Comments on: But can you PROVE you aren’t into chemical weapons? http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/02/23/but_can_you_pro/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Rahul http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/02/23/but_can_you_pro/comment-page-1/#comment-48084 Rahul Sun, 26 Feb 2006 04:19:01 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3049#comment-48084 <p>Ok then you are not an Indian, so thats fine. My comment was for the <b>"Indians"</b></p> Ok then you are not an Indian, so thats fine. My comment was for the “Indians”

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By: bitewords http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/02/23/but_can_you_pro/comment-page-1/#comment-48083 bitewords Sun, 26 Feb 2006 03:34:43 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3049#comment-48083 <p>To Sam: especially comment #10 Surprising you assume Prof. Mehta was wrong in taking offense at this. You wouldnt make the assumption if you ever have visited the consulate in Chennai. Even worse, in China. The interviewers---not all, but a significant <em>majority</em> there are condescending, bordering on being downright racist with people who may not speak English the way the interviewer wants. You may think being an US citizen allows you to push people around, but few others around the world sympathize with your attitude here.</p> <p>You are right in that the interviewer probably got pushed into this post. But of course since (s)he is in India, (s)he thinks (s)he is better than anyone who comes for a visa. No matter how accomplished the applicant is. Cut them some slack? Bah. If they cant be courteous they better be doing something else. I know several friends of mine who have written complaints to embassies based on how their parents/siblings were treated, and they are all not just from India. The common thread here is that all of them were in "third world countries".</p> <p>This also has nothing to do with <em>rejecting</em> the visas---believe me, fewer people care about the denial than you would like to imagine. It is the demeaning manner in which it is done. Even if Prof. Mehta took offense at some dolt questioning his research, I would think it is justified. Since when did being a US consular employee give you competance to question scientific work---even veteren professors are very careful when commenting on the work of a colleague.</p> <p>On a lighter note, most Indians at least have one consolation---no matter how badly you are treated by consulates, you can rest assured the Indian consulate anywhere is avenging you :).</p> To Sam: especially comment #10 Surprising you assume Prof. Mehta was wrong in taking offense at this. You wouldnt make the assumption if you ever have visited the consulate in Chennai. Even worse, in China. The interviewers—not all, but a significant majority there are condescending, bordering on being downright racist with people who may not speak English the way the interviewer wants. You may think being an US citizen allows you to push people around, but few others around the world sympathize with your attitude here.

You are right in that the interviewer probably got pushed into this post. But of course since (s)he is in India, (s)he thinks (s)he is better than anyone who comes for a visa. No matter how accomplished the applicant is. Cut them some slack? Bah. If they cant be courteous they better be doing something else. I know several friends of mine who have written complaints to embassies based on how their parents/siblings were treated, and they are all not just from India. The common thread here is that all of them were in “third world countries”.

This also has nothing to do with rejecting the visas—believe me, fewer people care about the denial than you would like to imagine. It is the demeaning manner in which it is done. Even if Prof. Mehta took offense at some dolt questioning his research, I would think it is justified. Since when did being a US consular employee give you competance to question scientific work—even veteren professors are very careful when commenting on the work of a colleague.

On a lighter note, most Indians at least have one consolation—no matter how badly you are treated by consulates, you can rest assured the Indian consulate anywhere is avenging you :) .

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By: Abhi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/02/23/but_can_you_pro/comment-page-1/#comment-48080 Abhi Sun, 26 Feb 2006 02:52:08 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3049#comment-48080 <blockquote>Indians in the US become neutral and never try to contradict or critisize Americans for there double standards. If we dont stand behind Indians who would?</blockquote> <p>Your perspective simply differs from mine. I am not an "Indian in the U.S." I am an American in the U.S. I didn't become what you describe as "neutral." I was born that way.</p> <blockquote>and never try to contradict or critisize Americans</blockquote> <p>Perhaps you missed the point of the post then? It was a post that was critical of the U.S. consulate.</p> Indians in the US become neutral and never try to contradict or critisize Americans for there double standards. If we dont stand behind Indians who would?

Your perspective simply differs from mine. I am not an “Indian in the U.S.” I am an American in the U.S. I didn’t become what you describe as “neutral.” I was born that way.

and never try to contradict or critisize Americans

Perhaps you missed the point of the post then? It was a post that was critical of the U.S. consulate.

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By: Rahul http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/02/23/but_can_you_pro/comment-page-1/#comment-48079 Rahul Sun, 26 Feb 2006 02:11:24 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3049#comment-48079 <p>Abhi <i>I personally could care less that we have offened Mr. Mehta because he is Indian. If he was Sri Lankan would have been just as upset by the American behavior.</i></p> <p>As an Indian I do feel offended and why shouldnt I? Am not that broad minded that would take up cudgles for the world but yes if it concerns India will do what ever is possible (in this case not much though :)). Indians in the US become neutral and never try to contradict or critisize Americans for there double standards. If we dont stand behind Indians who would?</p> Abhi I personally could care less that we have offened Mr. Mehta because he is Indian. If he was Sri Lankan would have been just as upset by the American behavior.

As an Indian I do feel offended and why shouldnt I? Am not that broad minded that would take up cudgles for the world but yes if it concerns India will do what ever is possible (in this case not much though :) ). Indians in the US become neutral and never try to contradict or critisize Americans for there double standards. If we dont stand behind Indians who would?

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By: Xfile http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/02/23/but_can_you_pro/comment-page-1/#comment-48018 Xfile Fri, 24 Feb 2006 23:43:03 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3049#comment-48018 <blockquote>State is claiming that they did not reject him at all, they were just asking for more information. I believe you, but I think that State is trying to spin things in other ways ... </blockquote> <p>They are indulging in word play in the article. The only procedure to ask for more information from visa applicants (for most visa types, afaik) is to reject them THAT time and ask to reapply with those additional docs/ info (they will however CLEARLY state what was missing this time and it is upto you to make sure u got that for next time); no concept of deferring application exists. This is true even for visas which you apply by drop-box (ie not in person). All this is stated in no uncertain terms on web sites of US conslates in India.</p> State is claiming that they did not reject him at all, they were just asking for more information. I believe you, but I think that State is trying to spin things in other ways …

They are indulging in word play in the article. The only procedure to ask for more information from visa applicants (for most visa types, afaik) is to reject them THAT time and ask to reapply with those additional docs/ info (they will however CLEARLY state what was missing this time and it is upto you to make sure u got that for next time); no concept of deferring application exists. This is true even for visas which you apply by drop-box (ie not in person). All this is stated in no uncertain terms on web sites of US conslates in India.

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By: Ennis http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/02/23/but_can_you_pro/comment-page-1/#comment-48014 Ennis Fri, 24 Feb 2006 23:15:02 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3049#comment-48014 <p>Xfile - you said that what the letter means is that you're rejected this time but feel free to apply again later. According to the NYT, State is claiming that they did not reject him at all, they were just asking for more information. I believe you, but I think that State is trying to spin things in other ways ...</p> Xfile – you said that what the letter means is that you’re rejected this time but feel free to apply again later. According to the NYT, State is claiming that they did not reject him at all, they were just asking for more information. I believe you, but I think that State is trying to spin things in other ways …

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By: Xfile http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/02/23/but_can_you_pro/comment-page-1/#comment-48011 Xfile Fri, 24 Feb 2006 23:04:34 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3049#comment-48011 <blockquote>The part in bold is very strange. We told you that you were rejected, but we didn't mean it? We really meant you would be rejected if you didn't give us more information? Ummmmm ... that's peculiar. Why not say, we cannot approve your application until we have more information. </blockquote> <p>What they mean is that it is rejected <u>this time</u> but he can try again - they do not defer decision based on 'not enough information'; they HAVE to decide on the spot whether to accept or reject, hence stress is placed on having ALL kinds of related documents on hand for visa applicants. That is the general procedure. But this is a special case and the professor couldnt have anticipated these complications. The statement in the news item doesnt make all this clear, though.</p> The part in bold is very strange. We told you that you were rejected, but we didn’t mean it? We really meant you would be rejected if you didn’t give us more information? Ummmmm … that’s peculiar. Why not say, we cannot approve your application until we have more information.

What they mean is that it is rejected this time but he can try again – they do not defer decision based on ‘not enough information’; they HAVE to decide on the spot whether to accept or reject, hence stress is placed on having ALL kinds of related documents on hand for visa applicants. That is the general procedure. But this is a special case and the professor couldnt have anticipated these complications. The statement in the news item doesnt make all this clear, though.

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By: nubamountain http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/02/23/but_can_you_pro/comment-page-1/#comment-48005 nubamountain Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:06:29 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3049#comment-48005 <p>Karmacola: apart from using a name that brings to mind a particularly bad Gita Mehta novel, a couple of noteworthy points regarding your email. One, your elegant and casual use of the term 'FOB' to refer to all of us desis who come to the U.S. for either work related or educational purposes. Your post brings to mind the depiction of desis from des in generally atrocious, Indian american movies such as "American desi" or "American Chai," where us 'FOB's are portrayed as slovenly, ugly, manipulative and cartoonlike geeks with flatulence problems. How do you define yourself, incidentally?</p> <p>Secondly, you are sadly mistaken about the visa handling issue despite the authority present in your post. Being a FOB (although i've studied and worked in the U.S. on and off for the last 15 years and hence might not fit the "Fresh" component of your acronym) i can assure you that Visa applications for the past few years have desis screening applications in only the first stage, where they make sure that your papers are in order. The interview conducted is always by an American, a whitie or (using your descriptive tendencies) an ABCB, CBCD, PBCD or all the other variants you would find in an American embassy overseas. The desi who has not yet boarded the boat is never in charge of the interview process -- which is essentially where the decision making component of the whole process happens.</p> Karmacola: apart from using a name that brings to mind a particularly bad Gita Mehta novel, a couple of noteworthy points regarding your email. One, your elegant and casual use of the term ‘FOB’ to refer to all of us desis who come to the U.S. for either work related or educational purposes. Your post brings to mind the depiction of desis from des in generally atrocious, Indian american movies such as “American desi” or “American Chai,” where us ‘FOB’s are portrayed as slovenly, ugly, manipulative and cartoonlike geeks with flatulence problems. How do you define yourself, incidentally?

Secondly, you are sadly mistaken about the visa handling issue despite the authority present in your post. Being a FOB (although i’ve studied and worked in the U.S. on and off for the last 15 years and hence might not fit the “Fresh” component of your acronym) i can assure you that Visa applications for the past few years have desis screening applications in only the first stage, where they make sure that your papers are in order. The interview conducted is always by an American, a whitie or (using your descriptive tendencies) an ABCB, CBCD, PBCD or all the other variants you would find in an American embassy overseas. The desi who has not yet boarded the boat is never in charge of the interview process — which is essentially where the decision making component of the whole process happens.

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By: Ennis http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/02/23/but_can_you_pro/comment-page-1/#comment-47993 Ennis Fri, 24 Feb 2006 19:06:11 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3049#comment-47993 <p>He's tought there before, he seems to know what it is :-)</p> He’s tought there before, he seems to know what it is :-)

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By: Mousepad Marauder http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2006/02/23/but_can_you_pro/comment-page-1/#comment-47992 Mousepad Marauder Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:52:56 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=3049#comment-47992 <p>In the end Mehta should thank his stars he did not end up in the hell-hole known as Gainesville :-)</p> In the end Mehta should thank his stars he did not end up in the hell-hole known as Gainesville :-)

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