So you are saying that all those Sikhs who visit Hindu temples or Muslim shrines, observe some Hindu practices are not “real” Sikhs and are distorting true Sikh teachings? And is the entertainment industry distorting it if they are merely reflecting the reality of what some Sikhs in India do? It’s not as if those characters don’t exist. Maybe some Sikhs would disagree with you that they are distorting the teachings? Sikhs aren’t exactly quiet when it comes to challenging portrayals of their religion or what they see as discrimination example: French turban controversy, kirpan controversy, Sunny Deol movie (including some violent protests), UK play. haven’t heard of any major Sikh complaints in India about their portrayal in these soaps in regard to Hindu practices. Anyways, next time i meet a Sikh in a Hindu temple i will ask them if they think they are distorting Sikh religious principles.

You should visit US, and we’ll check out some “bo*****” in Eugene and Portland. We have to be careful in SF though but Saheli will provide inside tips about the flavor of the clubs – unless………..

I know you are a liberal guy.

One of the reasons I left India, I could not stand soap operas there – you know Mahabarta and Ramayana. If I ever see an American soap opera at the dentist office, I start gagging before I am on the chair.

All of them cater to no demoninator – not even the lowest demoninator.

If I am ever in UK, I’ll look you up. I am flying to India and Pakistan in few months but these days, one uses those direct flights – from United and American with no lay over.

I don’t watch Indian soap operas. I know of the one I mentioned because my parents have access to the various Indian satellite channels at their house, and I’ve come across that programme and indeed a number of other shows depicting supposedly-devout Sikhs participating in religious practices divergent from core Sikh tenets, if I happen to be in the same room when one of these shows is on. You and I know may know that shows like The Bold & the Beautiful and Kesar are unrealistic portrayals of the environments they focus on, but in the case of the latter, there are people who do not know this, especially those who have little contact with real-life Sikhs and have next to no knowledge of the religion or its history, apart from possessing a vague awareness of the name of Guru Nanak (and even he hasn’t been left alone by Star Plus, God help us).

As you probably know from my various postings here on SM and especially from my 55s (and occasional tongue-in-cheek flirting with some other female SM participants), I am not exactly narrow-minded and neither am I some kind of stern “fundie”. I have said repeatedly that I am an above-average-Westernised Indian guy who tries to be a decent individual in his daily life but makes no grand claims to piety. I come to SM to broaden my mind by chatting with desis thousands of miles away, most of whom I have found to be extremely intelligent, well-informed and good-natured people (including you, as I have said on a number of previous occasions), along with engaging in some light-hearted banter as a “time-pass” and, hopefully, make some kind of positive contribution from the perspective of other participants too. I deliberately refrained from commenting too much on this thread regarding the core issue of the kirpan because, along with feeling that the major points had already been made by other Sikhs here (and I had also already posted a couple of thoughts on the parallel Pickled Politics discussion whose URL I posted here earlier), I did not want to get dragged into yet another of “those” arguments on SM which had become depressingly familiar to me since Diwali last year. As you rightly said yourself, it’s best to keep one’s participation on SM light-hearted and reasonably fun.

My thoughts regarding the depiction of Sikh religious practices in the Indian media — an irritant even to many highly liberal Sikhs here in the West, never mind about those who take their day-to-day practices of the faith far more seriously — was intended as a brief response to the commenter who stated that there is no pressure on Sikh identity whatsoever back in India. My following posts were replies to Fusion as a courtesy in response to his quick query, followed by Amitabh as I am familiar with him from the Sikhnet discussion forum and we have had friendly talks about numerous topics there already. In fact, in terms of some aspects of his personality he has more in common with you then you may realise. I mean this as a compliment.

As mentioned during the time I dropped the “Singh” from my SM handle, I’m just a normal guy living a normal semi-Westernised life in London, and have no desire or authority to be regarded as an example of “ideal” Sikh piety in the mould of someone who really is dedicated to walking in the path of Guru Nanak and Guru Gobind Singh (and the other 8 Gurus in-between). However, as far as I am concerned, Sikh religious principles are sacred and should not be distorted or deliberately misrepresented, especially in the entertainment industry.

It’s obvious that Sikhs in India grow up surrounded by Hinduism and Hindu practices/culture. For example they all know Ramayan/Mahabharat, etc. They do follow more of a composite culture. In Canada, Sikhs had the freedom to raise their kids without Hindu touches. The Canadian-born generation grows up in a non-Hindu environment; their cultural inputs are either Canadian/Western on one hand, or Sikh on the other (due to Bollywood they do get exposed to some Hindu material). So to those kids, Hindu idols, Hindu epics, Hindu temples, etc. are largely foreign. That being said, I do know some Sikh people (in the UK) who have Hindu pictures in their home, and many Sikh families do not cook beef at home even in Canada. I guess my point is, it’s natural that Sikh kids raised in Canada would have a very different orientation in regards to religion/culture than those raised in India.

Well they are free to defend their idols, the issue is not when some one says my way is better/correct. The issue is when they deny that their faith has a large number of adherents who follow it differently and this denial is something i see more in canada then india(where the diversity in culture is more obvious). I think its a leftover effect from the khalistani era. They created a more fundamental(ie homogenous) view and myth was created, even though the fight is over the effect is till there. from what i have read in some websites UK seems more like canada.

Guru Gobind Singh had 3 wives all this is doccumented and is disccussed (though not fully accepted) in punjab but not in canada. You can discuss this topic more freely in punjab than in canada. You would be threatened with voilence for discussing this over there. The %age of Sikhs in india who are liberal(as in open to discussing issues like the above mentioned case) is higher when compared to those from canada. US sikhs are a mixed bunch but i suspect that they have more in common with canadian attitudes than the punjabi attitude.

My first cousin is married to a Sikh in US of A. He met her in US of A. She practises in lot of beliefs you told a Sikhi would never do in US of A.

With due respect, you should stop watching soap operas and breath some fresh air. If you are in Oregon ever, I’ll take you some funky clubs. Cultural discourse using soap opera is like discussing US of A using “Bold and Beautiful”.

I spend 4-6months/year in india my home is in chandigarh and it would be an eye opener for you to come and see the diversity in sikhs in punjab itself.

When was the last time you visited India? I attended a Kumbh Mela a few years ago and there were a MAD number of Sikhs acting like Hindus, going from shrine to shrine, and worshipping with a great deal of fervency. I am not sure what “sect” they belonged to.