Comments on: Angrezi, Solamente (English, Only) http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/24/angrezi_solamen/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: DesiInSpain http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/24/angrezi_solamen/comment-page-1/#comment-135728 DesiInSpain Fri, 11 May 2007 10:26:11 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3406#comment-135728 <p>Hi Aranyi - I am always surprised by the puzzled look on the faces of the punjabis who I chat with here... surprised at the fact that hardly anyone in Kerala understands or much less speaks Hindi. The study of Hindi is obligatory in primary school but it is of very little practical value in Kerala. What little hindi I know is so atrocious that I would rather remain silent than oblige someone to endure my attempts at speaking hindi. A language is used only when it is practical in day-to-day life. Nevertheless, I am always amused by the linguistic divides among Indians. Yesterday, for example, I had to queue at the Indian consulate. In the queue with me were several Punjabis from Ludhiana. They spoke to me in Hindi, and I answered in English. They did not understand my English, so I continued in Spanish. They didn't understand my Spanish, became silent and ceased to ask me any questions...</p> Hi Aranyi - I am always surprised by the puzzled look on the faces of the punjabis who I chat with here… surprised at the fact that hardly anyone in Kerala understands or much less speaks Hindi. The study of Hindi is obligatory in primary school but it is of very little practical value in Kerala. What little hindi I know is so atrocious that I would rather remain silent than oblige someone to endure my attempts at speaking hindi. A language is used only when it is practical in day-to-day life. Nevertheless, I am always amused by the linguistic divides among Indians. Yesterday, for example, I had to queue at the Indian consulate. In the queue with me were several Punjabis from Ludhiana. They spoke to me in Hindi, and I answered in English. They did not understand my English, so I continued in Spanish. They didn’t understand my Spanish, became silent and ceased to ask me any questions…

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By: SulaymanF http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/24/angrezi_solamen/comment-page-1/#comment-64690 SulaymanF Sun, 28 May 2006 11:51:26 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3406#comment-64690 <p>Come to the CVS Pharmacy on 14th Street and First Avenue, NYC. The Medicaid poster is in English, Spanish, Hindi, Arabic, and Bangla.</p> Come to the CVS Pharmacy on 14th Street and First Avenue, NYC. The Medicaid poster is in English, Spanish, Hindi, Arabic, and Bangla.

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By: aranyi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/24/angrezi_solamen/comment-page-1/#comment-64043 aranyi Thu, 25 May 2006 10:21:06 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3406#comment-64043 <p>In india hindi and english are the official languages, which means that all government notices and work can be carried in either language. Because India is divides into states on linguistic boundaries, each state tends to have its own national language. The hindi heartland is in north india, so it is more likely that you would get by on english rather than hindi in the south because of the difference in language and script (in the north all the different state languages use a related script and sound like dialects). hence it needs to have different national languages to represent a significant segment of its population.</p> In india hindi and english are the official languages, which means that all government notices and work can be carried in either language. Because India is divides into states on linguistic boundaries, each state tends to have its own national language. The hindi heartland is in north india, so it is more likely that you would get by on english rather than hindi in the south because of the difference in language and script (in the north all the different state languages use a related script and sound like dialects). hence it needs to have different national languages to represent a significant segment of its population.

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By: Rukku http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/24/angrezi_solamen/comment-page-1/#comment-63979 Rukku Thu, 25 May 2006 06:03:54 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3406#comment-63979 <p>In addition to government materials for housing, etc. this is a big issue for voting rights... currently, in any district with a population exceeding a certain percentage/number that has a predetermined amount of LEP folk, the government is required to provide materials in that language. In Los Angeles alone the government is mandated to provide materials in 6 languages beyond English (Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese, Tagalog, Spanish, and Khmer).</p> <p>True enough, at this point, it's not affecting South Asians anywhere in the country (at least according to Census data). But the predictions for the forthcoming South Asian immigrant populations show that this could become an area where South Asians should be concerned, particularly Bengali and Urdu speaking populations.</p> <p>Saying that English is the official language -- let alone saying the government will not provide materials in another language -- opens the door for such absurd rulings as not being allowed to speak a language other than English in schools, the workplace, etc. (which is already a problem in a lot of areas)... I think that's why English-only legislation is particularly frightening to me, because language is a cornerstone of any culture. Saying a language is unwelcome in this country is tantamount to saying the culture is unwelcome (in my eyes, at least). And then where would we be? English-only legislation comes up quite frequently in state congresses, but to see it coming up on a national level, and actually passing... that's scary.</p> In addition to government materials for housing, etc. this is a big issue for voting rights… currently, in any district with a population exceeding a certain percentage/number that has a predetermined amount of LEP folk, the government is required to provide materials in that language. In Los Angeles alone the government is mandated to provide materials in 6 languages beyond English (Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese, Tagalog, Spanish, and Khmer).

True enough, at this point, it’s not affecting South Asians anywhere in the country (at least according to Census data). But the predictions for the forthcoming South Asian immigrant populations show that this could become an area where South Asians should be concerned, particularly Bengali and Urdu speaking populations.

Saying that English is the official language — let alone saying the government will not provide materials in another language — opens the door for such absurd rulings as not being allowed to speak a language other than English in schools, the workplace, etc. (which is already a problem in a lot of areas)… I think that’s why English-only legislation is particularly frightening to me, because language is a cornerstone of any culture. Saying a language is unwelcome in this country is tantamount to saying the culture is unwelcome (in my eyes, at least). And then where would we be? English-only legislation comes up quite frequently in state congresses, but to see it coming up on a national level, and actually passing… that’s scary.

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By: Rob Breymaier http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/24/angrezi_solamen/comment-page-1/#comment-63967 Rob Breymaier Thu, 25 May 2006 04:51:13 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3406#comment-63967 <p>Actually, many government agencies are currently charged with providing documentation in other languages to help those with "limited English proficiency". Additionally, the LEP criteria are used for providing bonus points to grantees and contract awardees. I would assume this would fade away in the event this bill was passed. The LEP criteria could be pulled anytime anyway because they were committed through an Executive Order which each President has the choice to uphold, ignore, or repeal.</p> <p>Currently, in Chicago, there are fair housing materials available in many languages including Hindi, Urdu, and Arabic. But, the translations have been created by non-profit fair housing agencies in conjunction with immigrant social service agencies.</p> <p>Providing these materials in native languages profoundly increases the awareness of fair housing law and how the US government works in immigrant communities.</p> Actually, many government agencies are currently charged with providing documentation in other languages to help those with “limited English proficiency”. Additionally, the LEP criteria are used for providing bonus points to grantees and contract awardees. I would assume this would fade away in the event this bill was passed. The LEP criteria could be pulled anytime anyway because they were committed through an Executive Order which each President has the choice to uphold, ignore, or repeal.

Currently, in Chicago, there are fair housing materials available in many languages including Hindi, Urdu, and Arabic. But, the translations have been created by non-profit fair housing agencies in conjunction with immigrant social service agencies.

Providing these materials in native languages profoundly increases the awareness of fair housing law and how the US government works in immigrant communities.

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By: Saurav http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/24/angrezi_solamen/comment-page-1/#comment-63918 Saurav Wed, 24 May 2006 23:43:11 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3406#comment-63918 <blockquote>For the most part this will probably not affect too many South Asian immigrants, though I could imagine that it could in places where there are high concentrations of immigrants. It’s not a question of the U.S. providing forms in Hindi, Punjabi, or Bengali (which I don’t is happening anywhere, nor do I think it is an issue). Rather, it might come up in other cases where the state feels it would be in its interest to be able to communicate with someone who doesn’t speak English — say, in court.</blockquote> <p>Actually, as you pointed out, it's <i>totally</i> unclear what the practical impact of this is going to be, because there hasn't been any resolution as to what the powers that be want. However, as you pointed out millions of immigrants (including South Asian immigrants) under one version of this will lose the "right" to get materials in language. So, for example, the Census (whose guides are apparently distributed in multiple languages)? Possibly social services? Etc. The federal action, in turn, deepens a trend at the state and local levels.</p> <p>Basically, this is a reaction to the demographic anxieties fears of English-speaking America--it seems likely that at some point, this is going to become at least a bilingual nation (English and Spanish) and they don't like that (yet). So Congress throws a hissy fit that will adversely affect people.</p> <p>Of course, the broader point, which I had hoped you would get to, is that the whole bill is very bad for those that care about immigrants or labor rights. Even erstwhile pro-immigrant supporters of the bill are now making this argument: because among other things, it calls for building a 370 mile wall along the border, ratifies the 6,000 military troops at the border that Bush proposed, allows for indefinite detentions, expands grounds and funding for deportations and jailings, leaves millions of people undocumented, and has a backdoor provision to make a lot of them criminals (it's a technicality about the statute of limitations on entering the country without inspection). And the House hasn't had a chance to destroy it even further.</p> <p>Some legalization.</p> For the most part this will probably not affect too many South Asian immigrants, though I could imagine that it could in places where there are high concentrations of immigrants. It’s not a question of the U.S. providing forms in Hindi, Punjabi, or Bengali (which I don’t is happening anywhere, nor do I think it is an issue). Rather, it might come up in other cases where the state feels it would be in its interest to be able to communicate with someone who doesn’t speak English — say, in court.

Actually, as you pointed out, it’s totally unclear what the practical impact of this is going to be, because there hasn’t been any resolution as to what the powers that be want. However, as you pointed out millions of immigrants (including South Asian immigrants) under one version of this will lose the “right” to get materials in language. So, for example, the Census (whose guides are apparently distributed in multiple languages)? Possibly social services? Etc. The federal action, in turn, deepens a trend at the state and local levels.

Basically, this is a reaction to the demographic anxieties fears of English-speaking America–it seems likely that at some point, this is going to become at least a bilingual nation (English and Spanish) and they don’t like that (yet). So Congress throws a hissy fit that will adversely affect people.

Of course, the broader point, which I had hoped you would get to, is that the whole bill is very bad for those that care about immigrants or labor rights. Even erstwhile pro-immigrant supporters of the bill are now making this argument: because among other things, it calls for building a 370 mile wall along the border, ratifies the 6,000 military troops at the border that Bush proposed, allows for indefinite detentions, expands grounds and funding for deportations and jailings, leaves millions of people undocumented, and has a backdoor provision to make a lot of them criminals (it’s a technicality about the statute of limitations on entering the country without inspection). And the House hasn’t had a chance to destroy it even further.

Some legalization.

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By: GujuDude http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/24/angrezi_solamen/comment-page-1/#comment-63894 GujuDude Wed, 24 May 2006 23:11:49 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3406#comment-63894 <p>Seriously, esto es bahuaj confusing che, lekin Hindi is bharat's national language, so it makings travel in India clear as maatee. Maybe the same here! Taaliya!</p> Seriously, esto es bahuaj confusing che, lekin Hindi is bharat’s national language, so it makings travel in India clear as maatee. Maybe the same here! Taaliya!

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By: pv http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/24/angrezi_solamen/comment-page-1/#comment-63884 pv Wed, 24 May 2006 23:02:52 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3406#comment-63884 <p>Thanks Vikram and CAD!</p> Thanks Vikram and CAD!

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By: Sen. CAD http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/24/angrezi_solamen/comment-page-1/#comment-63876 Sen. CAD Wed, 24 May 2006 22:38:26 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3406#comment-63876 <p><b>Vikram</b>:</p> <p>Thanks, <i>yaar</i>.</p> <p>--Sen. Cheap Ass Desi</p> Vikram:

Thanks, yaar.

–Sen. Cheap Ass Desi

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By: Vikram http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/24/angrezi_solamen/comment-page-1/#comment-63875 Vikram Wed, 24 May 2006 22:34:41 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3406#comment-63875 <blockquote> Great remark. Can you provide a link to it? </blockquote> <p>Here you go...</p> <blockquote> The English Language Debate Bob Schieffer Says This Country Has More Pressing Issues ... <strong>And while they're at it, maybe senators could declare the U.S. Capitol to be the national monument to wasting time and avoiding responsibility. </strong> <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/21/opinion/schieffer/main1638403.shtml">Link</a> </blockquote> Great remark. Can you provide a link to it?

Here you go…

The English Language Debate Bob Schieffer Says This Country Has More Pressing Issues … And while they’re at it, maybe senators could declare the U.S. Capitol to be the national monument to wasting time and avoiding responsibility. Link
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