Comments on: Blogging India at the Washington Post http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/10/16/blogging_india/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: RJ http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/10/16/blogging_india/comment-page-2/#comment-30661 RJ Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:31:13 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=2375#comment-30661 <p>Razib, do you think South Indian Brahmins are primarily of indigenous origin or descended from northern migrants? I remember one study showed the Iyers of TN clustering with Central Asian populations on the Y chromosome. There are also phenotypic similarities between NIBS and SIBS, but that may just be attributed to a selection for a particular phenotype that doesn't correlate with ancestry.</p> Razib, do you think South Indian Brahmins are primarily of indigenous origin or descended from northern migrants? I remember one study showed the Iyers of TN clustering with Central Asian populations on the Y chromosome. There are also phenotypic similarities between NIBS and SIBS, but that may just be attributed to a selection for a particular phenotype that doesn’t correlate with ancestry.

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By: Raju http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/10/16/blogging_india/comment-page-2/#comment-30563 Raju Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:04:59 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=2375#comment-30563 <p>if you go to NYC, SF, Chicago, or LA, the amount of people from different countries you see is very high. I can't go to dehli and have a decent chance of meeting someone from ecuador, ghana, india, china, korea, and, um, maybe ireland, all in one day without any effort, and just by walking down a street</p> <p>diversity in religion is a seperate issue though, i was just talking about ethnic diversity. and also, the willingness of people in india to go outside their group to me seems kind of low at times</p> if you go to NYC, SF, Chicago, or LA, the amount of people from different countries you see is very high. I can’t go to dehli and have a decent chance of meeting someone from ecuador, ghana, india, china, korea, and, um, maybe ireland, all in one day without any effort, and just by walking down a street

diversity in religion is a seperate issue though, i was just talking about ethnic diversity. and also, the willingness of people in india to go outside their group to me seems kind of low at times

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By: manju http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/10/16/blogging_india/comment-page-2/#comment-30562 manju Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:49:03 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=2375#comment-30562 <blockquote>In Indic culture, a woman showing her mid-riff/navel is not considered provocative or indecent. </blockquote> <p>Not entirely true. A good etiquette(atleast in South Indian society) requires men/women wearing lungi/mundu/sari above navel.</p> In Indic culture, a woman showing her mid-riff/navel is not considered provocative or indecent.

Not entirely true. A good etiquette(atleast in South Indian society) requires men/women wearing lungi/mundu/sari above navel.

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By: manju http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/10/16/blogging_india/comment-page-2/#comment-30552 manju Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:20:47 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=2375#comment-30552 <blockquote>In South India, there are no Ksatriyas (with the exception of a few from Kerala)</blockquote> <p>Manu Smriti declared that all Dravidas(don't know if that meant South Indians during Manu's period..I or II century AD) are Shudras(Originally Kshatriyas degraded to Shudra position). South Indian Brahmins never recognized any South Indian warrior or merchant families as Kshatriyas or Vaishyas respectively. Kerala royal families were matrilineal and didn't wear thread(So were Tulu royal families). However, now many South Indian communities like, Reddys, Bunts, Nairs claim themselves to be Kshatriyas. Likewise, many merchant communities declare themselves Vaishyas.</p> <p>However, wearing thread is bit more complicated in South India. I suppose Mysore royal family Aras(Uras) wear thread. So do many weaver castes of Karnataka(Devanga) and Andhra Pradesh(Padmasali). In Kerala, few artisans(sculptors) wore thread only when they engaged in some kind of sculpting activity. The goldsmiths(Vishwakarmas) wear thread. Curiously when it comes to South India many socially marginal groups of artisans(theoritically Shudras) wore thread and not socially dominant castes.</p> <p>However, there were stories where Brahmins upgraded Varna of few declared Shudras. I suppose Shivaji was declared "Maratha" during his coronation. A Nair chieftain was made king by a ritual called "Hiranya Garbha Kriya" by Namboothiris in Kerala. I couldn't get much information about Hiranya Garbha Kriya. It looks like a useful tool for caste upgradation and linguist conversion. The only other instance where I came across Hiranya Garbha Kriya was Namboothiris claim that they transformed themeselves to Malayalee Brahmins from Tulu Brahmins by undergoing Hiranya Garbha Kriya.</p> In South India, there are no Ksatriyas (with the exception of a few from Kerala)

Manu Smriti declared that all Dravidas(don’t know if that meant South Indians during Manu’s period..I or II century AD) are Shudras(Originally Kshatriyas degraded to Shudra position). South Indian Brahmins never recognized any South Indian warrior or merchant families as Kshatriyas or Vaishyas respectively. Kerala royal families were matrilineal and didn’t wear thread(So were Tulu royal families). However, now many South Indian communities like, Reddys, Bunts, Nairs claim themselves to be Kshatriyas. Likewise, many merchant communities declare themselves Vaishyas.

However, wearing thread is bit more complicated in South India. I suppose Mysore royal family Aras(Uras) wear thread. So do many weaver castes of Karnataka(Devanga) and Andhra Pradesh(Padmasali). In Kerala, few artisans(sculptors) wore thread only when they engaged in some kind of sculpting activity. The goldsmiths(Vishwakarmas) wear thread. Curiously when it comes to South India many socially marginal groups of artisans(theoritically Shudras) wore thread and not socially dominant castes.

However, there were stories where Brahmins upgraded Varna of few declared Shudras. I suppose Shivaji was declared “Maratha” during his coronation. A Nair chieftain was made king by a ritual called “Hiranya Garbha Kriya” by Namboothiris in Kerala. I couldn’t get much information about Hiranya Garbha Kriya. It looks like a useful tool for caste upgradation and linguist conversion. The only other instance where I came across Hiranya Garbha Kriya was Namboothiris claim that they transformed themeselves to Malayalee Brahmins from Tulu Brahmins by undergoing Hiranya Garbha Kriya.

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By: Srikanth http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/10/16/blogging_india/comment-page-2/#comment-30549 Srikanth Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:10:14 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=2375#comment-30549 <p>Suhail,</p> <blockquote> dhaavak, you are right. She's on a luxury trip. </blockquote> <blockquote> They do something called "ayudh pooja" on this day. </blockquote> <p>You are correct on both counts.</p> <p>Did not notice anything interesting on Kalita's blog yet. It's all about malls so far.</p> <p>Ayudha Pooja is an important festival in the south, observed towards the end of <i>navaratri</i>. People clean all instruments and devices they use (books, cars, tools, etc.) for worship. In fact, last week I had trouble getting a plumber to fix my water-heater as most of them had kept their tools in puja and would not touch them.</p> <p>And in contrast to an NRI's India blog, here is <a href="http://www.livejournal.com/users/funkwoman/">an American woman's India blog</a>.</p> Suhail,

dhaavak, you are right. She’s on a luxury trip.
They do something called “ayudh pooja” on this day.

You are correct on both counts.

Did not notice anything interesting on Kalita’s blog yet. It’s all about malls so far.

Ayudha Pooja is an important festival in the south, observed towards the end of navaratri. People clean all instruments and devices they use (books, cars, tools, etc.) for worship. In fact, last week I had trouble getting a plumber to fix my water-heater as most of them had kept their tools in puja and would not touch them.

And in contrast to an NRI’s India blog, here is an American woman’s India blog.

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By: Suhail Kazi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/10/16/blogging_india/comment-page-2/#comment-30546 Suhail Kazi Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:36:12 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=2375#comment-30546 <p>dhaavak, you are right. She's on a luxury trip. Child's haircut $4 (x40 = 160Rs). Now I don't know the rates of 5-star celebrity haircuts, but 160Rs is damn too costly and could be imagined only at such places. Even the best upper-midlle class areas won't charge more than 40-50Rs for a haircut. (yes people, we are talking A/Cs, with TV showing cricket, and 10 different magazines having Sallu, Ash and everyone in between on their covers).</p> <p>Kush: I don't think it's Diwali. I've seen it's celebrated mainly in Bangalore(S.India in general) in a big way, where people have banana leaves forming arched entrance to their houses. They do something called "ayudh pooja" on this day. (my spelling of 'ayudh' could be wrong). So either it's Dushera or some other day.</p> dhaavak, you are right. She’s on a luxury trip. Child’s haircut $4 (x40 = 160Rs). Now I don’t know the rates of 5-star celebrity haircuts, but 160Rs is damn too costly and could be imagined only at such places. Even the best upper-midlle class areas won’t charge more than 40-50Rs for a haircut. (yes people, we are talking A/Cs, with TV showing cricket, and 10 different magazines having Sallu, Ash and everyone in between on their covers).

Kush: I don’t think it’s Diwali. I’ve seen it’s celebrated mainly in Bangalore(S.India in general) in a big way, where people have banana leaves forming arched entrance to their houses. They do something called “ayudh pooja” on this day. (my spelling of ‘ayudh’ could be wrong). So either it’s Dushera or some other day.

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By: dhaavak http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/10/16/blogging_india/comment-page-2/#comment-30537 dhaavak Tue, 18 Oct 2005 06:05:46 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=2375#comment-30537 <p>From <a href="http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/india2point0/">Middle Class Sticker Shock</a></p> <blockquote>The price of globalization is much higher than I expected. </blockquote> <p>I just went back to kalita's blog - have to disagree - she appears to be caught in the web of the relatives who are obviously very affluent - just to give a general idea - i've blogged about it but my fiancee and i travelled over 7-8 days in india and spent no more than $150 CAD in all - including gifts for some 6 people, lodging, food and travel. That's about $18USD per day for two people. We are not rich people - but we're frugal only to a limit - and it really sounds like kalita's taking the de-luxe tour of the country - basically the blouse she says she bought for $30 can be had for under $8 USD - if all it is mirrorwork and some brocade. Anyway - just wanted to add this point of view - it's a very free market out there - and sellers charge what they think the client's going to pay. I am a little saddened though - that this was a good opportunity for a sepiate to write a travelogue for the masses - and she's giving it the mickey mouse treatment. anyway ... to each their own.</p> From Middle Class Sticker Shock

The price of globalization is much higher than I expected.

I just went back to kalita’s blog – have to disagree – she appears to be caught in the web of the relatives who are obviously very affluent – just to give a general idea – i’ve blogged about it but my fiancee and i travelled over 7-8 days in india and spent no more than $150 CAD in all – including gifts for some 6 people, lodging, food and travel. That’s about $18USD per day for two people. We are not rich people – but we’re frugal only to a limit – and it really sounds like kalita’s taking the de-luxe tour of the country – basically the blouse she says she bought for $30 can be had for under $8 USD – if all it is mirrorwork and some brocade. Anyway – just wanted to add this point of view – it’s a very free market out there – and sellers charge what they think the client’s going to pay. I am a little saddened though – that this was a good opportunity for a sepiate to write a travelogue for the masses – and she’s giving it the mickey mouse treatment. anyway … to each their own.

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By: razib_the_atheist http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/10/16/blogging_india/comment-page-2/#comment-30536 razib_the_atheist Tue, 18 Oct 2005 06:03:45 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=2375#comment-30536 <p>an even <a href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/09/040930122428.htm">lower age bound</a> than the paper i referenced above.</p> an even lower age bound than the paper i referenced above.

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By: razib_the_atheist http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/10/16/blogging_india/comment-page-2/#comment-30535 razib_the_atheist Tue, 18 Oct 2005 06:02:14 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=2375#comment-30535 <p><i>I remember asking my mother when I was 7 or 8 how SO many people could possibly be descendants of Prophet Muhammad </i></p> <p>not implausible if you trace the chain of ancestries back. the last genealogical common ancestor of <b>all human beings</b> alive today probably lived 5,000 years ago. of course, that doesn't meet that everyone carries genetic material from that individual, genes are discrete combinations of base pairs.</p> I remember asking my mother when I was 7 or 8 how SO many people could possibly be descendants of Prophet Muhammad

not implausible if you trace the chain of ancestries back. the last genealogical common ancestor of all human beings alive today probably lived 5,000 years ago. of course, that doesn’t meet that everyone carries genetic material from that individual, genes are discrete combinations of base pairs.

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By: Umair Muhajir http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/10/16/blogging_india/comment-page-2/#comment-30534 Umair Muhajir Tue, 18 Oct 2005 05:54:22 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=2375#comment-30534 <p>I remember asking my mother when I was 7 or 8 how SO many people could possibly be descendants of Prophet Muhammad (not to mention that since he had no surviving male issue, the descent is being traced through his daughters, which is the only time you'll see THAT in Arab countries)...</p> I remember asking my mother when I was 7 or 8 how SO many people could possibly be descendants of Prophet Muhammad (not to mention that since he had no surviving male issue, the descent is being traced through his daughters, which is the only time you’ll see THAT in Arab countries)…

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