Comments on: The Britannia Cartel (updated) http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/27/the_east_india/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: mughal http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/27/the_east_india/comment-page-2/#comment-212891 mughal Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:58:17 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3208#comment-212891 <p>During Mughal and British rule it was illegitimate class who associated them by giving them their females.</p> <p>http://persian.packhum.org/persian/ Some of the Hindoos assert, that the tribes of Brahmin and Kshetry existed from time imme­morial, but that the Rajpoots are a modern tribe, only known since the beginning of the Kulyoog. The same is related of many other different tribes. The Rajpoots attained power since the death of Raja Vikramajeet, from whom is derived the present Hindoo era, being something more than 1600 years. The origin of the Rajpoots is thus related. The rajas, not satisfied with their married wives, had frequently children by their female slaves, who, although not legitimate successors to the throne, were styled Rajpoots, or the children of the rajas, and the children of Raja Sooruj, whose history we shall now relate, were the first to whom the name of rajpoot was given. The population of India, like that of other parts of the globe, arose from the descendants of Noah. After the flood, Noah's three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japhet, began to cultivate the fields for their own subsistence and that of their children.</p> During Mughal and British rule it was illegitimate class who associated them by giving them their females.

http://persian.packhum.org/persian/ Some of the Hindoos assert, that the tribes of Brahmin and Kshetry existed from time imme­morial, but that the Rajpoots are a modern tribe, only known since the beginning of the Kulyoog. The same is related of many other different tribes. The Rajpoots attained power since the death of Raja Vikramajeet, from whom is derived the present Hindoo era, being something more than 1600 years. The origin of the Rajpoots is thus related. The rajas, not satisfied with their married wives, had frequently children by their female slaves, who, although not legitimate successors to the throne, were styled Rajpoots, or the children of the rajas, and the children of Raja Sooruj, whose history we shall now relate, were the first to whom the name of rajpoot was given. The population of India, like that of other parts of the globe, arose from the descendants of Noah. After the flood, Noah’s three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japhet, began to cultivate the fields for their own subsistence and that of their children.

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By: a more original name http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/27/the_east_india/comment-page-2/#comment-52536 a more original name Thu, 30 Mar 2006 07:27:12 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3208#comment-52536 <p>Yes indeed, Ennis. Hence, the existence of the DEA.</p> Yes indeed, Ennis. Hence, the existence of the DEA.

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By: Ennis http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/27/the_east_india/comment-page-2/#comment-52519 Ennis Thu, 30 Mar 2006 05:05:55 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3208#comment-52519 <p>Much of the world is involved in the drugs trade to US today, no?</p> Much of the world is involved in the drugs trade to US today, no?

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By: Sanjay http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/27/the_east_india/comment-page-2/#comment-52501 Sanjay Thu, 30 Mar 2006 02:52:09 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3208#comment-52501 <p>Ennis,</p> <p>I think this last assessment is perhaps too harsh:</p> <blockquote>This is consistent with the analysis of both the EIC and the Raj as gangsters, since their top two revenue producing activities were protection and drugs.</blockquote> <p>To be fair, it was not just the EIC & the Raj, almost half the globe was engaged in the opium trade. What eventually killed the golden goose was that China legalized its cultivation & use - effectively becoming their own drugs suppliers.</p> Ennis,

I think this last assessment is perhaps too harsh:

This is consistent with the analysis of both the EIC and the Raj as gangsters, since their top two revenue producing activities were protection and drugs.

To be fair, it was not just the EIC & the Raj, almost half the globe was engaged in the opium trade. What eventually killed the golden goose was that China legalized its cultivation & use – effectively becoming their own drugs suppliers.

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By: epoch http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/27/the_east_india/comment-page-2/#comment-52489 epoch Wed, 29 Mar 2006 23:30:22 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3208#comment-52489 <blockquote>how were the chinese able to pay for the opium?</blockquote> <p>Silver. China had lots of it.</p> <p>The British needed silver to pay Indian traders who wouldn't accept anything besides precious metals.</p> how were the chinese able to pay for the opium?

Silver. China had lots of it.

The British needed silver to pay Indian traders who wouldn’t accept anything besides precious metals.

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By: Ennis http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/27/the_east_india/comment-page-2/#comment-52484 Ennis Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:57:32 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3208#comment-52484 <blockquote>The real estate acquired by the East India Company in India was acquired by the British government after what used to called the Sepoy Mutiny. There was a transfer of political ownership to a different entity, one that was more humane.</blockquote> <p>As the update should make clear, the opium trade actually increased when the crown formally took over from the EIC. So Shyam's explanation, while a reasonable guess, is factually incorrect. This argument stands even if one were to incorrectly assume that the EIC and the Crown had been totally separate before the Great Mutiny.</p> The real estate acquired by the East India Company in India was acquired by the British government after what used to called the Sepoy Mutiny. There was a transfer of political ownership to a different entity, one that was more humane.

As the update should make clear, the opium trade actually increased when the crown formally took over from the EIC. So Shyam’s explanation, while a reasonable guess, is factually incorrect. This argument stands even if one were to incorrectly assume that the EIC and the Crown had been totally separate before the Great Mutiny.

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By: badmash http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/27/the_east_india/comment-page-2/#comment-52479 badmash Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:28:47 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3208#comment-52479 <blockquote>Interestingly, I believe the use of opium was already quite widespread in some quarters of India by the time the British came along, especially during Mughal times. </blockquote> <p>Right you are Jai - then again, it's only expected that you would be up on your Mughal history :)</p> Interestingly, I believe the use of opium was already quite widespread in some quarters of India by the time the British came along, especially during Mughal times.

Right you are Jai – then again, it’s only expected that you would be up on your Mughal history :)

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By: Sanjay http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/27/the_east_india/comment-page-2/#comment-52476 Sanjay Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:14:17 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3208#comment-52476 <p>MF wrote:</p> <blockquote><i>The use of opium within India is also a bit odd as it never really took off as it did in China.</i> </blockquote> <p>I've been intrigued by this for a long time since it is key to understanding how this whole opium trade was sustainable for over a century. Ennis' comment shows the global scale of this trade:</p> <blockquote><i>Imperial trade in opium was central to the success of the British empire</i></blockquote> <p>If millions of Chinese were so deeply addicted to opium over several generations, how could they do <b>any</b> productive work? given that a drug addict is unable to do any useful work, how were the chinese able to pay for the opium?</p> <p>Something doesn't quite add up or perhaps I'm missing something.</p> MF wrote:

The use of opium within India is also a bit odd as it never really took off as it did in China.

I’ve been intrigued by this for a long time since it is key to understanding how this whole opium trade was sustainable for over a century. Ennis’ comment shows the global scale of this trade:

Imperial trade in opium was central to the success of the British empire

If millions of Chinese were so deeply addicted to opium over several generations, how could they do any productive work? given that a drug addict is unable to do any useful work, how were the chinese able to pay for the opium?

Something doesn’t quite add up or perhaps I’m missing something.

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By: Jai http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/27/the_east_india/comment-page-2/#comment-52421 Jai Wed, 29 Mar 2006 15:53:36 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3208#comment-52421 <blockquote>I was trying to make a broader point about opium and the empire. </blockquote> <p>Interestingly, I believe the use of opium was already quite widespread in some quarters of India by the time the British came along, especially during Mughal times. (And didn't the Emperor Humayun accidentally kill himself because he was high on opium once and, upon hearing the 'azaan', apparently tried to do 'namaaz' while walking down some stairs ?).</p> <p>Also, Afghanistan is currently one of the world's biggest suppliers of opium.</p> <p>Another piece of historical info : Some Rajput soldiers would drink a draft of opium if they were about to go into an "unwinnable" battle, as the drug would increase their ferocity. I presume that it would also act as a painkiller to some extent -- you'd really "go out on a high".</p> I was trying to make a broader point about opium and the empire.

Interestingly, I believe the use of opium was already quite widespread in some quarters of India by the time the British came along, especially during Mughal times. (And didn’t the Emperor Humayun accidentally kill himself because he was high on opium once and, upon hearing the ‘azaan’, apparently tried to do ‘namaaz’ while walking down some stairs ?).

Also, Afghanistan is currently one of the world’s biggest suppliers of opium.

Another piece of historical info : Some Rajput soldiers would drink a draft of opium if they were about to go into an “unwinnable” battle, as the drug would increase their ferocity. I presume that it would also act as a painkiller to some extent — you’d really “go out on a high”.

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By: bengali http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/27/the_east_india/comment-page-2/#comment-52404 bengali Wed, 29 Mar 2006 08:14:33 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3208#comment-52404 <p>Kush Tandon:</p> <blockquote>Please remember, this started slightly before the onset of WW II</blockquote> <p>A period of 8 years can hardly be classified as 'colonisation' in the Indian, African & American sense. A more accurate label would be 'occupation'.</p> Kush Tandon:

Please remember, this started slightly before the onset of WW II

A period of 8 years can hardly be classified as ‘colonisation’ in the Indian, African & American sense. A more accurate label would be ‘occupation’.

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