Comments on: Quota killers

By: Manish Vij

Manish Vij — Mon, 01 May 2006 21:59:50 +0000

It seems to have escaped some commenters that this post is about the CBI report about the killings allegedly conducted by the Indian army. Indian voters have far more control over the actions of its government than the actions of terrorists.

Demanding that any post about one party's wrongdoings also include the disclaimer that 'terrorists are evil' is both banal and creates a false moral equivalence-- I hold elected governments to higher standards than murderous criminals.

By: alcohalics ananymous

alcohalics ananymous — Mon, 01 May 2006 21:56:24 +0000

Kyon re Manish, abhi do phahar mein bhi peene laga

By: Nacheez

Nacheez — Mon, 01 May 2006 21:50:37 +0000

Razib - man you have to bend over backwards to rationalize Manish's response and even then your defense doesn't make sense. Sure the custodians of law are to be held to a higher standard but can you explain why we are talking about that now ? Where is the fake encounter/human rights violation in this case ? This looks like a clear attempt to hijack the discussion from a condemnation of heinous massacre to a more general true-for-all-times platitudinous agonizing of the 'who among us has not sinned' kind.

By: Biharu Babu

Biharu Babu — Mon, 01 May 2006 21:47:57 +0000

Razib: I do agree with you 100%. If those that are there to 'protect' you acfttually turn 'against' you then it is a point of note. BUT...

The point is that an Army is there to do a job and the jawans and troops are generally young. All armies are like this. They do crazy things. They are also taught to kill.

I'm not suggesting the Indian Army are angles but they are protecting 1.2 billion people from possible attack, invasion and terrorism on a daily basis. They have done this under very tough conditions - made worse by political agendas and corruption.

In short, the Indian army protects our freedom to express our dissent against it.

manish, your comparison is mistaken.

By: ga

ga — Mon, 01 May 2006 21:44:03 +0000

Manish Sir, By the virtue of you being a partner on this blog, you are able to write such nonsense that people feel compelled to respond. You know you went over the line. Might as well close this to comments unless your aim was to enflame. Indian Army may sometimes be on the other side of human rights lakshman rekha but this is a wrong event for this point to be made.

By: razib_the_atheist

razib_the_atheist — Mon, 01 May 2006 21:37:57 +0000

i see where you guys are coming from...but i didn't see the moral equivalence because knowing manish (since he has a long track record posting stuff) i simply assumed that there is a background assumption that of course the scale of islamic militant terrorism is horrible and worst than what the indian gov. does on absolute grounds. but, the key is that criminals, gangsters and terrorists do what they do and though we are appalled, it is unfortunately the way of the world. on the other hand, when we find out that the "good guys" engage in this sort of behavior i think it does often merit particular attention because civilized people are held to different standards. in other words, here in the USA a rash of killings perpetrated by police officers warrants greater notice than greater numbers perpetrated by gangsters, and no one is making a moral equivalence, only that when those who should protect turn into the devil than we really have issues....

By: Whose God is it anyways?

Whose God is it anyways? — Mon, 01 May 2006 21:37:35 +0000

"but it doesnÂ’t mention the horrific fact that the perps are sometimes from the Indian army.

isn't that what the NYT is implying in this sentence: "killings, blamed on both security forces and militants, have hardly vanished?"

also, the location of your ellipses kind of distorts the NYT piece. They weren't linking the Sikh killings specifically to the phrase "killings, blamed on both security forces and militants." although, in the aftermath of the Sikh massacre, there were those who rushed to blame the massacre on RAW and Indian security forces.

there's no doubt that it's a vicious circle in Kashmir and Indian security forces have committed abuses. what's good is that these are being dealt with by the law. it would also help if the vocal anti-security forces people like Roy, who call for their withdrawal from Kashmir (but then during the earthquake aftermath the same people scream that the Indian security forces are not doing enough in Kashmir) would also at least come across as somewhat sympathetic and one-hundredth as vocal about the people who are murdered by terrorists/militants and who have been condemned to living their lives in refugee camps inside and outside of their home Kashmir. Some Pandits have even been forced to sell their young daughters or hire them out as laborers.

By: Amardeep

Amardeep — Mon, 01 May 2006 21:36:58 +0000

Wait, I don't see what's wrong with this post.

The stuff about the army quotas for dead militants is real, and it is extremely troubling. We don't need to get into "equivalences," and I don't think Manish has done that. We just need to recognize that the army has a bad strategy, one that is both ineffective and morally unsound.

The focus should be on getting them to change their policies (I think they can), not on name-calling.

By: S Jain

S Jain — Mon, 01 May 2006 21:29:25 +0000

On 2nd thought, I don’t know where to even began further criticizing this post … this post is just wrong on so many levels. I am just trying to think as what would prompt a person like you to equate thousands of senseless killing by terrorist to few person killed by Indian army. I am afraid now you are going to close this comments on this post very soon and people won’t really have chance to correct the “ultra-left” brainwashed ideology bredding in ABCDs.

By: S Jain

S Jain — Mon, 01 May 2006 21:23:22 +0000

Manish, Thanks for implying that Indian Army and the Pakistani Supported Terrorist ( or should I say suspected terrorist or Indian Army personel deployed by L K Advani to spring Hindu Muslim Riots) are equal.