Comments on: Always record phonecalls to your mom

By: Derick

Derick — Tue, 17 Jan 2006 18:41:43 +0000

alright, let’s move on. Clearly some misunderstanding here.. peace.

By: Kush Tandon

Kush Tandon — Tue, 17 Jan 2006 18:26:39 +0000

Derick, let's call peace.

Very early on I brought on the mightiness of Himalayas = more hill stations = more snooty schools. nobody caught it. Maybe, it is too much to ask.

Seriously, let's move on other topic. We are not helping each other. I love South India, in 2003 and 2004, I spend weeks in Hyderabad regarding work. Let's move on. Maybe, I am being defensive.

By: Derick

Derick — Tue, 17 Jan 2006 18:20:13 +0000

Kush, this is what i said -

I defintitely don't think you were touting an north indian better than south indian argument here

I really don't think you were getting into a "who is superior" argument here, nor am i.Nor was i accusing you of being snooty, just read my post again. So easy now. I don't see the relevance of the Himalayas being the largest mountain chain to this discussion.

By: Kush Tandon

Kush Tandon — Tue, 17 Jan 2006 18:06:28 +0000

Correction: Kerala has the highest literarcy rate in India,……………

By: Kush Tandon

Kush Tandon — Tue, 17 Jan 2006 18:04:47 +0000

Also there are numerous jesuit institutions down south...

Sure, dude. Kerala has the literarcy rate in India, and even for any developing country. Christianity in Kerala, I do not know this. The whole point was whether North India had English infrastructure or not. The presence of them in South India was never questioned.

Himalayas is the largest mountain chain on earth, so chill out. Do you really rhink I am clueless. I wasn't being snooty. How many times I have to say that?

By: Derick

Derick — Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:27:26 +0000

All the hill station you gave in South are on the Ghats. Please read my comment #. 13. In comment #.13, I talked about hill station in South being only on Ghats. Ghats are no Himalayas. At least one thing I know is geology. Traditionally, Himalayan hill stations were retreats for ruling class of India, especially Simla.

errr...ghats are no himalayas? and so? I defintitely don't think you were touting an north indian better than south indian argument here, But have you ever been to ooty, kodaikanal or near the nilgiris? Simla might have been a regular retreat for the ruling class, but so was ooty for the brits down south. They do have some snooty schools down there. Also there are numerous jesuit institutions down south...

By: Kush Tandon

Kush Tandon — Tue, 17 Jan 2006 07:40:11 +0000

It does not get any "westernized" than IIT.

I am being tongue-in-cheek, since the day a girl or guy gets admitted to an IIT, they only speak in English, they do all the American things - because they are preparting for TOEFL, and their perfect GRE score, and eventual admission. Ask DesiDudeInAsutin. It gets very hilarious. It beomes a full-time obsession. Very Andy Warholish.

DesiDudeInAustin is a fresh IIT graduate, he will tell you guys.Maybe, he should blog about "folkies" in IIT. Let him speak. If there is St. Stephen's graduate @ SM, speak out about Presidents in three countries (India, Pakistan, Tanzania) being their alum. Sense of humor @ SM, where is it gone? Sometimes, I wonder................

By: Wondering

Wondering — Tue, 17 Jan 2006 07:22:37 +0000

It does not get any "westernized" than IIT.

huh????????

By: Amitabh

Amitabh — Tue, 17 Jan 2006 05:55:26 +0000

I was just using Hindi as an example since it is my family’s language; I wasn’t implying that people from non-Hindi areas should be speaking Hindi. I am interested in the preservation of all Indian tongues. But I think what I wrote applies to all the Indian languages. I know that Punjabi is dying out slowly in urban Punjab especially among Hindus (and when spoken is quite weak in terms of accent, idioms, grammar and vocabulary as compared to hard-core village Punjabi), and as was mentioned already by others, many south Indians speak English at home. Most people from Mumbai regardless of their mother-tongue speak English at home (I’m talking only of the educated middle-class and mainly those under 35 years old or so). Many Bengalis speak English at home, and although Gujarat was slow to jump on English, I believe in Ahmedabad and big cities it’s quite fashionable to speak English. Of course I do realise that people do mix a certain amount of their mother-tongue in even when speaking English. The difference is, if they want to they can speak more or less pure English – but they would be hard-pressed to leave English out of their mother-tongue.

By: Amitabh

Amitabh — Tue, 17 Jan 2006 05:41:16 +0000

I think English-medium schooling is having a disastrous side-effect which people will only fully realise in a generation or two…the complete marginalisation of Indian tongues. In my own large extended family for example, if you look at my grandparents generation, only the men knew English, that too more as a written language than a spoken language. My grandmothers (and other female relatives of that generation) did not really know English. By my parents generation, all the people, both men and women (my parents and all their 1st/2nd cousins) had gone to English-medium schools and were equally comfortable speaking English and Hindi. In terms of reading and writing, they were better in English (my mom can barely write in Hindi although my dad was quite good at it). But the oral fluency in Hindi was 100% and Hindi was still the spoken language at home and with friends. In my generation, the English adoption was taken further…all my cousins are still fluent in Hindi, but habitually speak A LOT of English, even at home. And now the next generation, the little kids in our family, by and large all speak English most of the time! This is INDIA I’m talking about, NOT the US. The children will speak Hindi to servants, etc. or to their really elderly female relatives who don’t speak English, but generally with their peers or parents they speak English (Hinglish actually, which is not the same as Hindi). From what I understand from friends from other parts of India, this pattern has been happening to most of the languages in India i.e in urban, middle-class (or above) homes, Indian languages among the younger generation, are losing ground. And I should also point out that even when the yound kids DO speak in Hindi (or whatever Indian language) it is qualitatively very different than how their grandparents spoke it. Hindi spoken by these kids has many grammatical features which are based on English. And all this is taking place on a scale which is expanding rapidly. I don’t think it would be an exaggeration to say that a very large percentage of urban India is going to be fluent in English in two generations. If people take me up on this post I will share some more thoughts about this, I have a lot of opinions about the larger social/cultural implications of India’s headlong rush into English, but before I write all that I want to see if people are interested in discussing it.