Comments on: Where’d you get those peepers … http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/06/25/whered_you_get/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Rehaan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/06/25/whered_you_get/comment-page-1/#comment-96399 Rehaan Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:29:44 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3516#comment-96399 <p>Well, I'm a Muslim born to a practising Brahmin mother and have closely participated in her observance of Hindu rituals. When my grandmother (Nani) passed away, I did go to the cremation ground where my uncle (mama) performed the last rites.The Kapal Kriya was a disturbing and yet most awe-inspring ritual. Although sometimes, the skull bursts on its own and doesn't require any external agency to facilitate it.</p> <p>What disturbed me was the way the people there use the body as "fuel" for the wood, taking a leaf out of the Hindu belief that 'The Body' is just an ephemeral mixture of the five elements to which it must return, and the soul is the actual unborn existence(atma, a part of the Param Atma and union of the two becoming the goal of the human soul)...hence they literally broke my Nani's pelvic bones and skwered the body a couple of times to make the woods burn faster. My relatives on my Mum's side told me that it is common to do this, lest the body remain partially unburnt. Similarly, a man's rib cage is 'worked upon' with bamboo sticks.Although several people were disturbed( I positively screamed my lungs out), people let these people 'do their work'....</p> <p>But nowadays, a lot of practising Hindus are donating organs despite religious silence on the issue(no Hindu text composed 4000 years ago censure organ donations simply because there was no knowledge of it at that time).Its a good start.My Dad's side of the family has a more vehenment opposition to eye-donation because Muslims believe in the concept of Judegement Day, when souls will rise from their graves to meet their maker nad their final destiny, a deeply cherished dream which practising Muslims, Christians and Jews who hold it dear to their heart and need their eyes for that. Hence their specific oppsition to eye donation!</p> Well, I’m a Muslim born to a practising Brahmin mother and have closely participated in her observance of Hindu rituals. When my grandmother (Nani) passed away, I did go to the cremation ground where my uncle (mama) performed the last rites.The Kapal Kriya was a disturbing and yet most awe-inspring ritual. Although sometimes, the skull bursts on its own and doesn’t require any external agency to facilitate it.

What disturbed me was the way the people there use the body as “fuel” for the wood, taking a leaf out of the Hindu belief that ‘The Body’ is just an ephemeral mixture of the five elements to which it must return, and the soul is the actual unborn existence(atma, a part of the Param Atma and union of the two becoming the goal of the human soul)…hence they literally broke my Nani’s pelvic bones and skwered the body a couple of times to make the woods burn faster. My relatives on my Mum’s side told me that it is common to do this, lest the body remain partially unburnt. Similarly, a man’s rib cage is ‘worked upon’ with bamboo sticks.Although several people were disturbed( I positively screamed my lungs out), people let these people ‘do their work’….

But nowadays, a lot of practising Hindus are donating organs despite religious silence on the issue(no Hindu text composed 4000 years ago censure organ donations simply because there was no knowledge of it at that time).Its a good start.My Dad’s side of the family has a more vehenment opposition to eye-donation because Muslims believe in the concept of Judegement Day, when souls will rise from their graves to meet their maker nad their final destiny, a deeply cherished dream which practising Muslims, Christians and Jews who hold it dear to their heart and need their eyes for that. Hence their specific oppsition to eye donation!

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By: vivek (aka Madurai Vivekan) http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/06/25/whered_you_get/comment-page-1/#comment-70045 vivek (aka Madurai Vivekan) Tue, 27 Jun 2006 22:33:05 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3516#comment-70045 <p>My grandfather in Chennai chose to donate his eyes. When he died and the hospital came to collect them, they asked my family to put a line in his obituary to say that he had donated his eyes because they're trying to publicise and promote the practice as much as possible to encourage more people to do it.</p> <p>I wasn't there for the funeral, but I was told that after they removed the eyes, they did an excellent job of preparing the body to ensure that it was impossible just by looking to tell that the eyes had been removed.</p> My grandfather in Chennai chose to donate his eyes. When he died and the hospital came to collect them, they asked my family to put a line in his obituary to say that he had donated his eyes because they’re trying to publicise and promote the practice as much as possible to encourage more people to do it.

I wasn’t there for the funeral, but I was told that after they removed the eyes, they did an excellent job of preparing the body to ensure that it was impossible just by looking to tell that the eyes had been removed.

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By: Ennis http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/06/25/whered_you_get/comment-page-1/#comment-70043 Ennis Tue, 27 Jun 2006 22:25:11 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3516#comment-70043 <p>Jai, you know better than I that all sorts of practices with little theological affinity to Sikhism are routine amongst Sikhs. It was more of a sociological point - I'm pretty sure that Sikhs don't do Kapala Kriya.</p> Jai, you know better than I that all sorts of practices with little theological affinity to Sikhism are routine amongst Sikhs. It was more of a sociological point – I’m pretty sure that Sikhs don’t do Kapala Kriya.

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By: Jai http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/06/25/whered_you_get/comment-page-1/#comment-69926 Jai Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:51:11 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3516#comment-69926 <p><b>Ennis</b>,</p> <blockquote>Fascinating. I'm pretty sure that isn't the case for Sikhs. </blockquote> <p>Agreed. I'm no expert on the topic, but I think it's unlikely, for the following reasons:</p> <ol> <li><p>As we know, Sikhs these days dispose of the deceased via cremations, but this isn't actually mandatory within Sikhism. According to the teachings of the faith, it makes no difference exactly how a body is disposed of (cremation, burial, submersion in rivers/oceans etc), as long as it is done respectfully.</p></li> <li><p>The most famous examples of Sikh funerals that I know about involve Guru Nanak, Guru Tegh Bahadur, and Guru Gobind Singh. The last two were cremated, and to my knowledge there was no "cracking of the skull to allow the soul to escape" in any of these cases.</p></li> <li><p>The Sikh view of the soul is that it is a part of God and therefore does not consist of "matter"; therefore, I doubt that the physical form of the body would act as a barrier preventing the soul from "leaving" until a suitable exit point was created. Such things are also regarded as being in God's hands so I don't think it would require any human intervention before the soul could return to God.</p></li> </ol> <p>Just my own thoughts on the subject.</p> Ennis,

Fascinating. I’m pretty sure that isn’t the case for Sikhs.

Agreed. I’m no expert on the topic, but I think it’s unlikely, for the following reasons:

  1. As we know, Sikhs these days dispose of the deceased via cremations, but this isn’t actually mandatory within Sikhism. According to the teachings of the faith, it makes no difference exactly how a body is disposed of (cremation, burial, submersion in rivers/oceans etc), as long as it is done respectfully.

  2. The most famous examples of Sikh funerals that I know about involve Guru Nanak, Guru Tegh Bahadur, and Guru Gobind Singh. The last two were cremated, and to my knowledge there was no “cracking of the skull to allow the soul to escape” in any of these cases.

  3. The Sikh view of the soul is that it is a part of God and therefore does not consist of “matter”; therefore, I doubt that the physical form of the body would act as a barrier preventing the soul from “leaving” until a suitable exit point was created. Such things are also regarded as being in God’s hands so I don’t think it would require any human intervention before the soul could return to God.

Just my own thoughts on the subject.

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By: Cogito Ergo Sum http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/06/25/whered_you_get/comment-page-1/#comment-69920 Cogito Ergo Sum Tue, 27 Jun 2006 09:24:25 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3516#comment-69920 <p>The skull-cracking ritual is grim, yet fascinating and somehow profound. It is called Kapala Kriya (the skull ritual) and is fairly standard in hindus. When my grandmother died, I performed it with my father. It goes like this:</p> <p>They wait a half hour or so after lighting the pyre, so that the flesh is burnt away and the relatives have departed. Then the cremation guy brings a long bamboo pole, which is "sanctified" by the priest. They expose the skull on the pyre so the top is clearly visible. Then the eldest male hiers grab one end of the pole and try and fracture the skull with the other end. It takes two or three butts to crack it, and you can hear and see it crack (not pretty). All the while the priest chants mantras and throws holy water on the skull, making the entire process seem surreal and significant. After this they add more wood to the fire to make it hot enough to fuse the bones - so that rogue tantriks don't steal the bones for "black magic".</p> <p>I later read up on the significance of this ritual, and Sumiti is spot on - it is performed to allow the spirit to leave from the highest chakra. The mantras used are those rare ones that invoke Yamraja, and plead with him for safe passage of the spirit to the other world. Apparently the body is laid on the pyre with the head facing south, towards the kingdom of Yama.</p> The skull-cracking ritual is grim, yet fascinating and somehow profound. It is called Kapala Kriya (the skull ritual) and is fairly standard in hindus. When my grandmother died, I performed it with my father. It goes like this:

They wait a half hour or so after lighting the pyre, so that the flesh is burnt away and the relatives have departed. Then the cremation guy brings a long bamboo pole, which is “sanctified” by the priest. They expose the skull on the pyre so the top is clearly visible. Then the eldest male hiers grab one end of the pole and try and fracture the skull with the other end. It takes two or three butts to crack it, and you can hear and see it crack (not pretty). All the while the priest chants mantras and throws holy water on the skull, making the entire process seem surreal and significant. After this they add more wood to the fire to make it hot enough to fuse the bones – so that rogue tantriks don’t steal the bones for “black magic”.

I later read up on the significance of this ritual, and Sumiti is spot on – it is performed to allow the spirit to leave from the highest chakra. The mantras used are those rare ones that invoke Yamraja, and plead with him for safe passage of the spirit to the other world. Apparently the body is laid on the pyre with the head facing south, towards the kingdom of Yama.

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By: Sudeep http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/06/25/whered_you_get/comment-page-1/#comment-69841 Sudeep Tue, 27 Jun 2006 01:40:06 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3516#comment-69841 <blockquote> <blockquote> <p>There were religious taboos to counter, including one that held that an eye donor is born blind in his next birth</p> </blockquote> </blockquote> <p>In hinduism next birth is determined by the karma a person has accumulated when he was "alive", so donating ones eyes adds positive points to his karma since karma is about intention inthe action, and the act of removing eyes from "dead" body doesn't affect the person's karma.</p> <blockquote> <blockquote> <p>Socially it is cremated because that was considered the cheapest, easiest and most hygenical way of disposing it off.</p> </blockquote> </blockquote> <p>Moornam, dead bodies are cremated because hindus consider fire as an intermediary to Gods --anything offered to fire reaches heaven. During yagnas food and other stuff are offered to fire and in traditional wedding ceremonies fire is used as witness(agnisakshi) in lieu of Gods.</p>

There were religious taboos to counter, including one that held that an eye donor is born blind in his next birth

In hinduism next birth is determined by the karma a person has accumulated when he was “alive”, so donating ones eyes adds positive points to his karma since karma is about intention inthe action, and the act of removing eyes from “dead” body doesn’t affect the person’s karma.

Socially it is cremated because that was considered the cheapest, easiest and most hygenical way of disposing it off.

Moornam, dead bodies are cremated because hindus consider fire as an intermediary to Gods –anything offered to fire reaches heaven. During yagnas food and other stuff are offered to fire and in traditional wedding ceremonies fire is used as witness(agnisakshi) in lieu of Gods.

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By: sumiti http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/06/25/whered_you_get/comment-page-1/#comment-69748 sumiti Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:56:56 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3516#comment-69748 <blockquote>Fascinating. I'm pretty sure that isn't the case for Sikhs. I was present for my grandfather's cremation and we did no such thing, although this was in the USA.</blockquote> <p>yes ennis... sikh cremations are different. the above is mostly prominent among hindu brahmins. i think the supposed 'importance and elitism' of these rites were 'created' because of the need for brahmins to feel superior... that is why they are not always congruent with hindu philosophy. there has been a lot of damage done to hinduism during the caste system days... that's when i think evrything got so complicated and real explanations got mixed up with those propagated by brahmin men to create a social/financial security for themselves.</p> Fascinating. I’m pretty sure that isn’t the case for Sikhs. I was present for my grandfather’s cremation and we did no such thing, although this was in the USA.

yes ennis… sikh cremations are different. the above is mostly prominent among hindu brahmins. i think the supposed ‘importance and elitism’ of these rites were ‘created’ because of the need for brahmins to feel superior… that is why they are not always congruent with hindu philosophy. there has been a lot of damage done to hinduism during the caste system days… that’s when i think evrything got so complicated and real explanations got mixed up with those propagated by brahmin men to create a social/financial security for themselves.

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By: Ennis http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/06/25/whered_you_get/comment-page-1/#comment-69746 Ennis Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:45:03 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3516#comment-69746 <p>Fascinating. I'm pretty sure that isn't the case for Sikhs. I was present for my grandfather's cremation and we did no such thing, although this was in the USA.</p> Fascinating. I’m pretty sure that isn’t the case for Sikhs. I was present for my grandfather’s cremation and we did no such thing, although this was in the USA.

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By: sumiti http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/06/25/whered_you_get/comment-page-1/#comment-69741 sumiti Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:39:34 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3516#comment-69741 <p>i have theory on why some indian folk are afraid of organ donation after death.</p> <p>it is not written in any hindu texts that organ donation is not allowed. i think the fear is based on inferences people make.</p> <p>one of the steps in the 'kriyakaram' (the rituals during cremation process) involves cracking of the skull. not many people know about this (i didn't till a uni class) and they try to be discreet about this step in front of family members (for obvious reasons). the idea is for the 'spirit' to leave the body via the sahasrara chakra, which the the chakra (or energy portal) at the tope of the head. this is considered to be the 'highest' chakra and so it is the most 'auspicious exit of spirit'. it is also the 'portal' via which a spirit leaves if it is to enter moksha. i have found that this belief is much more common among shaivaite and tantrik followers, and more so in south indian cultures (eg. tamil nadu). if the person is not 'worthy of moksha' then the spirit is thought to leave via a 'lower' chakra or energy portal.</p> <p>i think people believe that if there are organs missing in the body, it messes up the 'energy portal' in that area and it can prevent the spirit from finding its way out. this is also why some people dont give bodies in for post-mortems in many parts of india, out of fear of disturbing the 'chakras' in the body.</p> <p>i am not including links or references here because i don't have time to look them up , but these beliefs are true and have been documented in some anthropological texts and religious perspective books i read in undergrad. i have also received some of this feedback from some 'gurus' and have heard these explanations from various people, so these views do exist.</p> <p>i am not of these opinions, and yes a more mature understanding of hindu philosophy can explain why the above is not valid.</p> <p>however, we have to understand that a great proportion of india is still illiterate and does not have access to religious philosophy to build sophisticated theories. they are fighters that are constantly struggling, in this struggle they find strength in 'God'. There is also this notion among indians that by being 'God-fearing' they are religious and are being 'good', therefore their troubles will be taken care of.... (this drives me up the wall!!!). They follow religious protocol 'just because' and out of 'fear'... anything to please the Gods... to prevent more troubles and to make their current lives easier. Same goes for all the rites to ensure the ancestors' 'happiness' in Pitrloka and for the cremation rites to ensure a good afterlife or future lives. People do these to cover their bases mostly. There may be some truth or validation behind the rites, I don't know... but they are no longer practiced with proper knowledge, explanations or understanding.</p> <p>Anyway, I think these views and beliefs and lack of proper knowledge drive the superstitions... hope this wasn't too far-fetched for you guys!</p> i have theory on why some indian folk are afraid of organ donation after death.

it is not written in any hindu texts that organ donation is not allowed. i think the fear is based on inferences people make.

one of the steps in the ‘kriyakaram’ (the rituals during cremation process) involves cracking of the skull. not many people know about this (i didn’t till a uni class) and they try to be discreet about this step in front of family members (for obvious reasons). the idea is for the ‘spirit’ to leave the body via the sahasrara chakra, which the the chakra (or energy portal) at the tope of the head. this is considered to be the ‘highest’ chakra and so it is the most ‘auspicious exit of spirit’. it is also the ‘portal’ via which a spirit leaves if it is to enter moksha. i have found that this belief is much more common among shaivaite and tantrik followers, and more so in south indian cultures (eg. tamil nadu). if the person is not ‘worthy of moksha’ then the spirit is thought to leave via a ‘lower’ chakra or energy portal.

i think people believe that if there are organs missing in the body, it messes up the ‘energy portal’ in that area and it can prevent the spirit from finding its way out. this is also why some people dont give bodies in for post-mortems in many parts of india, out of fear of disturbing the ‘chakras’ in the body.

i am not including links or references here because i don’t have time to look them up , but these beliefs are true and have been documented in some anthropological texts and religious perspective books i read in undergrad. i have also received some of this feedback from some ‘gurus’ and have heard these explanations from various people, so these views do exist.

i am not of these opinions, and yes a more mature understanding of hindu philosophy can explain why the above is not valid.

however, we have to understand that a great proportion of india is still illiterate and does not have access to religious philosophy to build sophisticated theories. they are fighters that are constantly struggling, in this struggle they find strength in ‘God’. There is also this notion among indians that by being ‘God-fearing’ they are religious and are being ‘good’, therefore their troubles will be taken care of…. (this drives me up the wall!!!). They follow religious protocol ‘just because’ and out of ‘fear’… anything to please the Gods… to prevent more troubles and to make their current lives easier. Same goes for all the rites to ensure the ancestors’ ‘happiness’ in Pitrloka and for the cremation rites to ensure a good afterlife or future lives. People do these to cover their bases mostly. There may be some truth or validation behind the rites, I don’t know… but they are no longer practiced with proper knowledge, explanations or understanding.

Anyway, I think these views and beliefs and lack of proper knowledge drive the superstitions… hope this wasn’t too far-fetched for you guys!

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By: Cogito Ergo Sum http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/06/25/whered_you_get/comment-page-1/#comment-69725 Cogito Ergo Sum Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:03:33 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3516#comment-69725 <p>Moornam, you are right that this belief is not supported by the tenets of Hinduism. But it is surprisingly popular. My father and I pledged our eyes in one such campaign, but my mother refused to pledge hers precisely because of this belief. I don't have any data, but I have heard this argument several times - even from people you would not expect to be superstitious.</p> Moornam, you are right that this belief is not supported by the tenets of Hinduism. But it is surprisingly popular. My father and I pledged our eyes in one such campaign, but my mother refused to pledge hers precisely because of this belief. I don’t have any data, but I have heard this argument several times – even from people you would not expect to be superstitious.

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