Comments on: In Which The Head Meets the Body http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/19/in_which_the_he/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: green angel http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/19/in_which_the_he/comment-page-1/#comment-63519 green angel Mon, 22 May 2006 18:25:54 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3391#comment-63519 <p>About 10 years go, some friends and I visited an art museum in Chennai. The paintings and sculptures on display may have been created by prominent artists, I don't know. I remember that the artwork on display was diverse in their styles and subjects, and overall beautiful. However, what I remember most clearly is that people had scratched on some of the sculptures, written on the protective glass and the surrounding walls, and in many cases defaced the paintings themselves.</p> <p>Is the solution sending your art to western museums for safe preservation? There has to be a better way. In the meantime, beautiful things are slowly destroyed by careless, insensitive hands.</p> About 10 years go, some friends and I visited an art museum in Chennai. The paintings and sculptures on display may have been created by prominent artists, I don’t know. I remember that the artwork on display was diverse in their styles and subjects, and overall beautiful. However, what I remember most clearly is that people had scratched on some of the sculptures, written on the protective glass and the surrounding walls, and in many cases defaced the paintings themselves.

Is the solution sending your art to western museums for safe preservation? There has to be a better way. In the meantime, beautiful things are slowly destroyed by careless, insensitive hands.

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By: Number Six http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/19/in_which_the_he/comment-page-1/#comment-63406 Number Six Sat, 20 May 2006 14:47:38 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3391#comment-63406 <p>And for the record, Gurinder Chadha's husband is Japanese American.</p> And for the record, Gurinder Chadha’s husband is Japanese American.

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By: Number Six http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/19/in_which_the_he/comment-page-1/#comment-63397 Number Six Sat, 20 May 2006 09:36:00 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3391#comment-63397 <blockquote>I'm sorry I am viewed as so anti-white</blockquote> <p>Er, um, well, Driver? is <a href="http://countrydrive.blogspot.com/2006/05/gurinder-chadha-uncle-tom.html">this</a> for real?? Sounds pretty "anti-brown" to me:</p> <blockquote><b>Gurinder Chadha = Uncle Tom </b> The article above is about the first person on the Driver's flush list, which is composed of <b>people who should no longer be accepted as brown by their countrymen</b>. Ms. Chadha is one of the foremost offenders; her tired formula of desi-bashing with a sprinkling of girls of all colors, some hunky white boy and terrible musical sequences that equate all Indian culture as Punjabi make me want to puke. Still, she has been successful, as she has managed to repeat the formula three times, Bhaji on the Beach, Bend it Like Beckham, & Bride and Prejudice. All three espouse the weariness of the life of an Indian woman, and each propel a fantasy where the oppressed brown woman is rescued from the drudgery of family life by a white hero (in white). The central theme of these movies is that Indian woman are remarkably desirable to everyone but Indian men, who treat them like shit. Therefore, the only hope is to marry a white man. Small wonder that Mrs. Chadha is herself attached to one of the same. It's good to see that her commitment to commercializing her culture while simultaneously disparaging most of its adherents has paid off. The article above details how Mrs. Chadha has made the jump to mainstream Hollywood, where she won't even have to put any troublesome brown people in her movies at all. <b>Gurinder Chadha has been flushed</b>.</blockquote> <p>Uhh, who died and made you the final arbiter of brownness?</p> I’m sorry I am viewed as so anti-white

Er, um, well, Driver? is this for real?? Sounds pretty “anti-brown” to me:

Gurinder Chadha = Uncle Tom The article above is about the first person on the Driver’s flush list, which is composed of people who should no longer be accepted as brown by their countrymen. Ms. Chadha is one of the foremost offenders; her tired formula of desi-bashing with a sprinkling of girls of all colors, some hunky white boy and terrible musical sequences that equate all Indian culture as Punjabi make me want to puke. Still, she has been successful, as she has managed to repeat the formula three times, Bhaji on the Beach, Bend it Like Beckham, & Bride and Prejudice. All three espouse the weariness of the life of an Indian woman, and each propel a fantasy where the oppressed brown woman is rescued from the drudgery of family life by a white hero (in white). The central theme of these movies is that Indian woman are remarkably desirable to everyone but Indian men, who treat them like shit. Therefore, the only hope is to marry a white man. Small wonder that Mrs. Chadha is herself attached to one of the same. It’s good to see that her commitment to commercializing her culture while simultaneously disparaging most of its adherents has paid off. The article above details how Mrs. Chadha has made the jump to mainstream Hollywood, where she won’t even have to put any troublesome brown people in her movies at all. Gurinder Chadha has been flushed.

Uhh, who died and made you the final arbiter of brownness?

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By: SM Intern http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/19/in_which_the_he/comment-page-1/#comment-63395 SM Intern Sat, 20 May 2006 09:27:05 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3391#comment-63395 <blockquote>Oh God, I wish I could frame this. If this were actually colonial times, you would be the sepoy and I'd be the local that your British officer told you to shoot. Or house negro/field negro if you please.</blockquote> <p>So let me get this straight. You are calling the person who runs this site "a House Negro", a site by the way that that you refered to as:</p> <blockquote>...an excellent blog by brown writers that I've recently started frequenting. [<a href="http://countrydrive.blogspot.com/2006/05/what-can-brown-do-for-you.html#links">link</a>]</blockquote> <p>You then went on to say:</p> <blockquote> I realize that this blog [<i>your blog</i>] is mostly <b>a collection of diatribes by me towards some unknown entity that I seem to blame for most of the problems of brown people</b>. <b>I assure you this is not the case</b>; [<a href="http://countrydrive.blogspot.com/2006/05/what-can-brown-do-for-you.html#links">link</a>]</blockquote> <p>Yeah right. You have to reconsider your situation if you think we are going to allow your diatribes "toward some unknown entity" here. You appear to be the jailer of your own prison. When you realize that then drop us an email and this "House Negro" will see about letting you back in.</p> Oh God, I wish I could frame this. If this were actually colonial times, you would be the sepoy and I’d be the local that your British officer told you to shoot. Or house negro/field negro if you please.

So let me get this straight. You are calling the person who runs this site “a House Negro”, a site by the way that that you refered to as:

…an excellent blog by brown writers that I’ve recently started frequenting. [link]

You then went on to say:

I realize that this blog [your blog] is mostly a collection of diatribes by me towards some unknown entity that I seem to blame for most of the problems of brown people. I assure you this is not the case; [link]

Yeah right. You have to reconsider your situation if you think we are going to allow your diatribes “toward some unknown entity” here. You appear to be the jailer of your own prison. When you realize that then drop us an email and this “House Negro” will see about letting you back in.

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By: Driver http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/19/in_which_the_he/comment-page-1/#comment-63393 Driver Sat, 20 May 2006 09:08:34 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3391#comment-63393 <blockquote>Driver, Please keep your anti-white sentiments off of the discussion boards. You make some valid points but have a tendency to slip into a rant. I have deleted several of your comments as a warning to give you the benefit of the doubt. This is the last one.</blockquote> <p>Oh God, I wish I could frame this. If this were actually colonial times, you would be the sepoy and I'd be the local that your British officer told you to shoot. Or house negro/field negro if you please. I'm sure this post will be deleted though. Anyhow, I regret using education as a qualifier; I should have just said that I spent my time at college studying the systematic looting and redistribution of South Asian art and intellectual property by the West, and so I am very familiar with the tendency for Western intellectual circles to possess and analyze the products of an Eastern culture without giving due consideration to the rights or interpretations of the a culture (supposed "scholarly" treatments of the Ramayana and Mahabharata are excellent examples. I'm sorry I am viewed as so anti-white, I will do my better to fit in and please the massas.</p> Driver, Please keep your anti-white sentiments off of the discussion boards. You make some valid points but have a tendency to slip into a rant. I have deleted several of your comments as a warning to give you the benefit of the doubt. This is the last one.

Oh God, I wish I could frame this. If this were actually colonial times, you would be the sepoy and I’d be the local that your British officer told you to shoot. Or house negro/field negro if you please. I’m sure this post will be deleted though. Anyhow, I regret using education as a qualifier; I should have just said that I spent my time at college studying the systematic looting and redistribution of South Asian art and intellectual property by the West, and so I am very familiar with the tendency for Western intellectual circles to possess and analyze the products of an Eastern culture without giving due consideration to the rights or interpretations of the a culture (supposed “scholarly” treatments of the Ramayana and Mahabharata are excellent examples. I’m sorry I am viewed as so anti-white, I will do my better to fit in and please the massas.

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By: ggk http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/19/in_which_the_he/comment-page-1/#comment-63382 ggk Sat, 20 May 2006 05:21:43 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3391#comment-63382 <blockquote>BTW - guys you are really verbose.</blockquote> <p>and amardeep grades each comment</p> BTW – guys you are really verbose.

and amardeep grades each comment

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By: dhaavak http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/19/in_which_the_he/comment-page-1/#comment-63381 dhaavak Sat, 20 May 2006 05:14:50 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3391#comment-63381 <p>here's another perspective - the <a href="http://www.rom.on.ca">Royal ontario museum's </a> Gallery of Canada presents the first peoples culture through the eyes of the collectors.<a href="http://www.sceneandheard.ca/article.php?id=1550">-link-</a> <br /> Here's <a href="http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:gBnneOS431sJ:www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/freeheadlines/LAC/20060121/ROM21/thearts/Arts+%2B%22first+peoples%22+%2BROM+%2BGallery+%2Bcollectors&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=3">a newspaper article </a>with the rather sour title, "what's a dead white guy doing in the middle of our gallery?".</p> <blockquote>Instead of a cabinet purporting to deal with the Inuit as a generalized whole, understood through a selection of objects, the new display gives us, specifically, Robert Flaherty's collection of Inuit holdings, gathered during his travels in the North in the early 1900s. (Flaherty was the maker of the famous 1922 silent film Nanook of the North.) We see his kayak, his ulu (a traditional carving knife), his snow saws, his carved-bone goggles, even an exotic bag he collected made from the scaly skin of geese's feet. </blockquote> <p>my opinion - I think it is positive that the exhibits do not come across as a study of a people under a microscope - there is human interaction involved. <br /> Anyway, food for thought. Good night and have a great weekend<br /> BTW - guys you are really verbose.</p> here’s another perspective – the Royal ontario museum’s Gallery of Canada presents the first peoples culture through the eyes of the collectors.-link-
Here’s a newspaper article with the rather sour title, “what’s a dead white guy doing in the middle of our gallery?”.

Instead of a cabinet purporting to deal with the Inuit as a generalized whole, understood through a selection of objects, the new display gives us, specifically, Robert Flaherty’s collection of Inuit holdings, gathered during his travels in the North in the early 1900s. (Flaherty was the maker of the famous 1922 silent film Nanook of the North.) We see his kayak, his ulu (a traditional carving knife), his snow saws, his carved-bone goggles, even an exotic bag he collected made from the scaly skin of geese’s feet.

my opinion – I think it is positive that the exhibits do not come across as a study of a people under a microscope – there is human interaction involved.
Anyway, food for thought. Good night and have a great weekend
BTW – guys you are really verbose.

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By: Cheap Ass Desi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/19/in_which_the_he/comment-page-1/#comment-63379 Cheap Ass Desi Sat, 20 May 2006 04:48:57 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3391#comment-63379 <p>Also, the institution of archeology is completely politicized. One case where this particularly stands out is in Israel: Israeli Jews eagerly and frantically dig away looking for proof that they are the "original" inhabitants so as to both discredit the presence of Palestinians as the indigenous population, as well as to validate that Jews are the originial dwellers of Palestine. More alarmingly, evidence that has been unearthed -- which would reveal the presence of the Nabatean Arabs in ancient Palestine-- is left to be forgotten, or worse, intentionally ignored, hidden, and buried. Another case is that of the <a href="http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/287BAEC9-50D2-47D5-AAA7-A1EFA044B590.htm">mummies found in China</a>.</p> <p>In addition, the fact that scripts, manuscripts, old miniture paintings, and so on are now in (ex) colonial and imperial powers' museums is unsettling. Here, the knowledge, history, genius, creativity and intellectualism of peoples are colonized. The gatekeepers of various peoples' history and knowledge are their (ex)masters.</p> Also, the institution of archeology is completely politicized. One case where this particularly stands out is in Israel: Israeli Jews eagerly and frantically dig away looking for proof that they are the “original” inhabitants so as to both discredit the presence of Palestinians as the indigenous population, as well as to validate that Jews are the originial dwellers of Palestine. More alarmingly, evidence that has been unearthed — which would reveal the presence of the Nabatean Arabs in ancient Palestine– is left to be forgotten, or worse, intentionally ignored, hidden, and buried. Another case is that of the mummies found in China.

In addition, the fact that scripts, manuscripts, old miniture paintings, and so on are now in (ex) colonial and imperial powers’ museums is unsettling. Here, the knowledge, history, genius, creativity and intellectualism of peoples are colonized. The gatekeepers of various peoples’ history and knowledge are their (ex)masters.

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By: Cheap Ass Desi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/19/in_which_the_he/comment-page-1/#comment-63377 Cheap Ass Desi Sat, 20 May 2006 03:55:44 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3391#comment-63377 <p>Clarification:</p> <blockquote>Priceless artefacts of (formerly) colonized peoples are war booty.</blockquote> <p>Priceless artefacts of (formerly) colonized peoples which reside in the colonialist/imperial powers' museums, libraries,etc, are war booty. Moreover, there is something resentful about the fact that Western museums make profits, via admission tickets from museum goers and so on, off of the fruits of labor of the very people that they have oppressed and exploited.</p> Clarification:

Priceless artefacts of (formerly) colonized peoples are war booty.

Priceless artefacts of (formerly) colonized peoples which reside in the colonialist/imperial powers’ museums, libraries,etc, are war booty. Moreover, there is something resentful about the fact that Western museums make profits, via admission tickets from museum goers and so on, off of the fruits of labor of the very people that they have oppressed and exploited.

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By: Cheap Ass Desi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/19/in_which_the_he/comment-page-1/#comment-63376 Cheap Ass Desi Sat, 20 May 2006 03:50:42 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3391#comment-63376 <p><b>Amardeep:</b></p> <p>Thanks for writing this piece. As I've travelled far and beyond the borders, I've noticed how (ex)colonial and imperial powers have the most precious and valuable artwork of the peoples that they have couquered. Museums have a lot of politics implicated in them, and so I'm glad that you've raised this issue.</p> <p><b>Driver:</b></p> <blockquote>Most of the thefts are due to wealthy European and American collectors bribing poor locals to help them steal ancient sculptures.</blockquote> <p>Yes, I agree on you with this one. There are been numerous incidents where ancient treasures were taken and transported under questionable, unsavory, and shady circumstances; one particular episode that comes to mind is Afghani Buddhist art that somehow made it to musuems in New York. Other occurances involve African valuables that have been smuggled into Western museums by wealthy Westerner collectors.</p> <blockquote>It is very dangerous for any group or culture (especially one lead by former colonial oppressors) to dictate to another how their own <u>national culture</u> should be preserved.</blockquote> <p>While I agree with the idea that a group or culture that "dictates another how their own national culture should be preserved", I squirm a bit when I hear the phrase "national culture". I would take issue with the concept such as "national culture". "National culture" suggests that it is something that is "official", and therefore subject and/or susceptible to being manufactured and elevated.</p> <blockquote>I have done my research; I have a degree in Asian studies from a <u>prominent</u> University. What are your qualifications? </blockquote> <p>Ouch. While you raise points that I agree with, you really killed the discussion with this assertion. I did read your subsequent clarification re: this affirmation, but I'd just like to say that I have met those with degrees from "prominent" universities who don't know shit. I have also met those without degrees, or degrees from unknown or not so prestigious universities, who have been extremely intellectually stimulating. As they say, "clothes does not make the monk". Furthermore, "prominent" and its connotation is relative: a well known, "prominent" university doesn't necessarily mean that it is engaging in thought-provoking and worthwhile work; "prominent" at times comes to mean that it has a lot of endowments and its market value is extremely high. This doesn't mean that the quality of education is somehow more superior.</p> <p>In my mind, I think there are multiple manifestations of colonialism and imperialism. Colonialism and imperialism doesn't stop at just politics and economy; but it extends to all realms. Here, I am reminded of the most precious Arab manuscripts and artwork found in French Museums which had been stolen during French colonialism in the Arab; Afghani Buddhist treasures making their way to New York and other places; and rumors about where the Iraqi artifacts that had been looted following the US-led imperial war ended up. Priceless artefacts of (formerly) colonized peoples are war booty. More dangerously, there is the colonization of knowledge and history.</p> Amardeep:

Thanks for writing this piece. As I’ve travelled far and beyond the borders, I’ve noticed how (ex)colonial and imperial powers have the most precious and valuable artwork of the peoples that they have couquered. Museums have a lot of politics implicated in them, and so I’m glad that you’ve raised this issue.

Driver:

Most of the thefts are due to wealthy European and American collectors bribing poor locals to help them steal ancient sculptures.

Yes, I agree on you with this one. There are been numerous incidents where ancient treasures were taken and transported under questionable, unsavory, and shady circumstances; one particular episode that comes to mind is Afghani Buddhist art that somehow made it to musuems in New York. Other occurances involve African valuables that have been smuggled into Western museums by wealthy Westerner collectors.

It is very dangerous for any group or culture (especially one lead by former colonial oppressors) to dictate to another how their own national culture should be preserved.

While I agree with the idea that a group or culture that “dictates another how their own national culture should be preserved”, I squirm a bit when I hear the phrase “national culture”. I would take issue with the concept such as “national culture”. “National culture” suggests that it is something that is “official”, and therefore subject and/or susceptible to being manufactured and elevated.

I have done my research; I have a degree in Asian studies from a prominent University. What are your qualifications?

Ouch. While you raise points that I agree with, you really killed the discussion with this assertion. I did read your subsequent clarification re: this affirmation, but I’d just like to say that I have met those with degrees from “prominent” universities who don’t know shit. I have also met those without degrees, or degrees from unknown or not so prestigious universities, who have been extremely intellectually stimulating. As they say, “clothes does not make the monk”. Furthermore, “prominent” and its connotation is relative: a well known, “prominent” university doesn’t necessarily mean that it is engaging in thought-provoking and worthwhile work; “prominent” at times comes to mean that it has a lot of endowments and its market value is extremely high. This doesn’t mean that the quality of education is somehow more superior.

In my mind, I think there are multiple manifestations of colonialism and imperialism. Colonialism and imperialism doesn’t stop at just politics and economy; but it extends to all realms. Here, I am reminded of the most precious Arab manuscripts and artwork found in French Museums which had been stolen during French colonialism in the Arab; Afghani Buddhist treasures making their way to New York and other places; and rumors about where the Iraqi artifacts that had been looted following the US-led imperial war ended up. Priceless artefacts of (formerly) colonized peoples are war booty. More dangerously, there is the colonization of knowledge and history.

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