from illegal DL-ing, musicians are more affected than record companies since the money they make is directly proportional to how much they sell. distributors, however, seem to be resilient in that sense because they have many other sources to compensate for losses. i think that musicians/legal filesharing companies should make a deal with corporations or universities (like my college does) where the company gets a corporate subscription to, say, napster and employees and students can download for free while affiliated with them (or for a heavily subsidized fee). besides, it’s all about good business and i’m sure madonna would prefer the gouda from thousands of DLs by users from a large company versus the sporadic “moral” DLs from individuals who actually pay full price for napster. cuz we all know paying $15/month for napster is just plain extra when there are hardly that many songs-worth to DL in one month.

c’mon people, music is a form of communication. as a musician myself, i believe it should be shared and made accessible to all tiers of society. throughout history, music has been what unites humanity, and there have always been ways that music has been kept from the broke people and that’s just wrong. we are the world, we are the people and we were meant to live for so much more. you down wit D-L-ing, yeah you kno’ me… now i ain’t sayin’ i’m a golddigga’, but can’t you snap ya’ fingahz, to the beat y’all without having the law on your a$$?

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By: Jatin http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/07/28/abcdownloaders/comment-page-2/#comment-75985 Jatin Sat, 29 Jul 2006 12:41:53 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3630#comment-75985 <p>who buys hindi music? This is atleast true for the really good punjabi mixes, there are tons of them circulating on the net for free or i guess illegally.</p> who buys hindi music? This is atleast true for the really good punjabi mixes, there are tons of them circulating on the net for free or i guess illegally.

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By: Nanda Kishore http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/07/28/abcdownloaders/comment-page-2/#comment-75929 Nanda Kishore Sat, 29 Jul 2006 05:04:23 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3630#comment-75929 <p><i>I spend $1.69 (AUD) per song at itunes Australia...</i></p> <p>If you use P2P on the other hand,...</p> <p>Not advocating anything, just saying there's other ways :)</p> I spend $1.69 (AUD) per song at itunes Australia…

If you use P2P on the other hand,…

Not advocating anything, just saying there’s other ways :)

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By: Ladki http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/07/28/abcdownloaders/comment-page-2/#comment-75928 Ladki Sat, 29 Jul 2006 04:58:10 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3630#comment-75928 <p>I spend $1.69 (AUD) per song at itunes Australia, so I hope Manish's friend hurries up with the desi version (and that I'll be able to download the songs here in Oz. It was a long frustrating wait for itunes to arrive here!). I normally spend around $15-$18 every 2-3 months downloading songs from itunes.</p> I spend $1.69 (AUD) per song at itunes Australia, so I hope Manish’s friend hurries up with the desi version (and that I’ll be able to download the songs here in Oz. It was a long frustrating wait for itunes to arrive here!). I normally spend around $15-$18 every 2-3 months downloading songs from itunes.

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By: Nanda Kishore http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/07/28/abcdownloaders/comment-page-2/#comment-75926 Nanda Kishore Sat, 29 Jul 2006 04:44:40 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3630#comment-75926 <h1>70: They rid playlists - I meant rig, of course.</h1> <p>I hear you JOAT, and I agree they don't have to, but I wonder how many good artists fall by the wayside just because some exec thought about how marketable the whole package was. That's what it has boiled down to for the most part, I think. At least when I look at songs on the charts, that's the impression I get. There are exceptions of course. In the Indian context, playback singers don't really do anything else unless they're involved in the composition (as in Shankar of Shankar/Ehsaan/Loy or even Rehman), but everyone knows who's doing the hard work behind the scenes.</p> 70: They rid playlists – I meant rig, of course.

I hear you JOAT, and I agree they don’t have to, but I wonder how many good artists fall by the wayside just because some exec thought about how marketable the whole package was. That’s what it has boiled down to for the most part, I think. At least when I look at songs on the charts, that’s the impression I get. There are exceptions of course. In the Indian context, playback singers don’t really do anything else unless they’re involved in the composition (as in Shankar of Shankar/Ehsaan/Loy or even Rehman), but everyone knows who’s doing the hard work behind the scenes.

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