Comments on: "Maybe God is unkind and sends less water in the river…” http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/09/09/maybe_god_is_un/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: sic semper tyrannis http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/09/09/maybe_god_is_un/comment-page-1/#comment-96117 sic semper tyrannis Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:27:06 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=2181#comment-96117 <p>Almost no river can be seen from space by the naked eye, in any visual frame which also captures the entire earth. Surely a telescope or other artificial lens will let you zoom in, but the Brahmaputra is a bestial river that can be observed while the entire planet is in the viewing frame. Launch Google Earth, keep the planet visible, and search for rivers -- you'll be hard pressed to find anything but the Brahmaputra. The Indus and the Mississippi are both practically invisible at those resolutions.</p> <p>Tidal bore is not as rare, but is still extremely rare for rivers. In Asia, there are only 4, in South America, only 1, and in North America, only 2, in Continental Europe, only 4, and none in Africa.</p> Almost no river can be seen from space by the naked eye, in any visual frame which also captures the entire earth. Surely a telescope or other artificial lens will let you zoom in, but the Brahmaputra is a bestial river that can be observed while the entire planet is in the viewing frame. Launch Google Earth, keep the planet visible, and search for rivers — you’ll be hard pressed to find anything but the Brahmaputra. The Indus and the Mississippi are both practically invisible at those resolutions.

Tidal bore is not as rare, but is still extremely rare for rivers. In Asia, there are only 4, in South America, only 1, and in North America, only 2, in Continental Europe, only 4, and none in Africa.

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By: P.G. Wodehouse http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/09/09/maybe_god_is_un/comment-page-1/#comment-96028 P.G. Wodehouse Tue, 24 Oct 2006 01:14:51 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=2181#comment-96028 <blockquote>The brahmaputra is one such unimaginably powerful river, it is clearly visible from space and is one of the few rivers on this planet to exhibit tidal bore.</blockquote> <p>What is special about a river that is visible from space or exhibits tidal bore?</p> The brahmaputra is one such unimaginably powerful river, it is clearly visible from space and is one of the few rivers on this planet to exhibit tidal bore.

What is special about a river that is visible from space or exhibits tidal bore?

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By: sic semper tyrannis http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/09/09/maybe_god_is_un/comment-page-1/#comment-96027 sic semper tyrannis Tue, 24 Oct 2006 01:05:39 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=2181#comment-96027 <p>Salil,</p> <p>I do agree with you that discussion around the Indus Water Treaty or anything Indo-Pak related devolves into drivel, but I believe it does so solely because of people's nature to pontificate on subjects to which quips and haughty retorts can easily be given and to ignore those subjects for which serious thought and strategic planning would be required. When the average Indian after being asked to draw India will draw the shape of PoK to exact measurements while completely forgetting to draw India's northeast, something has to be said about priorities. Eastern India is in danger of being lost through economic and strategic neglect, and by neglect I mean not only by the central govt. there, but by ordinary Indian voters from whom politicians acquire their agenda. Ditto for NWFP in the minds of Pakistanis.</p> <p>Fresh water is considered "<a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=fresh-water+the-next-oil">the next oil</a>", as desalination and other methods prove far more costly than tapping rivers naturally freshened by glacial runoff. Ancient river-worshippers were rather prescient in their admiration for nature's bounty, since a powerful river's fiery can supply hydroelectric power to a continent, and their water can quench the thirst of a billion. The brahmaputra is one such unimaginably powerful river, it is clearly visible from space and is one of the few rivers on this planet to exhibit tidal bore. Ceding such a natural treasure is tantamount to suicide, not the quick, honorable kind, but the slow, emaciating one.</p> <p>Already, those with the financial and political muscle to muster an investment into freshwater <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=fresh-water+paraguay+jenna+bush">have</a>. It's high time (high tide? sorry.) for the rest of us to look carefully at the freshwater issue and the critical importance of the Brahmaputra to the welfare of South Asia.</p> Salil,

I do agree with you that discussion around the Indus Water Treaty or anything Indo-Pak related devolves into drivel, but I believe it does so solely because of people’s nature to pontificate on subjects to which quips and haughty retorts can easily be given and to ignore those subjects for which serious thought and strategic planning would be required. When the average Indian after being asked to draw India will draw the shape of PoK to exact measurements while completely forgetting to draw India’s northeast, something has to be said about priorities. Eastern India is in danger of being lost through economic and strategic neglect, and by neglect I mean not only by the central govt. there, but by ordinary Indian voters from whom politicians acquire their agenda. Ditto for NWFP in the minds of Pakistanis.

Fresh water is considered “the next oil“, as desalination and other methods prove far more costly than tapping rivers naturally freshened by glacial runoff. Ancient river-worshippers were rather prescient in their admiration for nature’s bounty, since a powerful river’s fiery can supply hydroelectric power to a continent, and their water can quench the thirst of a billion. The brahmaputra is one such unimaginably powerful river, it is clearly visible from space and is one of the few rivers on this planet to exhibit tidal bore. Ceding such a natural treasure is tantamount to suicide, not the quick, honorable kind, but the slow, emaciating one.

Already, those with the financial and political muscle to muster an investment into freshwater have. It’s high time (high tide? sorry.) for the rest of us to look carefully at the freshwater issue and the critical importance of the Brahmaputra to the welfare of South Asia.

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By: Salil http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/09/09/maybe_god_is_un/comment-page-1/#comment-96011 Salil Mon, 23 Oct 2006 23:12:21 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=2181#comment-96011 <p>Kudos for resurrecting it, SST. The topic, it is like <a href="http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/003890.html">the zombies</a>! I'd love to see some rational discussion instead of <a href="http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/003826.html">this kind of drivel</a> about Indus Rivers and the resulting irrelevant diatribes.</p> Kudos for resurrecting it, SST. The topic, it is like the zombies! I’d love to see some rational discussion instead of this kind of drivel about Indus Rivers and the resulting irrelevant diatribes.

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By: sic semper tyrannis http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/09/09/maybe_god_is_un/comment-page-1/#comment-96001 sic semper tyrannis Mon, 23 Oct 2006 22:44:54 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=2181#comment-96001 <p>I'm raising this article from the dead because of recent activities concerning the Brahmaputra,</p> <p>China first publicly stated its intention of redirecting the river away from south asia into china as early as <a href="http://www.hindunet.org/saraswati/brahmaputra/china.htm">1996</a> (hindunet.org), but recently, they've begun undertaking the task: <a href="http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2229977.cms">2006, Oct 22</a> - TOI, beware of popups. <a href="http://www.ibnlive.com/news/india-silent-on-chinas-brahmaputra-plan/24572-2.html">2006, Oct 23</a> - ibnlive.com</p> <p>This is a growing news issue as evidenced by altavista's <a href="http://in.altavista.com/news/results?q=brahmaputra">news aggregator</a></p> <p>If China is successful, it would spell disaster for south asia, on the same level as would abrogating the Indus Water Treaty, except that India/Bangladesh hadn't set up a similar treaty with China as Pakistan cleverly had done with India.</p> I’m raising this article from the dead because of recent activities concerning the Brahmaputra,

China first publicly stated its intention of redirecting the river away from south asia into china as early as 1996 (hindunet.org), but recently, they’ve begun undertaking the task: 2006, Oct 22 – TOI, beware of popups. 2006, Oct 23 – ibnlive.com

This is a growing news issue as evidenced by altavista’s news aggregator

If China is successful, it would spell disaster for south asia, on the same level as would abrogating the Indus Water Treaty, except that India/Bangladesh hadn’t set up a similar treaty with China as Pakistan cleverly had done with India.

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By: Dr. Prahalathan KK http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/09/09/maybe_god_is_un/comment-page-1/#comment-25216 Dr. Prahalathan KK Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:41:46 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=2181#comment-25216 <p>The world will survive the human race may not...</p> The world will survive the human race may not…

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By: whoaholygod http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/09/09/maybe_god_is_un/comment-page-1/#comment-25103 whoaholygod Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:22:50 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=2181#comment-25103 <p>One of the ways to curb water use in South Asia would be to make shower heads and bubble spouts mandatory on every faucet (those things that make water come out like foam--standard issue in every faucet in every house in the United States).</p> <p>Shower heads use a fraction of the water rather that "filling up buckets" do, and also do a better job. Only, if they could get the government to supply water isntead of digging private wells and having tanks on top of your house :(</p> <p>Also, widespread use of washing/dish washing machines will help greatly. Oh and quit washing your car everyday, if you want to become a developed nation quit treating your car like a luxury thing instead of a necessity.</p> <p>Unless people are willing to change their habits, death rates will only increase.</p> One of the ways to curb water use in South Asia would be to make shower heads and bubble spouts mandatory on every faucet (those things that make water come out like foam–standard issue in every faucet in every house in the United States).

Shower heads use a fraction of the water rather that “filling up buckets” do, and also do a better job. Only, if they could get the government to supply water isntead of digging private wells and having tanks on top of your house :(

Also, widespread use of washing/dish washing machines will help greatly. Oh and quit washing your car everyday, if you want to become a developed nation quit treating your car like a luxury thing instead of a necessity.

Unless people are willing to change their habits, death rates will only increase.

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By: jim` http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/09/09/maybe_god_is_un/comment-page-1/#comment-24926 jim` Sat, 10 Sep 2005 15:40:42 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=2181#comment-24926 <p>I'm far more worried about epidemic disease than global climate change and natural resource mismanagement. Mother Nature has a way of pruning populations which grow too quickly. In particular, I wonder whether the virulence of TB doesn't undergo changes over time.</p> I’m far more worried about epidemic disease than global climate change and natural resource mismanagement. Mother Nature has a way of pruning populations which grow too quickly. In particular, I wonder whether the virulence of TB doesn’t undergo changes over time.

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By: Kush Tandon http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/09/09/maybe_god_is_un/comment-page-1/#comment-24831 Kush Tandon Sat, 10 Sep 2005 00:07:12 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=2181#comment-24831 <p>PS: I had some email exchange with John Shroder yesterday. We all have hope........Let's keep our fingers crossed.</p> <p>From: http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/2005/819/1 Science at the Top of the World</p> <p>John Shroder and Michael Bishop know that one scientific workshop next spring won't erase a half-century of rancor between India and Pakistan over Kashmir. But the two geoscientists at the University of Nebraska, Omaha, believe turning the Karakoram mountain range and Siachen Glacier into a scientific peace park could help ease tensions between India and Pakistan and advance knowledge of various scientific processes at 8000 meters.</p> <p>The idea of turning the war-torn region into a peace park has been around for a long time. But the concept began to gel only 2 years ago when Harry Barnes, a former U.S. ambassador to India, contacted Shroder about organizing a workshop. Shroder used his 25-year-long scientific ties to the region to sign up Syed Hamidullah, director of the National Centre of Excellence in Geology at the University of Peshawar in Pakistan, and Syed Iqbal Hasnain, vice chancellor of Calicut University in India.</p> <p>This month the U.S. National Science Foundation (NSF) made a $70,000 grant to what Shroder and Bishop have labeled the Karakoram Science Project. Combined with $30,000 from the Office of Naval Research and $25,000 from the Richard Lounsbery Foundation in Washington, D.C., the money will enable some 30 to 40 scientists from the United States, India, Pakistan, China, and elsewhere to meet next May in Lahore, Pakistan, to discuss an array of geological, climactic, and environmental questions. "NSF was particularly interested in including younger scientists," says Shroder. "It's the first time they've ever given me more money than I've asked for." In June, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh proclaimed his support for the idea during an unprecedented visit to Siachen. "The NSF grant is a step in the right direction," says Hasnain, "in building bridges that might lead to the ultimate demilitarization" of the glacier. Pervez Hoodbhoy, a physicist at Quaid-e-Azam University in Islamabad, Pakistan, believes that the workshop, if it leads to a peace park, is "proof that enmities are not forever."</p> <p>Bishop and Shroder plan to concentrate on the science and leave the peacemaking to others. But they readily acknowledge that the workshop could be the start of something much bigger. "If we can get people to work together, there's no telling what could come of it," says Bishop. "We just want to get the ball rolling."</p> PS: I had some email exchange with John Shroder yesterday. We all have hope……..Let’s keep our fingers crossed.

From: http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/2005/819/1 Science at the Top of the World

John Shroder and Michael Bishop know that one scientific workshop next spring won’t erase a half-century of rancor between India and Pakistan over Kashmir. But the two geoscientists at the University of Nebraska, Omaha, believe turning the Karakoram mountain range and Siachen Glacier into a scientific peace park could help ease tensions between India and Pakistan and advance knowledge of various scientific processes at 8000 meters.

The idea of turning the war-torn region into a peace park has been around for a long time. But the concept began to gel only 2 years ago when Harry Barnes, a former U.S. ambassador to India, contacted Shroder about organizing a workshop. Shroder used his 25-year-long scientific ties to the region to sign up Syed Hamidullah, director of the National Centre of Excellence in Geology at the University of Peshawar in Pakistan, and Syed Iqbal Hasnain, vice chancellor of Calicut University in India.

This month the U.S. National Science Foundation (NSF) made a $70,000 grant to what Shroder and Bishop have labeled the Karakoram Science Project. Combined with $30,000 from the Office of Naval Research and $25,000 from the Richard Lounsbery Foundation in Washington, D.C., the money will enable some 30 to 40 scientists from the United States, India, Pakistan, China, and elsewhere to meet next May in Lahore, Pakistan, to discuss an array of geological, climactic, and environmental questions. “NSF was particularly interested in including younger scientists,” says Shroder. “It’s the first time they’ve ever given me more money than I’ve asked for.” In June, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh proclaimed his support for the idea during an unprecedented visit to Siachen. “The NSF grant is a step in the right direction,” says Hasnain, “in building bridges that might lead to the ultimate demilitarization” of the glacier. Pervez Hoodbhoy, a physicist at Quaid-e-Azam University in Islamabad, Pakistan, believes that the workshop, if it leads to a peace park, is “proof that enmities are not forever.”

Bishop and Shroder plan to concentrate on the science and leave the peacemaking to others. But they readily acknowledge that the workshop could be the start of something much bigger. “If we can get people to work together, there’s no telling what could come of it,” says Bishop. “We just want to get the ball rolling.”

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By: Kush Tandon http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/09/09/maybe_god_is_un/comment-page-1/#comment-24829 Kush Tandon Fri, 09 Sep 2005 23:48:16 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=2181#comment-24829 <p>"what about the indian subcontinent plate pushing further northeast into the plate that china rests on pushing the himalayas and the surrounding land higher and higher up. won't the temperature at the higher altitude help in the least bit? i'm sure the rate is so miniscule over time though, so not sure."</p> <p>Not really. The oceans, earth, and atmosphere is a very complex feed-back system.</p> “what about the indian subcontinent plate pushing further northeast into the plate that china rests on pushing the himalayas and the surrounding land higher and higher up. won’t the temperature at the higher altitude help in the least bit? i’m sure the rate is so miniscule over time though, so not sure.”

Not really. The oceans, earth, and atmosphere is a very complex feed-back system.

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