The percentage of Hindus going from 15% to about 1% in Pakistan is not a coincidence is it?

I hope I donÂ’t make this conversation stray of it’s point (if that hasnÂ’t already occurred) but to my knowledge more acts of violence have been perpetrated by Hindus on Indian Muslims than by Pakistanis on Pakistani Hindus (Gujarat, Kashmir etc). Acts of violence are committed by both countries on their minorities. Where people get this impression of India being a utopian magical place where minorities are completely equal and in no way suffer acts of violence or hostility I donÂ’t know. Again I stress, minorities in BOTH countries suffer SPORADICALLY at the hands of the majority (Hindu or Muslim).

Utter lies and nonsense it makes perfect sense. Desi politics is clearly all about the Is vs the Ps. India vs Pakistan, Isreal vs Palestine, Insaf vs Politics, etc …

Though you have to be careful it’s not that simple anymore, the world is becoming more corrupt. Nowadays it is fashon for the sides to switch letters like the Islamic-wahabists vs Puritan-wannabees thats is so popular.

I blame Vestern influence.

no, as usual most ppl take an honest opinion to mean anger. I’m in no way angry or resentful of Muslims or anything else, my life is wonderful, but I do voice my opinions on wrongdoings and inadequacies. I’m not PC by any means, which means these days if you don’t sugarcoat something you say, you’re a jerk. Some ppl can deal w/ it and some can’t.

me too, i met a Pakistani Hindu and she was telling me that life in karachi was ok. That she could practice hinduism, HOWEVER, it couldn’t be expressed strongly, nor would the locals tolerate any big celebrations of any type. Basically, pray and be quiet and don’t piss them off….that’s not religious freedom. In India, USA, UK, etc, where muslims have resided, they blatantly show their religious beliefs via women wearing hijabs/burquas, their behavior and prayers and celebrations, and it’s ok. To suppress that would inflame the community. yet in their backyards it’s a privelege to practice your own religion. Sadly, this girl had the same reaction your acquaintance did, that this was the way things are.

now before anyone jumps down my throat, realize that many of my family’s dear friends are muslims and are great ppl, i was making a compare/contrast observation based on my experiences and encounters.

huh?

Because you seem to be very angry and bitter.

huh?

1) see infidels: a history of conflict between christendom and islam by andrew wheatcraft on the absolute vs. relative state of jews (as well as muslims and christians) in al-andalus/spain. wheatcraft is a scholar with a deep background in spain, and he focuses on jews as a third person in the narrative. the point is that al-andalus is often lionized as if it was analogous to the jewish haskalah (“enlightenment”) of the 19th century. but the analogy is not particularly strong.

2) as for the quote from the jewish library, one tradition in historiagraphy asserts that the lionization of al-andalus by jews is due to two factors:

a) the singular trauma of the expulsion b) it was a non-western example of tolerance that was used to criticize western anti-semitism in the modern period.

in other words, i think it can be understand within the intellectual context of the west like the sinophilia of the early 18th century, or the romanticization of the kingdom of prester john. this is not to say that jews did not have tolerance in al-andalus vs. many christian nations (where they were expelled), but one needs to keep perspective, as before 1500 it seems highly plausible that before 1700 more jews lived in the dar-al-islam than in europe in any case (there was a population explosion of ashkenazi jews between 1700-1800 of enormous magnitude).

3) as for the quibbling about the “enlightenment” and “modernity,” there is simply a paradigm gap that won’t be bridged here i suspect. i am not utopian idealist, i have spoken in other places of how enlightenment science was a necessary precondition of modern scientific racialism. i am aware of how the enlightenment was coupled with the civilizing mission to the barbarians and colored peoples of the world. nevertheless, it is a sui generis civilization in my opinion, to use sagan’s phrase, it is a candle in a “demon haunted world.” ultimately the self-critical and scientific values of the enlightnement are minoritarian even in the west, where most individuals are breeders. but i reject the hand-wringing contextualization of some, and the contention that the enlightenment is an outgrowth of “christianity” is a true, but substanceless contention in my opinion.

4) one of the issues that seems to crop up here is a concern for the whole world. i think i’ve made it clear my focus is on america, and in particular the west. i don’t particularly care what other people do.

I met a Pakistani Hindu once, she acted as if it was the most natural thing in the world. (Probably a built up reaction to everyone’s inevitable surprise and intrigue). But I wonder, to what extent is the above statement really true? Especially the “harassed” part…Would love to get some first-hand accounts (or links).

i see no disagreement between you. it’s clear that islam is part of what we are talking about because we are discussing early 21st-century jihadi terrorism (as opposed to the many other terrorisms that are and have been out there), and jihadi terrorism makes reference to islam by definition.

having established that, i agree that discussing “why” people of other faiths don’t commit terrorist acts is a complete red herring. not least because people of all faiths commit terrorist acts.

with respect to the question at hand, then, i think punjabi boy has made a big contribution by getting us to think about specific diasporic sub-communities (specific both by origin and by destination) and what might lead one to become more prone to jihadi terrorism and another less so. i don’t think we’ve got the answers yet, but i appreciate the method. it’s certainly made me think.

shashwati, you are right on with “my son the fanatic.” (this was discussed somewhere here in the immediate wake of the london attack.) great film. i was disappointed by hanif kureishi’s recent op-ed, though. very abstract, timid, taking refuge in some kind of vague intellectualism. the brother’s definitely lost his edge.

peace