Comments on: GWOT Update… Got Another One… In Pakistan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/03/gwot_update_got/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: RCK http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/03/gwot_update_got/comment-page-2/#comment-60853 RCK Sun, 07 May 2006 08:56:34 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3331#comment-60853 <h1>89:</h1> <p>The links on that search deal with the dereliction of duty by the Gujarat administration in the post-Godhra riots and not with the Godhra incident itself. It has been more than 4 years since that coach caught fire, and no one is any closer to knowing what actually happened that morning. Even if we dismiss the Justice Bannerjee report, the mystery is no closer to being solved. The Forensic Science Laboratory report, the depositions before the Nanavati-Shah Commission [appointed by Modi], the police chargesheet - they all give different accounts. Evidence was not collected properly, and the political compulsions seem to have been considered more important than the investigative procedure.</p> <p>You can take a look <a href="http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2006/stories/20030328003203700.htm">here</a> and <a href="http://www.countercurrents.org/guj-varadarajan220804.htm">here</a> to see just messily the whole situation was handled.</p> 89:

The links on that search deal with the dereliction of duty by the Gujarat administration in the post-Godhra riots and not with the Godhra incident itself. It has been more than 4 years since that coach caught fire, and no one is any closer to knowing what actually happened that morning. Even if we dismiss the Justice Bannerjee report, the mystery is no closer to being solved. The Forensic Science Laboratory report, the depositions before the Nanavati-Shah Commission [appointed by Modi], the police chargesheet – they all give different accounts. Evidence was not collected properly, and the political compulsions seem to have been considered more important than the investigative procedure.

You can take a look here and here to see just messily the whole situation was handled.

]]>
By: someone else http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/03/gwot_update_got/comment-page-2/#comment-60791 someone else Sat, 06 May 2006 22:51:39 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3331#comment-60791 <p>Just go read <a href="http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&q=%22we+have+no+orders+to+save+you%22">the Human Rights Watch report</a> on this incident (the link wasn't working so I send you to a Google Search on it).</p> Just go read the Human Rights Watch report on this incident (the link wasn’t working so I send you to a Google Search on it).

]]>
By: Madurai Vivekan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/03/gwot_update_got/comment-page-2/#comment-60756 Madurai Vivekan Sat, 06 May 2006 20:07:16 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3331#comment-60756 <p>I don't think we're going to get much farther than this; the last word is yours.</p> I don’t think we’re going to get much farther than this; the last word is yours.

]]>
By: Gaurav http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/03/gwot_update_got/comment-page-2/#comment-60755 Gaurav Sat, 06 May 2006 19:59:55 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3331#comment-60755 <p>MV (86#)</p> <p>I did not mean you, I meant many others. As you are sure about your reaction, I am also sure about the media reaction in the immediate aftermath of Godhra (and before riots) and it was overwhelming denial. All sorts of conspiracy theories (the most popular and sick one was that karsevaks had abducted a Muslims girl and she was in the train)</p> <p>I have said that Narendra Modi is an unethical demogogue and I stand by it, however it is a two way street.</p> <p>Further Justice Banerjee report is a hogwash. Trust me it is not very easy to <i>accidently</i> burn the train. The official commission is Nanavati commission, let us wait for its result.</p> <p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gujarat_violence">From Wikipidia </a></p> <p>" ....Two years after the incident Railway Minister Lalu Prasad Yadav appointed Justice Banerjee to investigate the cause of fire.<b> On the eve of election in Railway Minister's Native State Bihar</b>, Justice Banerjee submitted an interim report concluding that the fire and attack are two separate events. It claimed, very controversially, that the fire was likely started from within the train, and not by a mob gathered outside the train [1]. <b>This interim report and Bin Laden Clones were used in Bihar Election to attract Muslim votes</b>. [2] [3].<b> The Interim Report's credibilty is in serious doubt due to timing of it's release and subsequent use in election campaigning </b>[4] [5]...."</p> <p>Further the casuality as quoted by "secular" UPA government for post Godhara Riots was</p> <p>"... According to an Indian Central Government report released in 2005, 254 Hindus and 790 Muslims were killed with an estimated 223 deemed missing... "</p> <p>So Hindus were also killed however no one ever bothers to mention it.</p> <p>Lastly Hindu Muslim tension in India is too complicated an issue to be made into ideological football match and yet that's what happens.</p> <p>Regards</p> MV (86#)

I did not mean you, I meant many others. As you are sure about your reaction, I am also sure about the media reaction in the immediate aftermath of Godhra (and before riots) and it was overwhelming denial. All sorts of conspiracy theories (the most popular and sick one was that karsevaks had abducted a Muslims girl and she was in the train)

I have said that Narendra Modi is an unethical demogogue and I stand by it, however it is a two way street.

Further Justice Banerjee report is a hogwash. Trust me it is not very easy to accidently burn the train. The official commission is Nanavati commission, let us wait for its result.

From Wikipidia

” ….Two years after the incident Railway Minister Lalu Prasad Yadav appointed Justice Banerjee to investigate the cause of fire. On the eve of election in Railway Minister’s Native State Bihar, Justice Banerjee submitted an interim report concluding that the fire and attack are two separate events. It claimed, very controversially, that the fire was likely started from within the train, and not by a mob gathered outside the train [1]. This interim report and Bin Laden Clones were used in Bihar Election to attract Muslim votes. [2] [3]. The Interim Report’s credibilty is in serious doubt due to timing of it’s release and subsequent use in election campaigning [4] [5]….”

Further the casuality as quoted by “secular” UPA government for post Godhara Riots was

“… According to an Indian Central Government report released in 2005, 254 Hindus and 790 Muslims were killed with an estimated 223 deemed missing… “

So Hindus were also killed however no one ever bothers to mention it.

Lastly Hindu Muslim tension in India is too complicated an issue to be made into ideological football match and yet that’s what happens.

Regards

]]>
By: Madurai Vivekan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/03/gwot_update_got/comment-page-2/#comment-60754 Madurai Vivekan Sat, 06 May 2006 19:37:05 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3331#comment-60754 <p>Gaurav,</p> <p>I just re-read all of our posts (it's been a few days), and yes, I can see that your invocation of spontaneous combustion was coated with a heavy dose of sarcasm and was not intended as humor.</p> <p>however:</p> <p>No one is brushing off Godhra. What happened that day was indeed horrendous, and you cannot know the reaction that I, as a human being, had upon opening the newspaper that day.</p> <p>As a Hindu, you can do what you will. But the Banerjee Commission findings suggest that those 59 people did not die that day because they were Hindu. There is no doubt that in the following weeks and months, thousands of people died because they were Muslim.</p> <p>And people in positions of power in Gujarat - from the police to the state government - HAVE brushed off those thousands of deaths.</p> Gaurav,

I just re-read all of our posts (it’s been a few days), and yes, I can see that your invocation of spontaneous combustion was coated with a heavy dose of sarcasm and was not intended as humor.

however:

No one is brushing off Godhra. What happened that day was indeed horrendous, and you cannot know the reaction that I, as a human being, had upon opening the newspaper that day.

As a Hindu, you can do what you will. But the Banerjee Commission findings suggest that those 59 people did not die that day because they were Hindu. There is no doubt that in the following weeks and months, thousands of people died because they were Muslim.

And people in positions of power in Gujarat – from the police to the state government – HAVE brushed off those thousands of deaths.

]]>
By: Gaurav http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/03/gwot_update_got/comment-page-2/#comment-60748 Gaurav Sat, 06 May 2006 19:00:54 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3331#comment-60748 <p>MV (84#)</p> <p>My invocation of <a href="http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/003331.html#comment60124">spontaneous combustion</a> was not a jokeit was heavy duty sarcasm.</p> <p>I have seen this disconcenrting tendency by people with certain ideological bent to brush off Godhra. As a Hindu I will be damnded if I am going to let it be brushed off.</p> <p>Regards</p> MV (84#)

My invocation of spontaneous combustion was not a jokeit was heavy duty sarcasm.

I have seen this disconcenrting tendency by people with certain ideological bent to brush off Godhra. As a Hindu I will be damnded if I am going to let it be brushed off.

Regards

]]>
By: Madurai Vivekan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/03/gwot_update_got/comment-page-2/#comment-60738 Madurai Vivekan Sat, 06 May 2006 18:27:35 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3331#comment-60738 <p>RCK (#81):</p> <blockquote>Though, personally, I'd have thought that the dismissal of the Godhra incident as a case of spontaneous combustion of Hindus would seem more offensive...</blockquote> <p>Your point is well taken, and I did consider this. The reason I jumped on your comments was that I wasn't expecting something like that from you, given the stuff you normally write and had written in this thread until that point. Sorry, should have been consistent.</p> RCK (#81):

Though, personally, I’d have thought that the dismissal of the Godhra incident as a case of spontaneous combustion of Hindus would seem more offensive…

Your point is well taken, and I did consider this. The reason I jumped on your comments was that I wasn’t expecting something like that from you, given the stuff you normally write and had written in this thread until that point. Sorry, should have been consistent.

]]>
By: someone else http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/03/gwot_update_got/comment-page-2/#comment-60356 someone else Fri, 05 May 2006 06:31:10 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3331#comment-60356 <p><i>And the term "Paki" while perhaps possibly contentious does not have quite the same import as the "N word"</i></p> <p>Go to England. Maybe it's not the same (I honesty don't know), but it's a lot worse in the UK than in the U.S.</p> And the term “Paki” while perhaps possibly contentious does not have quite the same import as the “N word”

Go to England. Maybe it’s not the same (I honesty don’t know), but it’s a lot worse in the UK than in the U.S.

]]>
By: Al Mujahid for debauchery http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/03/gwot_update_got/comment-page-2/#comment-60300 Al Mujahid for debauchery Fri, 05 May 2006 00:09:45 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3331#comment-60300 <p>The NASABA conference is a good place to start. One way of contacting desi lawyers, would be to start with the Bar associations. Almost all Bar associations in Ohio have the Cleveland or Columbus or Cinicinnati Bar Directories. The Bar Directories usually have names of all the members so you could look for Indian names. Now lawyers like me who have Muslim/Arabic names and who donÂ’t practice law in the state of Ohio would probably not be traceable but it should help with the overtly Hindi sounding names.</p> The NASABA conference is a good place to start. One way of contacting desi lawyers, would be to start with the Bar associations. Almost all Bar associations in Ohio have the Cleveland or Columbus or Cinicinnati Bar Directories. The Bar Directories usually have names of all the members so you could look for Indian names. Now lawyers like me who have Muslim/Arabic names and who donÂ’t practice law in the state of Ohio would probably not be traceable but it should help with the overtly Hindi sounding names.

]]>
By: RCK http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/05/03/gwot_update_got/comment-page-2/#comment-60260 RCK Thu, 04 May 2006 21:18:49 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3331#comment-60260 <p><i>the problem is when the punchline becomes real people actually doing these things. in this case, it's acutal women burning themselves alive. oh haha, what a knee-slapper!<i></p> <p>Oh my! My words became real people and burnt themselves alive?!?!</p> <p>Seriously though, finding a joke tasteless is not the same as assuming people are taking myths literally. Since your objections have come down to the former, I'll drop it here. I do not subscribe to this kind of excessive political correctness but have no problems with others doing so. Though, personally, I'd have thought that the dismissal of the Godhra incident as a case of spontaneous combustion of Hindus would seem more offensive...</p> the problem is when the punchline becomes real people actually doing these things. in this case, it’s acutal women burning themselves alive. oh haha, what a knee-slapper!

Oh my! My words became real people and burnt themselves alive?!?!

Seriously though, finding a joke tasteless is not the same as assuming people are taking myths literally. Since your objections have come down to the former, I’ll drop it here. I do not subscribe to this kind of excessive political correctness but have no problems with others doing so. Though, personally, I’d have thought that the dismissal of the Godhra incident as a case of spontaneous combustion of Hindus would seem more offensive…

]]>