Please note this: Rakesh Sharma signed the following:

Both of them signed the international “Manifesto against conscription and the military system” spread by the non-profit society for education “Gandhi Information Center” (Research and Education for Nonviolence) – as their corresponding members. Anand Patwardhan (- email: anandpat@vsnl.com – website: http://www.patwardhan.com -) signed this Manifesto on 31 January 2005 and added this pointed and polemic statement on 17 February 2005: “I would like to add my name to the statement against all forms of forced conscription being practiced today. There is one form of conscription that I do however advocate. That is to force all politicians (who invariably send working class and economically weaker sections into battle) to enlist themselves and conscript their near and dear ones. IÂ’m convinced that those who fought to do away with the draft in America did not envisage that they had weakened the anti-war movement by ensuring that the well-to-do would never have to fight. So we must consider that remuneration in cash and kind is just a form of forced conscription of the poor.”

As one who has no claim to being from the “elite” (as our leftist friends harangue everyone about) and as one who has had several members of his immediate family in the Armed forces, I find the above disturbing, and downright indicative of the intellectual baggage both film-makers bring towards their “cause”. One campaigns against India’s nuclear deterrent and equates it with Hindutva aka “rabid Hindu nationalism”. The other depicts India as a den of Hindutva “fascists”. Both sign off on pledges directed against India’s security establishment.

And meanwhile, both are globetrotting, and accepting sundry awards!

And note these:

Final Solution is a study of the politics of hate. Set in Gujarat, India, the film graphically documents the changing face of right-wing politics in India through a study of the 2002 genocide of Muslims in Gujarat. The film examines the aftermath of the deadly violence that followed the burning of 58 Hindus on the Sabarmati Express train at Godhra on 27 February 2002. In “reaction” to that incident, some 2,500 Muslims were brutally murdered, hundreds of women raped, and more than 200,000 families driven from their homes. Borrowing its reference from the history of Nazism, the title of the film exposes what the film director calls ‘Indian Fascism’ and seeks to remind that “those who forget history are condemned to relive it.”

What about the “fascists” who burnt the poor sods in the train? Any exposure of the dynamics of Islamic extremism in India and how it has radicalized Hindu opinion in turn? Any talk of the actual ethos of Hinduism to present a fair and balanced view?

The 2500 figure is pure agitprop widely cited and recited and now held to be a hoary truth. A Parliementary deposition held the figure to be in the approx 500 figure, with marginally more Hindus killed vs Muslims. Not to play down the barbarity of communal violence, assaults against women, destruction to property etc, but the number is yet one more instance of playing fast and loose with the relevant facts.

And to think this is fair and balanced reportage.

Regards.

The Qn was directed at you, since you have made a big brouhaha over doing “this” for India. I would give greater credence to your claims if you actually worked to address communal violence across the religious spectrum, instead of merely concentrating on one religious denomination and rather cynically if I may add, using it as a platform for bandwidth/ attention hogging and gratuitously painting India as a nation of communal fanatics, nay fascists. Or is it a question of personal glory before the real issues facing the repubic?

Those, sir, are the tactics of the Singhals and Modis and Syed Shahabuddins, dont you think.

Did you collect evidence in Gujarat? File cases against any perpetrators, even on a token basis? Wouldnt that have been a greater contribution?

My original questions were these, why the reluctance in answering them?

1. While we appreciate your enthusiasm in depicting the events of Gujarat- have you done likewise for the acts of violence in Marad, Kerala? Where hindu families were ethnically cleansed and killed? Wouldnt that be classified as fascism as well?

2. Whats the point of going across the world and getting sundry awards- what have you done within India?

So when can we expect a documentary on Islamic fascists in Marad? Or Christian fascists from the Baptist denomination responsible for quite a few religiously motivated acts of extreme violence in the NE? Do ask any folks from the Indian Army- they’d be sure to point you towards a few organizations.

And do you think Modi, Jagdish Tytler, Togadia and Sajjan Kumar should be put behind bars and barred from contesting elections and holding any office?

Irrelevant question I am afraid. However, since you did ask- I’d rather that they were all barred from contesting electorally, even if the matter was subjudice. Given the fact that there are innumerable claims and counterclaims against and for them, and their being in a position of power could affect the judicial process.

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blockquote> Also, you might be confusing me with Anand Patwardhan whose film War and Peace deals with the nuclear issue. Or is there another “diatribe” you might be referring to?

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blockquote>

Anand Patwardhans views are well known. He does appear to inhabit a parallel universe where his nations security is guaranteed by the largesse of the large hearted Pakistani Army and the Chinese Communist decision making apparatus. I was merely asking you for your opinion on this matter.

May I also suggest that you write to me directly with any queries pertinent to my work.

Time constraints prohibit me from carrying on two edifying conversations at one go, unfortunately.:-) I look forward to your reply.

Regards, Akash

After the initial 10-15 comments this has drifted into a debate between RSS-VHP-rightwing chaddiwaalas and pseudo-secular fake jholawaalas. If facts were being debated it would have been interesting, however all I could read were rhetorical arguments from both sides.

Here’s a gem.

It’s a weak “Hindu culture” that won’t hold to account its own criminals.

As far as I know the exact sequence of events in the “Sabarmati Express” killings and the Godhra carnage is still in dispute, this is after a Congress appointed Justice Banerjee report (which discredits the VHPs version). I would not believe stories made up by VHP and Bajrang Dal, but even NHRC has not been able to keep its story straight. I remember hearing an NHRC “investigator” saying on national TV that it was a Kerosene Stove that caused the fire in the train.

It would seem obvious that after a disaster like this the man-in-charge (Mr. Modi) would loose his chair, after all he was ultimately responsible for his people and he failed. This has not happened.

I was in Gujarat in December 2005 and indulged in road trip from Dahod (east most end) to Okha (west) [also went to Dwarika Dham]. It was a fascinating and an eye opening visit. In my observation the state of Gujarat is growing and getting more prosperous, common man “seems” to be happy and content. I was expecting an onslaught of hindutava in Gujarat but in my observation Indore (MP) and even Mumbai (Maharashtra) wore more saffron than Ahemdabad, Vadodara and Jamnagar combined. I met with a few businessmen (Gujjus and non-Gujjus), they all made it a point to mention “Narendra Modi” and his reputation as an incorruptible task master. “Not only Modi does not eat money”, they would say, “he would not let any of his men eat money”. They all marveled at his hard headed-ness in keeping the bureaucracy clean.

Funny thing is Modi was denied a visa to enter USA but USFDA has been frequenting Gujarat more often these days to inspect and approve the burgeoning generic-drug pharmaceutical facilities (so called “next wave” after IT). The FII and FDI have gone up and institutions are lining up to invest in Gujarat. Modi needn’t have troubled himself by applying for a US visa.

The results of ModiÂ’s adventures in Gujarat are obvious. He is politically stronger (BJP won elections in some municipal districts that were strong holds of Congress.) than before and more popular. So, jholawaals cannot simply wish him away. I was joking with some one that Cobra Post will have to catch him on camera accepting a bribe while nibbling on a T-Bone, to even shake him.

This is all what I observed. I would admit that nor did I go there to investigate Godhra neither did get a chance to speak with a Muslim citizen and get his/her perspective.

Of course. and i’m not being sarcastic. Its the same reason why i said RS’s complaint is valid and the case should be judged on the weather RS was improperly treated by the cops not his politics

MoorNam, arenÂ’t you begging the question? The question being: In your opinion, should Modi, et al, be convicted in a court of law?

But maybe you’ve answered this question, because you also seem to make the argument that “Others may have gotten away with similar crimes, so Modi should get away with it, too.” In making this (rather unprincipled) argument, you at least concede that there are indeed crimes that Modi, et al, are getting away with.

It’s a weak “Hindu culture” that won’t hold to account its own criminals.

– As an aside, thereÂ’s some indignation on this thread about comparisons of anti-Muslim violence with Nazism. It’s true that comparisons with Nazism should be handled with great care. But in this particular instance, hasnÂ’t ModiÂ’s goverrnment itself welcomed the comparison? http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/868469.cms

Are you kidding? Our beloved leader Modi, the avenger of lost honor and flag bearer of Hinduvta, cannot be put behind bars. He should be canonized and re-invited to speak at the Indian Motel Association conference.

And do you think Modi, Jagdish Tytler, Togadia and Sajjan Kumar should be put behind bars and barred from contesting elections and holding any office?

I know this was not directed towards me, but to answer your question…

Until any court in India proves the above persons guilty of any crime, these people should be free to contest elections and hold any office. Democracy does not work by kangaroo trials by self-styled intellectuals. The people of Delhi and Gujarat do not seem to have anything against Tytler or Modi – hence they voted for them repeatedly. That’s all that matters in a democracy.

If I take your argument to its logical conclusion, then most politicians in India will be guilty of something or the other. Should Karunanidhi be put behind bars and barred from elections/office because of his regular diatribe against Brahmins, including open incitement against them in the 60′s? Should Bangarappa be put behind bars and barred from elections/office because of his regular diatribe against Tamilians including open incitement against them in the 90′s? Should Patnaik be put behind bars and barred from elections/office because of his regular diatribe against Marwaris in Orissa including open incitement against them in the 90′s? Should Basu Chatterji be put behind bars and barred from elections/office because of his regular diatribe against businessmen, Marwaris and Gujaratis in Bengal? Should Laloo Yadav or Mayawati or Mulaayam be put behind bars and barred from elections/office because of their regular diatribes against upper castes, including incitement to violence?

If you or your ilk have spoken out against or made documentaries on the above people I mentioned, then I am not aware of it and would love to see any links. I won’t be holding my breath though…

M. Nam

Re your post, why don’t we start with your description of what you have done within India and for India. And do you think Modi, Jagdish Tytler, Togadia and Sajjan Kumar should be put behind bars and barred from contesting elections and holding any office?

Also, you might be confusing me with Anand Patwardhan whose film War and Peace deals with the nuclear issue. Or is there another “diatribe” you might be referring to?

May I also suggest that you write to me directly with any queries pertinent to my work.

Kind Regards Rakesh

Could you kindly answer these questions:

1. While we appreciate your enthusiasm in depicting the events of Gujarat- have you done likewise for the acts of violence in Marad, Kerala? Where hindu families were ethnically cleansed and killed? Wouldnt that be classified as fascism as well?

2. Whats the point of going across the world and getting sundry awards- what have you done within India?

3. Your diatribe against India’s nuclear weapons- any thought about China and Pakistan having nuclear weapons and Pak routinely threatening India with them?

Hinduism doesnt belong to the louts in the RSS/ VHP for sure, but nor is it yours to publicize as belonging to extremists with parallels drawn to Nazism, just to get the attention of the west.

Good link, Suhail, but did you really mean to switch sides? Hope RS reads this. He went for the Nazi slur right from starters. As for the commie thing, many of these people are self-described commies so you can’t argue with that.