Comments on: Tamil Tigers extorting money from aunties in Toronto http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/04/tigers_extort_m/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Xfile http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/04/tigers_extort_m/comment-page-2/#comment-55118 Xfile Thu, 13 Apr 2006 21:33:54 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3084#comment-55118 <p>Canada has officially recognized the LTTE as a terrorist organization. <a href="http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200604111240.htm">See here</a></p> Canada has officially recognized the LTTE as a terrorist organization. See here

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By: Varikkuthirai http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/04/tigers_extort_m/comment-page-2/#comment-51144 Varikkuthirai Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:37:30 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3084#comment-51144 <p>Not long ago, the Tamils of Sri Lanka were considered one of the meekest people on earth. Very religious and hardworking lot. The Sinhalse extremists brutalized them repeatedly in 1956, 1958, 1961, 1977 and in 1983 in race riots. For example, in 1983, several political prisoners who were at the Welikade prison, had their eyes plucked out by the rioters. More than 100,000 Tamils have been killed and to this day not a single Sinhala pepetrator was ever brought to justice. That is when Tamils became the leading suicide warriers in the world. The sheer brutality they faced made these meek folks into what they are now.</p> Not long ago, the Tamils of Sri Lanka were considered one of the meekest people on earth. Very religious and hardworking lot. The Sinhalse extremists brutalized them repeatedly in 1956, 1958, 1961, 1977 and in 1983 in race riots. For example, in 1983, several political prisoners who were at the Welikade prison, had their eyes plucked out by the rioters. More than 100,000 Tamils have been killed and to this day not a single Sinhala pepetrator was ever brought to justice. That is when Tamils became the leading suicide warriers in the world. The sheer brutality they faced made these meek folks into what they are now.

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By: dhaavak http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/04/tigers_extort_m/comment-page-2/#comment-50457 dhaavak Thu, 16 Mar 2006 04:42:22 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3084#comment-50457 <p>My word... Ikram, ...!! <br> A generation apart - but the issues and the need for refuge are the same... why this is home<br> Thanks for sharing. I'll look the album up this weekend.</p> My word… Ikram, …!!
A generation apart – but the issues and the need for refuge are the same… why this is home
Thanks for sharing. I’ll look the album up this weekend.

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By: Ikram http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/04/tigers_extort_m/comment-page-2/#comment-50451 Ikram Thu, 16 Mar 2006 03:44:33 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3084#comment-50451 <p>Dhavaak -- I think the words you're looking for were sung by <a href="http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:uaK0HLVqK54J:lyrics.rare-lyrics.com/S/Stan-Rogers/The-House-Of-Orange.html+stan+rogers+boyne&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=3">Stan Rogers two decades ago</a>. The only political song this Canadian treasure ever wrote. It was the last song on his last album before he died. This song has always given me chills. True for Ireland, True for Pakistan, True for Sri Lanka.</p> <p>I took back my hand and I showed him the door No dollar of mine would I part with this day For fueling the engines of bloody cruel war In my forefather's land far away.</p> <p>....</p> <p>Their sons have no politics. None call recall Allegiance from long generations before. O'this or O'that name just can't mean a thing Or be cause enough for to war. And meanwhile my babies are safe in their home, Unlike their pale cousins who shiver and cry While kneecappers nail their poor Dads to the floor And teach them to hate and to die.</p> <p>....</p> <p>Now they cry out for money and wail at the door But Home Rule or Republic, 'tis all of it shame; And a curse for us here who want nothing of war. We're kindred in nothing but name. All rights and all wrongs have long since blown away, For causes are ashes where children lie slain. Yet the damned U.D.I and the cruel I.R.A. Will tomorrow go murdering again. But no penny of mine will I add to the fray. "Remember the Boyne!" they will cry out in vain, For I've given my heart to the place I was born And forgiven the whole House of Orange King Billy and the whole House of Orange.</p> Dhavaak — I think the words you’re looking for were sung by Stan Rogers two decades ago. The only political song this Canadian treasure ever wrote. It was the last song on his last album before he died. This song has always given me chills. True for Ireland, True for Pakistan, True for Sri Lanka.

I took back my hand and I showed him the door No dollar of mine would I part with this day For fueling the engines of bloody cruel war In my forefather’s land far away.

….

Their sons have no politics. None call recall Allegiance from long generations before. O’this or O’that name just can’t mean a thing Or be cause enough for to war. And meanwhile my babies are safe in their home, Unlike their pale cousins who shiver and cry While kneecappers nail their poor Dads to the floor And teach them to hate and to die.

….

Now they cry out for money and wail at the door But Home Rule or Republic, ’tis all of it shame; And a curse for us here who want nothing of war. We’re kindred in nothing but name. All rights and all wrongs have long since blown away, For causes are ashes where children lie slain. Yet the damned U.D.I and the cruel I.R.A. Will tomorrow go murdering again. But no penny of mine will I add to the fray. “Remember the Boyne!” they will cry out in vain, For I’ve given my heart to the place I was born And forgiven the whole House of Orange King Billy and the whole House of Orange.

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By: dhaavak http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/04/tigers_extort_m/comment-page-2/#comment-50446 dhaavak Thu, 16 Mar 2006 02:58:14 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3084#comment-50446 <p>Dear Parthi:<br> Thank you for your well-thought response to my post.<br> I can not argue with you because the level at which you have experienced this issue will never be known to me. This is not a topic in which anyone but those who have been touched by the war can have moral clarity. <br> Ultimately, my guidelines are ultimately set by the governmental bodies who, I presume, have a broader perspective on things. This does not necessarily make them right, but I do not have the facts nor the moral authority to challenge them. <br> My point is that the LTTE has been designated a terrorist organization by the European Union and the United States. I believe the CSIS has recommended that Canada follow suit but the judgement has been deferred. I can not be drawn into an argument whether this is correct or not. I do not have the legal authority to draw a judgement that would apply to Canada. I will back your right to dissent and your right to get the LTTE de-listed as a terrorist organization. Till that happens, the organization is tainted to me. Supporting this organization by providing them money makes us participants in terrorism. <br> Regards,</p> Dear Parthi:
Thank you for your well-thought response to my post.
I can not argue with you because the level at which you have experienced this issue will never be known to me. This is not a topic in which anyone but those who have been touched by the war can have moral clarity.
Ultimately, my guidelines are ultimately set by the governmental bodies who, I presume, have a broader perspective on things. This does not necessarily make them right, but I do not have the facts nor the moral authority to challenge them.
My point is that the LTTE has been designated a terrorist organization by the European Union and the United States. I believe the CSIS has recommended that Canada follow suit but the judgement has been deferred. I can not be drawn into an argument whether this is correct or not. I do not have the legal authority to draw a judgement that would apply to Canada. I will back your right to dissent and your right to get the LTTE de-listed as a terrorist organization. Till that happens, the organization is tainted to me. Supporting this organization by providing them money makes us participants in terrorism.
Regards,

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By: Parthi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/04/tigers_extort_m/comment-page-2/#comment-50403 Parthi Wed, 15 Mar 2006 22:38:56 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3084#comment-50403 <p>dhavak, i understand, respect, and disagree with your comments.</p> <p>it is NOT easy for one NOT to consciously leave their homeland's problems and live consciously in a new land. can a child forget it's mother? by bringing "wars on this soil", i am unsure to the context you are referring with regards to the LTTE. to this day, there has not been any arrests or convictions on Canadian soil or by any Canadian agency with regards to the LTTE and how they operate in Canada.</p> <p>no one in our community is taught to hate the Singhalese or anything of that nature. let it be known, this conflict is not between the Tamils and Singhalese, but rather the Tamils and the Sri Lankan Government.</p> <p>it is funny you make that last comment. in light of the tsunami, it has been widely documented and reported that it was the Tigers that attended to the plight of the Tamil people when the disaster struck, with no government aid or help. moreover, i am not sure if you are aware of the PTOMS, but it was the tsunami aid sharing deal that was negiotiated between the LTTE and the GoSL. however, it was stuck down by the Supreme Court of Sri Lanka because it "violated" Sri Lankan sovereignty, thus stranding billions of dollars of int'l aid in limbo. TRUST ME, us Tamils know who will be there when our houses burn down. there is no JUSTICE, it's JUST US.</p> dhavak, i understand, respect, and disagree with your comments.

it is NOT easy for one NOT to consciously leave their homeland’s problems and live consciously in a new land. can a child forget it’s mother? by bringing “wars on this soil”, i am unsure to the context you are referring with regards to the LTTE. to this day, there has not been any arrests or convictions on Canadian soil or by any Canadian agency with regards to the LTTE and how they operate in Canada.

no one in our community is taught to hate the Singhalese or anything of that nature. let it be known, this conflict is not between the Tamils and Singhalese, but rather the Tamils and the Sri Lankan Government.

it is funny you make that last comment. in light of the tsunami, it has been widely documented and reported that it was the Tigers that attended to the plight of the Tamil people when the disaster struck, with no government aid or help. moreover, i am not sure if you are aware of the PTOMS, but it was the tsunami aid sharing deal that was negiotiated between the LTTE and the GoSL. however, it was stuck down by the Supreme Court of Sri Lanka because it “violated” Sri Lankan sovereignty, thus stranding billions of dollars of int’l aid in limbo. TRUST ME, us Tamils know who will be there when our houses burn down. there is no JUSTICE, it’s JUST US.

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By: dhavak http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/04/tigers_extort_m/comment-page-2/#comment-50392 dhavak Wed, 15 Mar 2006 21:32:43 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3084#comment-50392 <p>Hello. <br /> This is a difficult subject to broach in a broad audience. my frame of context is set through some tenets that i believe give good guidance to people such as i whose history straddles several continents. i will try to articulate them here<br /> - support your kin but do not bring your native land's wars on this soil. <br /> - teach your kids your history, but do not teach them hate of those they will never know or meet. <br /> - support your community but recognize and reconcile your sense of community with who will be at hand if your house burns down today. <br /> To me the support of LTTE runs counter to these. It affects me if these wars ever come to canada. I can not support that.</p> Hello.
This is a difficult subject to broach in a broad audience. my frame of context is set through some tenets that i believe give good guidance to people such as i whose history straddles several continents. i will try to articulate them here
- support your kin but do not bring your native land’s wars on this soil.
- teach your kids your history, but do not teach them hate of those they will never know or meet.
- support your community but recognize and reconcile your sense of community with who will be at hand if your house burns down today.
To me the support of LTTE runs counter to these. It affects me if these wars ever come to canada. I can not support that.

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By: ramanan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/04/tigers_extort_m/comment-page-2/#comment-50376 ramanan Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:35:41 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3084#comment-50376 <p>Eddie, the majority of Tamils are Hindu, but I am pretty sure the LTTE are a secular group.. There are probably a fair number of Christians in the LTTE.</p> <blockquote>When a group tries to intimidate witnesses, you have to go to second-tier sources because people die when they speak on the record.</blockquote> <p>Do you know how many Tamil people have died in Toronto for speaking their mind? I think the number is 0. I don't have a source mind you, but something like that would probably make the news.</p> <p>I do not doubt that there are people being taken advantage of, and that is wrong, and that should be stopped. But, if you seriously think the Tamil community lives in fear here in Scarborough of LTTE reprisals you are probably mistaken. The diaspora probably support the LTTE even more than those living in North and the East of Sri Lanka since the actions of the LTTE don't effect them in the least.</p> <p>I don't think you'll ever find reprisals happening in Toronto. The last time Tamil streets gangs started to act up the Toronto police arrested everyone and sent them home. People with tenuous connections to the country are probably less inclined to rock the boat.</p> <blockquote>Third, Sri Lanka, India and the U.S. don't use child soldiers.</blockquote> <p>The US army actively tries to recruit underage children, even if those children don't get to serve till they are of age. As far as I can tell, US Army recruiters are pretty predatory. I imagine this is also the case in India and Sri Lanka, though I am unsure. (Stories of the LTTE kidnapping children are obviously worse, but it's all a suck in the end. The fact that there is no full blown fighting in Sri Lanka makes the US actions worse in my opinion, since shipping 18 year olds to Iraq seems more cruel.)</p> <blockquote>Fifth, the U.S. doesn't specifically target civilians.</blockquote> <p>Are you shitting me?</p> <blockquote>India has. Sri Lanka has, but in much lower numbers than the LTTE. I disavow this tactic entirely.</blockquote> <p>Do you have numbers to back this up. I'm going to guess you are talking out of your ass. You're just asking for someone to jump in and start listing off all the bad things both groups have done.</p> <p>The LTTE kill all sorts of people. They are a paramilitary organization. That is what they do. The fact that it's pretty easy to make the case that either the Indian government and the Sri Lankan governemnt has been just as vicious as the LTTE within Sri Lanka is disappointing.</p> <p>And though Parthi is a bit strong in his defence of the LTTE, he is correct in pointing out that Manish tries a bit too hard to paint things in a simple manner.</p> <p>At the end of the day, if you are going to let Singhala Nationalists speak at the diplomacy table, it seems hypocritical to ask the LTTE to stay home.</p> Eddie, the majority of Tamils are Hindu, but I am pretty sure the LTTE are a secular group.. There are probably a fair number of Christians in the LTTE.

When a group tries to intimidate witnesses, you have to go to second-tier sources because people die when they speak on the record.

Do you know how many Tamil people have died in Toronto for speaking their mind? I think the number is 0. I don’t have a source mind you, but something like that would probably make the news.

I do not doubt that there are people being taken advantage of, and that is wrong, and that should be stopped. But, if you seriously think the Tamil community lives in fear here in Scarborough of LTTE reprisals you are probably mistaken. The diaspora probably support the LTTE even more than those living in North and the East of Sri Lanka since the actions of the LTTE don’t effect them in the least.

I don’t think you’ll ever find reprisals happening in Toronto. The last time Tamil streets gangs started to act up the Toronto police arrested everyone and sent them home. People with tenuous connections to the country are probably less inclined to rock the boat.

Third, Sri Lanka, India and the U.S. don’t use child soldiers.

The US army actively tries to recruit underage children, even if those children don’t get to serve till they are of age. As far as I can tell, US Army recruiters are pretty predatory. I imagine this is also the case in India and Sri Lanka, though I am unsure. (Stories of the LTTE kidnapping children are obviously worse, but it’s all a suck in the end. The fact that there is no full blown fighting in Sri Lanka makes the US actions worse in my opinion, since shipping 18 year olds to Iraq seems more cruel.)

Fifth, the U.S. doesn’t specifically target civilians.

Are you shitting me?

India has. Sri Lanka has, but in much lower numbers than the LTTE. I disavow this tactic entirely.

Do you have numbers to back this up. I’m going to guess you are talking out of your ass. You’re just asking for someone to jump in and start listing off all the bad things both groups have done.

The LTTE kill all sorts of people. They are a paramilitary organization. That is what they do. The fact that it’s pretty easy to make the case that either the Indian government and the Sri Lankan governemnt has been just as vicious as the LTTE within Sri Lanka is disappointing.

And though Parthi is a bit strong in his defence of the LTTE, he is correct in pointing out that Manish tries a bit too hard to paint things in a simple manner.

At the end of the day, if you are going to let Singhala Nationalists speak at the diplomacy table, it seems hypocritical to ask the LTTE to stay home.

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By: Parthi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/04/tigers_extort_m/comment-page-2/#comment-50371 Parthi Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:25:35 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3084#comment-50371 <p>AMFD, most definitely, my argument on this site is that information presented about the LTTE and the conflict in Sri Lanka, and the manner it is, is ridiculously tilted against the LTTE.</p> <p>Sepia Mutiny goes out of it's way to cover articles that discredit and antagonize the LTTE, yet fail to produce even one positive article/essay about them, even when it's done by TIME magazine or the BBC. and their have been quite a few in the recent months, mostly pieces on the efficieny and strength of the Tamil Eelam state and administration. however, my suspicions are that this site's editors prefer such material is not brought to light, as it will shed credibility upon the Tigers. they would rather keep the Tigers pigeonholed as a terrorist entity.</p> AMFD, most definitely, my argument on this site is that information presented about the LTTE and the conflict in Sri Lanka, and the manner it is, is ridiculously tilted against the LTTE.

Sepia Mutiny goes out of it’s way to cover articles that discredit and antagonize the LTTE, yet fail to produce even one positive article/essay about them, even when it’s done by TIME magazine or the BBC. and their have been quite a few in the recent months, mostly pieces on the efficieny and strength of the Tamil Eelam state and administration. however, my suspicions are that this site’s editors prefer such material is not brought to light, as it will shed credibility upon the Tigers. they would rather keep the Tigers pigeonholed as a terrorist entity.

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By: Parthi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/03/04/tigers_extort_m/comment-page-2/#comment-50370 Parthi Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:18:51 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3084#comment-50370 <p>manish, your ignorance appalls me. for you to state the Sri Lankan Government has killed fewer civilians than the LTTE betrays your tremendous lack of understanding and knowledge of the Sri Lankan conflict. the GoSL has killed Tamil Civilians in the thousands, whereas LTTE civilian death are in the hundreds. please get your information right.</p> <p>suicide bombing and killing innocent civilians is more or less the same thing.</p> <p>sri lankan government may not vigourously recruit children, though they do that in poor singhala villages to kids as young as 14. their preference is to whore their children out. anyone who knows sri lanka is aware that South Sri Lanka has a booming child prostitution, pornography, exploitation trade.</p> <p>"India and the U.S. don't specifically target civilians" - hahahah, that's killer material you got there manish. heck, it is heavily documented the amount of targeted civilian deaths CAUSED BY THE INDIAN ARMY upon the Tamil civilian populations during the IPKF time of 87-90, read The Broken Palmyra (a book much paraded by anti-LTTE critics) for documentation. there's a reason rajiv got what he got. it's widely understood and known, killing rajiv was not a political aim of the LTTE, but rather an act of revenge, for the gross amount of human rights violations and terrorism the Indian Army committed upon the Tamil civilian populations.</p> <p>so if we're gonna play by your rules and definitions: the LTTE is terrorist, the Government of Sri Lanka is terrorist, the Government of India is terrorist, the Government of the United States is terrorist.</p> <p>which, ultimately, brings us to my contention, that you and your site unfairly and unduly target the LTTE, despite the flagrant acts of terrorism and human rights violations committed by the 3 other stated parties.</p> <p>then again, this blatant whitewashing of the sins of state actors and highlighting of the LTTE acts will continue, and only reinforce my suspicions of your vigilance on the LTTE is deeply rooted in your anger over Rajiv's death and India's Vietnam.</p> manish, your ignorance appalls me. for you to state the Sri Lankan Government has killed fewer civilians than the LTTE betrays your tremendous lack of understanding and knowledge of the Sri Lankan conflict. the GoSL has killed Tamil Civilians in the thousands, whereas LTTE civilian death are in the hundreds. please get your information right.

suicide bombing and killing innocent civilians is more or less the same thing.

sri lankan government may not vigourously recruit children, though they do that in poor singhala villages to kids as young as 14. their preference is to whore their children out. anyone who knows sri lanka is aware that South Sri Lanka has a booming child prostitution, pornography, exploitation trade.

“India and the U.S. don’t specifically target civilians” – hahahah, that’s killer material you got there manish. heck, it is heavily documented the amount of targeted civilian deaths CAUSED BY THE INDIAN ARMY upon the Tamil civilian populations during the IPKF time of 87-90, read The Broken Palmyra (a book much paraded by anti-LTTE critics) for documentation. there’s a reason rajiv got what he got. it’s widely understood and known, killing rajiv was not a political aim of the LTTE, but rather an act of revenge, for the gross amount of human rights violations and terrorism the Indian Army committed upon the Tamil civilian populations.

so if we’re gonna play by your rules and definitions: the LTTE is terrorist, the Government of Sri Lanka is terrorist, the Government of India is terrorist, the Government of the United States is terrorist.

which, ultimately, brings us to my contention, that you and your site unfairly and unduly target the LTTE, despite the flagrant acts of terrorism and human rights violations committed by the 3 other stated parties.

then again, this blatant whitewashing of the sins of state actors and highlighting of the LTTE acts will continue, and only reinforce my suspicions of your vigilance on the LTTE is deeply rooted in your anger over Rajiv’s death and India’s Vietnam.

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