Comments on: Marital Advice from the Homeland http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/27/marital_advice_1/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Kali http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/27/marital_advice_1/comment-page-1/#comment-52568 Kali Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:59:36 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3206#comment-52568 <blockquote>When the BJP was clamoring for UCC a few years ago I shuddered to think of what shape a BJP-crafted UCC would take</blockquote> <p>Regardless of who takes over the task of UCC, it'll be a messay affair. If Indian Muslim identity is seen to be reflected in the Indian fragmented civil code, then it is that that would probably bring the serious backlash and anger from this population. As far as I know, other minorities are not as opposed to it as the Muslims.</p> When the BJP was clamoring for UCC a few years ago I shuddered to think of what shape a BJP-crafted UCC would take

Regardless of who takes over the task of UCC, it’ll be a messay affair. If Indian Muslim identity is seen to be reflected in the Indian fragmented civil code, then it is that that would probably bring the serious backlash and anger from this population. As far as I know, other minorities are not as opposed to it as the Muslims.

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By: Gaurav http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/27/marital_advice_1/comment-page-1/#comment-52565 Gaurav Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:32:27 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3206#comment-52565 <p>"I shuddered to think of what shape a BJP-crafted UCC would take."</p> <p>Oh Boy!</p> “I shuddered to think of what shape a BJP-crafted UCC would take.”

Oh Boy!

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By: Madurai Vivekan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/27/marital_advice_1/comment-page-1/#comment-52564 Madurai Vivekan Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:28:05 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3206#comment-52564 <p>Hari (#30):</p> <blockquote>It gives Muslims an important sense of identity and greater ownership in the Indian nation.</blockquote> <p>This is a brand of secularism I don't buy because it leaves the law-making to the clerics, so we end up with absurd situations like this one. I don't see how anyone can look at a set of laws which produces such a scenario as empowering, or one to be proud of.</p> <p>That said, this is a problem which completely stumps me. I think there is a strong need for a Uniform Civil Code (UCC) which takes power out of the hands of religious authorities (both saffron and green), but I don't trust anyone to make it. When the BJP was clamoring for UCC a few years ago I shuddered to think of what shape a BJP-crafted UCC would take.</p> <p>Can anybody help me out on this one?</p> Hari (#30):

It gives Muslims an important sense of identity and greater ownership in the Indian nation.

This is a brand of secularism I don’t buy because it leaves the law-making to the clerics, so we end up with absurd situations like this one. I don’t see how anyone can look at a set of laws which produces such a scenario as empowering, or one to be proud of.

That said, this is a problem which completely stumps me. I think there is a strong need for a Uniform Civil Code (UCC) which takes power out of the hands of religious authorities (both saffron and green), but I don’t trust anyone to make it. When the BJP was clamoring for UCC a few years ago I shuddered to think of what shape a BJP-crafted UCC would take.

Can anybody help me out on this one?

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By: Kali http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/27/marital_advice_1/comment-page-1/#comment-52529 Kali Thu, 30 Mar 2006 06:48:54 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3206#comment-52529 <blockquote> It gives Muslims an important sense of identity and greater ownership in the Indian nation</blockquote> <p>For which the system must remain fragmented? The certain aspects that are harmful, usually have the most effect.</p> <p>Most of the clauses provided in for 'protection of minorities' seek to discriminate against women as these clauses largely pertain to family law.</p> It gives Muslims an important sense of identity and greater ownership in the Indian nation

For which the system must remain fragmented? The certain aspects that are harmful, usually have the most effect.

Most of the clauses provided in for ‘protection of minorities’ seek to discriminate against women as these clauses largely pertain to family law.

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By: Hari http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/27/marital_advice_1/comment-page-1/#comment-52515 Hari Thu, 30 Mar 2006 04:45:20 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3206#comment-52515 <p>Jane:</p> <p>I'm not sure I agree with you. I find that political civil society is mich stornger in "poor" countries like India than it is here in the U.S. If you asked the average man on the street in India who their MLA and MP were and what they've done, you would get a pretty decent answer. I don't think that's true here at all. The masses in India have consistently voted out people and governments they felt to be inadequate; I've seen very few "Strom Thurmonds" in the Lok Sabha.</p> <p>Also, while certain aspects of having multiple civil codes are clearly harmful to women and minors, its very important overall to protect minority rights and preserve secularism. It gives Muslims an important sense of identity and greater ownership in the Indian nation.</p> <p>BTW, Arvind Lavakare is an absolute Hindutva note, so be wary when you read his writing, as Aninda suggests.</p> <p>Hari</p> Jane:

I’m not sure I agree with you. I find that political civil society is mich stornger in “poor” countries like India than it is here in the U.S. If you asked the average man on the street in India who their MLA and MP were and what they’ve done, you would get a pretty decent answer. I don’t think that’s true here at all. The masses in India have consistently voted out people and governments they felt to be inadequate; I’ve seen very few “Strom Thurmonds” in the Lok Sabha.

Also, while certain aspects of having multiple civil codes are clearly harmful to women and minors, its very important overall to protect minority rights and preserve secularism. It gives Muslims an important sense of identity and greater ownership in the Indian nation.

BTW, Arvind Lavakare is an absolute Hindutva note, so be wary when you read his writing, as Aninda suggests.

Hari

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By: Kali http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/27/marital_advice_1/comment-page-1/#comment-52450 Kali Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:53:40 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3206#comment-52450 <p>I don't see why the woman is being painted as stupid by some here. For goodness sake she shared it with her <i>close</i> friends - since when is that a crime or wrong?</p> <p>I'm sure at some point we've all confided something in friends or 'friends' and then wished to God we hadn't. Maybe she feels like that now.</p> I don’t see why the woman is being painted as stupid by some here. For goodness sake she shared it with her close friends – since when is that a crime or wrong?

I’m sure at some point we’ve all confided something in friends or ‘friends’ and then wished to God we hadn’t. Maybe she feels like that now.

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By: Madurai Vivekan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/27/marital_advice_1/comment-page-1/#comment-52386 Madurai Vivekan Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:46:49 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3206#comment-52386 <p>Hi folks,</p> <p>I haven't had time to read all the comments in this, so I'm sorry if I'm repeating. It seems that the guy uttered the magic words in his sleep after the couple fought. The woman then spoke about it with her close friends (I would imagine as a "WTF?" story) and from there it got around.</p> <blockquote>While the couple, who have three children, refused to obey the order since there was no discord between them, the community leaders are adamant that they must separate or face “social boycott”. Aftab Ansari and Sohela have been married for the past 11 years. However, on the night of December 20 last year, Aftab allegedly uttered ‘talaq’ three times in his sleep after a tiff with his wife. The matter came to light when Sohela discussed it with her close friends and soon it reached the ears of the Muslim leaders. [<a href="http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/mar272006/national1915442006326.asp">Link</a>]</blockquote> Hi folks,

I haven’t had time to read all the comments in this, so I’m sorry if I’m repeating. It seems that the guy uttered the magic words in his sleep after the couple fought. The woman then spoke about it with her close friends (I would imagine as a “WTF?” story) and from there it got around.

While the couple, who have three children, refused to obey the order since there was no discord between them, the community leaders are adamant that they must separate or face “social boycott”. Aftab Ansari and Sohela have been married for the past 11 years. However, on the night of December 20 last year, Aftab allegedly uttered ‘talaq’ three times in his sleep after a tiff with his wife. The matter came to light when Sohela discussed it with her close friends and soon it reached the ears of the Muslim leaders. [Link]
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By: aparna http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/27/marital_advice_1/comment-page-1/#comment-52315 aparna Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:23:41 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3206#comment-52315 <p>My suggestion that the girl just wanted out so she could play the field isn't winning any points with the men in this conversation...Ladies?</p> My suggestion that the girl just wanted out so she could play the field isn’t winning any points with the men in this conversation…Ladies?

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By: Amitabh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/27/marital_advice_1/comment-page-1/#comment-52298 Amitabh Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:02:19 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3206#comment-52298 <p>Andrew Jackson said " Unless ofcourse she is a devout muslim who actually feared the implications of those words, and the consequences of not following the custom that she seeked religious guidance".</p> <p>I agree with you, that could very well be the case.</p> Andrew Jackson said ” Unless ofcourse she is a devout muslim who actually feared the implications of those words, and the consequences of not following the custom that she seeked religious guidance”.

I agree with you, that could very well be the case.

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By: Andrew Jackson http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/27/marital_advice_1/comment-page-1/#comment-52297 Andrew Jackson Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:55:23 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3206#comment-52297 <p>Now im no expert on muslim law, but I thought you had to be in full control of your faculties when you uttered those words, and somehow saying it in your sleep doesnt really seem to count. Also I thought a witness was necessary in order to corroborate that the divorce actually occured. And if that is indeed the case, then who ever told them that the divorce is legal under muslim law is retarded.</p> <p>Also Janeofalltrades it seems kind of silly to blame the guy in this case. If he did utter those words in his sleep, obviously it must have been the wife who proceeded to tell everyone about it. Which does make one wonder... I mean why can't women be as cold and calculating as men are always preceived to be? I think there is a legitemate question as to why this whole thing was brought into public anway. Unless ofcourse she is a devout muslim who actually feared the implications of those words, and the consequences of not following the custom that she seeked religious guidance.</p> Now im no expert on muslim law, but I thought you had to be in full control of your faculties when you uttered those words, and somehow saying it in your sleep doesnt really seem to count. Also I thought a witness was necessary in order to corroborate that the divorce actually occured. And if that is indeed the case, then who ever told them that the divorce is legal under muslim law is retarded.

Also Janeofalltrades it seems kind of silly to blame the guy in this case. If he did utter those words in his sleep, obviously it must have been the wife who proceeded to tell everyone about it. Which does make one wonder… I mean why can’t women be as cold and calculating as men are always preceived to be? I think there is a legitemate question as to why this whole thing was brought into public anway. Unless ofcourse she is a devout muslim who actually feared the implications of those words, and the consequences of not following the custom that she seeked religious guidance.

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