Comments on: ‘Slumming’ Takes on a Whole New Meaning http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/09/slumming_takes/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: shiju http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/09/slumming_takes/comment-page-3/#comment-96654 shiju Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:34:13 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3353#comment-96654 <p>we are arranging tours package to kerala:" the gods own country", further enquiry just mail us or go through our website</p> we are arranging tours package to kerala:” the gods own country”, further enquiry just mail us or go through our website

]]>
By: john thompson http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/09/slumming_takes/comment-page-3/#comment-66675 john thompson Wed, 07 Jun 2006 17:58:20 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3353#comment-66675 <p>I was the founder of the SBT tour and spent 6 months developing it as a volunteer. I was disappointed by the Guardian article because I didn't feel it gave a true representation of what the tour is like at all. I appreciate the points raised in this blog and want to shed a bit more light on the discussion.</p> <p>The fact that the program could potentially be exploitative towards the children living in and around the New Delhi Railway station was my most serious consideration from the beginning. Having done the walk over 50 times myself, it has only been once or twice that the group has come within close proximity of street children currently living in the New Delhi Railway station. When this happens the guides are trained to move on and not draw any attention to the child. The tour is given from the perspective of the guides and their previous experiences and does not focus on or involve any of the children presently living in the station. The guides have a good rapport with the children, and the tour group walking through the station has little impact on them considering there are half a million people passing through the station each day and the tour does not at any point enter a slum. No photos are allowed and we only allow the press to take pictures of children within the actual organisation. For these reasons tourists do not get to ‘gapeÂ’ at street children but they do learn how children end up on the streets, what their life is like and most importantly what can be done to help. All the money raised from the tour, which will be a significant amount for the organisation, goes directly to helping the children in the station by providing health care, education, counselling and most importantly a place to call their home and pursue their ambitions. Also, by going on walks such as this and really feeling what life is like for street children, people may then feel compelled to volunteer, or to donate. Within the first few months of running, the tour has been extremely successful in both of these areas.</p> <p>Another issue which has not been mentioned is that we can learn so much from these children and none of positive aspects of the childrenÂ’s lives have been recognised. These are clear when you hear the former street children who guide the tour talking about how much they valued the freedom of their lifestyle and how difficult it was to give up. Yes they are glad they joined the trust but many of the children currently living on the streets are relatively happy there, or at least would rather be there looking after themselves than at school. Working and living with these children on a daily basis in Delhi and earlier in Brazil, I leant so much from them; their compassion, humility and spirit for life will stay with me forever. Their ability to express themselves without feeling self conscious and the guts it took to leave a life that had oppressed them and start anew is inspiring to say the least. Also the tour shows off the significant number of success stories of the former street children who have come through the trust and are now in careers such as a professional photographer in major national newspaper, a choreographer and various.</p> <p>The contrast between people who spend 10 hour days working in jobs they gain very little satisfaction from in order to satisfy material needs that do not seem to make them happy and that the planet cannot sustain, compared with the former street children who are now pursuing their dreams and ambitions while living in extremely basic material circumstances is thought provoking. With this in mind, I feel the tour can go beyond mere western voyeurism where tourists with bright shiny t-shirts gape at street children, but it is a meaningful platform to engage with people from very different backgrounds, which might just make us question how important our bright shiny t-shirts are!</p> <p>This does not mean for a second that we should not support the children; of course we should, and as much and as quickly as possible. There is no getting away from some of the horrific aspects of their lives. However, it is this difference between support and pity, that is crucial, and it is the former that shows a greater understanding of the situation and allows people to learn from each other. ItÂ’s one thing seeing poverty, but to understand it from the people who have lived in it is something different.</p> <p>The walk also strongly benefits the children who have previously lived on the streets who are now living within Salaam Baalak shelter homes. A training program has been set up within the organisation to train these children to be guides, which will economically empower them while also developing their English and communication skills to prepare them well for their future. As people who go on the tour will feel, these guides are very passionate about raising awareness and telling their stories as well as showcasing the work that Salaam Baalak trust does.</p> <p>One final point to clarify is that while tourists are welcome on the tour, the tour has been aimed very much at Indian people; school children, students and corporations etc. One of the nicest moments for me of the whole experience of the tour project was when we took a group of 10 children from a prestigious private school on the tour and they ended up singing songs and making good friends with the former street children in the shelter home. All these children went away feeling that they understood much better the issues that children on the street face, so the next time a kid is selling something at the window of the their parents car, they will be able to empathise with that child. Furthermore, they went away wanting to do something about the issues facing street children whilst hoping to have more freedom in their own lives like the children that they had met.</p> <p>For me the tour does four important things, it gives a number of former street children much needed jobs which they thoroughly enjoy, it raises awareness about the lives of street children, it encourages us to think about the way we live ourselves and finally it helps to raise much needed funds for a fantastic organisation. I feel everything is in place to ensure that the dignity of the street children is respected and it will always be hugely important to me that this is maintained. I would very much welcome any suggestions as to how this can be improved or any other criticisms of the tour.</p> I was the founder of the SBT tour and spent 6 months developing it as a volunteer. I was disappointed by the Guardian article because I didn’t feel it gave a true representation of what the tour is like at all. I appreciate the points raised in this blog and want to shed a bit more light on the discussion.

The fact that the program could potentially be exploitative towards the children living in and around the New Delhi Railway station was my most serious consideration from the beginning. Having done the walk over 50 times myself, it has only been once or twice that the group has come within close proximity of street children currently living in the New Delhi Railway station. When this happens the guides are trained to move on and not draw any attention to the child. The tour is given from the perspective of the guides and their previous experiences and does not focus on or involve any of the children presently living in the station. The guides have a good rapport with the children, and the tour group walking through the station has little impact on them considering there are half a million people passing through the station each day and the tour does not at any point enter a slum. No photos are allowed and we only allow the press to take pictures of children within the actual organisation. For these reasons tourists do not get to ‘gape’ at street children but they do learn how children end up on the streets, what their life is like and most importantly what can be done to help. All the money raised from the tour, which will be a significant amount for the organisation, goes directly to helping the children in the station by providing health care, education, counselling and most importantly a place to call their home and pursue their ambitions. Also, by going on walks such as this and really feeling what life is like for street children, people may then feel compelled to volunteer, or to donate. Within the first few months of running, the tour has been extremely successful in both of these areas.

Another issue which has not been mentioned is that we can learn so much from these children and none of positive aspects of the childrenÂ’s lives have been recognised. These are clear when you hear the former street children who guide the tour talking about how much they valued the freedom of their lifestyle and how difficult it was to give up. Yes they are glad they joined the trust but many of the children currently living on the streets are relatively happy there, or at least would rather be there looking after themselves than at school. Working and living with these children on a daily basis in Delhi and earlier in Brazil, I leant so much from them; their compassion, humility and spirit for life will stay with me forever. Their ability to express themselves without feeling self conscious and the guts it took to leave a life that had oppressed them and start anew is inspiring to say the least. Also the tour shows off the significant number of success stories of the former street children who have come through the trust and are now in careers such as a professional photographer in major national newspaper, a choreographer and various.

The contrast between people who spend 10 hour days working in jobs they gain very little satisfaction from in order to satisfy material needs that do not seem to make them happy and that the planet cannot sustain, compared with the former street children who are now pursuing their dreams and ambitions while living in extremely basic material circumstances is thought provoking. With this in mind, I feel the tour can go beyond mere western voyeurism where tourists with bright shiny t-shirts gape at street children, but it is a meaningful platform to engage with people from very different backgrounds, which might just make us question how important our bright shiny t-shirts are!

This does not mean for a second that we should not support the children; of course we should, and as much and as quickly as possible. There is no getting away from some of the horrific aspects of their lives. However, it is this difference between support and pity, that is crucial, and it is the former that shows a greater understanding of the situation and allows people to learn from each other. ItÂ’s one thing seeing poverty, but to understand it from the people who have lived in it is something different.

The walk also strongly benefits the children who have previously lived on the streets who are now living within Salaam Baalak shelter homes. A training program has been set up within the organisation to train these children to be guides, which will economically empower them while also developing their English and communication skills to prepare them well for their future. As people who go on the tour will feel, these guides are very passionate about raising awareness and telling their stories as well as showcasing the work that Salaam Baalak trust does.

One final point to clarify is that while tourists are welcome on the tour, the tour has been aimed very much at Indian people; school children, students and corporations etc. One of the nicest moments for me of the whole experience of the tour project was when we took a group of 10 children from a prestigious private school on the tour and they ended up singing songs and making good friends with the former street children in the shelter home. All these children went away feeling that they understood much better the issues that children on the street face, so the next time a kid is selling something at the window of the their parents car, they will be able to empathise with that child. Furthermore, they went away wanting to do something about the issues facing street children whilst hoping to have more freedom in their own lives like the children that they had met.

For me the tour does four important things, it gives a number of former street children much needed jobs which they thoroughly enjoy, it raises awareness about the lives of street children, it encourages us to think about the way we live ourselves and finally it helps to raise much needed funds for a fantastic organisation. I feel everything is in place to ensure that the dignity of the street children is respected and it will always be hugely important to me that this is maintained. I would very much welcome any suggestions as to how this can be improved or any other criticisms of the tour.

]]>
By: shiva http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/09/slumming_takes/comment-page-3/#comment-61705 shiva Thu, 11 May 2006 21:44:08 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3353#comment-61705 <blockquote>Dude, why are you blathering at me? :)</blockquote> <p>Eddie - That's why!</p> <blockquote><b>Shruti</b> Um, it took a lot of scholarship to formulate what you call "psycho/socio-babble." Ask the blogger who wrote this post...Positivism went out years ago, daahling. You are quite behind if you didn't realize that one of the main points of this post was to ponder if the numbers (if they were favorable) could come to a reconciliation with the moral ambiguity (see: psycho/socio-babble) of the situation. Accurate answers require more than just empirical data (no matter how much Razib might scoff).</blockquote> <p>What you call <i>scholarship</i> is very underwhelming.</p> <blockquote>(apparently you know their emotions and everything)</blockquote> <p>Not everything, but a lot.</p> Dude, why are you blathering at me? :)

Eddie – That’s why!

Shruti Um, it took a lot of scholarship to formulate what you call “psycho/socio-babble.” Ask the blogger who wrote this post…Positivism went out years ago, daahling. You are quite behind if you didn’t realize that one of the main points of this post was to ponder if the numbers (if they were favorable) could come to a reconciliation with the moral ambiguity (see: psycho/socio-babble) of the situation. Accurate answers require more than just empirical data (no matter how much Razib might scoff).

What you call scholarship is very underwhelming.

(apparently you know their emotions and everything)

Not everything, but a lot.

]]>
By: Al Mujahid for debauchery http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/09/slumming_takes/comment-page-3/#comment-61597 Al Mujahid for debauchery Thu, 11 May 2006 13:55:36 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3353#comment-61597 <p><i>We've had the stereotype of third world india propagated long enough</i></p> <p>'Impoverished India' is not a stereotype. Its a sad reality. Poverty is a fact of life in India for the majority of its people.</p> We’ve had the stereotype of third world india propagated long enough

‘Impoverished India’ is not a stereotype. Its a sad reality. Poverty is a fact of life in India for the majority of its people.

]]>
By: someone else http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/09/slumming_takes/comment-page-3/#comment-61591 someone else Thu, 11 May 2006 09:43:20 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3353#comment-61591 <p>I like shruti :)</p> I like shruti :)

]]>
By: Shruti http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/09/slumming_takes/comment-page-3/#comment-61589 Shruti Thu, 11 May 2006 09:19:36 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3353#comment-61589 <blockquote>Subalterns don't have time for this nonsense and are not misty eyed either about the glorious struggle of the proletariat, and hate to be patronised. And they see nothing wrong about Brand India and would love to get a piece of it, and detest being used to run down "Brand India".</blockquote> <p>This is <b>a lot</b> of speaking for the subaltern (apparently you know their emotions and everything). You had it coming with Eddie calling you out for it. BB mentioned how he wanted to wait until he heard from more tourists before forming a concrete opinion, but nobody mentioned wanting to hear more from the people being put out on display.</p> <blockquote>Being a scholar he steers clear of psycho/socio-babble such as this. <blockquote>Yeah, its the debate between the privileged defenders of Brand India and the equally privileged who believe economic and social good can come from this. Whats missing from the debate is the subaltern herself. What are her thoughts about being gazed at?</blockquote></blockquote> <p>Um, it took a lot of scholarship to formulate what you call "psycho/socio-babble." Ask the blogger who wrote this post. Anyway Shiva, what century do you live in? Positivism went out years ago, daahling. You are quite behind if you didn't realize that one of the main points of this post was to ponder if the numbers (if they were favorable) could come to a reconciliation with the moral ambiguity (see: psycho/socio-babble) of the situation. Accurate answers require more than just empirical data (no matter how much Razib might scoff).</p> Subalterns don’t have time for this nonsense and are not misty eyed either about the glorious struggle of the proletariat, and hate to be patronised. And they see nothing wrong about Brand India and would love to get a piece of it, and detest being used to run down “Brand India”.

This is a lot of speaking for the subaltern (apparently you know their emotions and everything). You had it coming with Eddie calling you out for it. BB mentioned how he wanted to wait until he heard from more tourists before forming a concrete opinion, but nobody mentioned wanting to hear more from the people being put out on display.

Being a scholar he steers clear of psycho/socio-babble such as this.
Yeah, its the debate between the privileged defenders of Brand India and the equally privileged who believe economic and social good can come from this. Whats missing from the debate is the subaltern herself. What are her thoughts about being gazed at?

Um, it took a lot of scholarship to formulate what you call “psycho/socio-babble.” Ask the blogger who wrote this post. Anyway Shiva, what century do you live in? Positivism went out years ago, daahling. You are quite behind if you didn’t realize that one of the main points of this post was to ponder if the numbers (if they were favorable) could come to a reconciliation with the moral ambiguity (see: psycho/socio-babble) of the situation. Accurate answers require more than just empirical data (no matter how much Razib might scoff).

]]>
By: someone else http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/09/slumming_takes/comment-page-3/#comment-61543 someone else Thu, 11 May 2006 02:15:28 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3353#comment-61543 <p><i>a new tourism phenomenon in India: slum tours</i></p> <p>This is curious to me too. Is it really new or is it just a different form of the same kind of exploitation that used to happen? I really do mean this as a question, not a point disguised as one :)</p> a new tourism phenomenon in India: slum tours

This is curious to me too. Is it really new or is it just a different form of the same kind of exploitation that used to happen? I really do mean this as a question, not a point disguised as one :)

]]>
By: someone else http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/09/slumming_takes/comment-page-3/#comment-61539 someone else Thu, 11 May 2006 02:10:39 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3353#comment-61539 <p><i>It's a bit inconsistent - it's OK for tourists to turn a blind eye, but if they're going to be interested in poverty then they have to live in the slums for weeks and work as a social worker? If it's OK to turn a blind eye, then why isn't it OK to pay an NGO for a tour? The money all goes back into the community, and the tourists are being educated.</i></p> <p>The argument here depends on the quality of the NGO and what it does. You could find a tourist-fleecing poverty-pimping group masquerading as an NGO and you could find a for-profit group giving tours that might do more good than harm. I think the overall points are that you should a) be aware that where you're going is not necessarily where you're from and b) not egregiously exploit that for your own amusement and to the detriment of other people's dignity any more than you would at home. There's lots and lots of room in there for people to do what they want within those bounds.</p> <p>But the more fundamental question boils is whether a tourism-centered economy as a whole is okay or not (it certainly seemed fairly destructive in North Goa beach towns for Europeans, Israelies, etc. when I was there) and whether you want to support the gross inequalities on a global and national scale that allow these kinds of situations to exist. Everything else is just nibbling around the edges but probably needs to go deeper if you're really concerned with morality (vs. appearance or propriety).</p> It’s a bit inconsistent – it’s OK for tourists to turn a blind eye, but if they’re going to be interested in poverty then they have to live in the slums for weeks and work as a social worker? If it’s OK to turn a blind eye, then why isn’t it OK to pay an NGO for a tour? The money all goes back into the community, and the tourists are being educated.

The argument here depends on the quality of the NGO and what it does. You could find a tourist-fleecing poverty-pimping group masquerading as an NGO and you could find a for-profit group giving tours that might do more good than harm. I think the overall points are that you should a) be aware that where you’re going is not necessarily where you’re from and b) not egregiously exploit that for your own amusement and to the detriment of other people’s dignity any more than you would at home. There’s lots and lots of room in there for people to do what they want within those bounds.

But the more fundamental question boils is whether a tourism-centered economy as a whole is okay or not (it certainly seemed fairly destructive in North Goa beach towns for Europeans, Israelies, etc. when I was there) and whether you want to support the gross inequalities on a global and national scale that allow these kinds of situations to exist. Everything else is just nibbling around the edges but probably needs to go deeper if you’re really concerned with morality (vs. appearance or propriety).

]]>
By: Eddie http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/09/slumming_takes/comment-page-3/#comment-61523 Eddie Wed, 10 May 2006 23:56:46 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3353#comment-61523 <p><i>Shabbash, so you too can smirk! Same old empowerers! What's new?</i></p> <p>Dude, why are you blathering at me? :) Look what I wrote in the part of my paragraph you chose not to quote and tell me how it would contradict Prahalad:</p> <p>I said:</p> <p><i> Some, like Dharavi are remarkably productive and may have per capita GDPs higher than most of the rest of India. <b>There is plenty of wealth and talent lurking in the favellas and shantytowns of the world. Perhaps white tourism isn't necessarily what the subaltern wants</b>, nor is it necessarily the best way forward. Let her speak.<i></p> <p></i></i></p> Shabbash, so you too can smirk! Same old empowerers! What’s new?

Dude, why are you blathering at me? :) Look what I wrote in the part of my paragraph you chose not to quote and tell me how it would contradict Prahalad:

I said:

Some, like Dharavi are remarkably productive and may have per capita GDPs higher than most of the rest of India. There is plenty of wealth and talent lurking in the favellas and shantytowns of the world. Perhaps white tourism isn’t necessarily what the subaltern wants, nor is it necessarily the best way forward. Let her speak.

]]>
By: shiva http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/09/slumming_takes/comment-page-2/#comment-61519 shiva Wed, 10 May 2006 23:48:26 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3353#comment-61519 <blockquote>Yeah right bubba, speaking for the subaltern yet again. :-)</blockquote> <p>Shabbash, so you too can smirk! Same old empowerers! What's new?</p> Yeah right bubba, speaking for the subaltern yet again. :-)

Shabbash, so you too can smirk! Same old empowerers! What’s new?

]]>