Comments on: Why he ran

By: Brit Spice

Brit Spice — Thu, 04 Aug 2005 13:12:02 +0000

Jumping back a little… he ran because he saw plain clothes coppers running after him, they didn’t shout “police” or “we are armed” at any given point. Stories say that weren’t even wearing their “POLICE” labelled baseball caps. He also ran because of where he is from. In Brazil, if you see a group of armed men (police or no police) running at you, you run or you get shot.

By: jayann

jayann — Mon, 01 Aug 2005 03:08:47 +0000

"the other day the headlines were all screaming that the recent bombers were asylum-seekers on benefits. How does that work?"

they weren't asylum-seekers. I think they were all UK citizens. One had been given housing benefit, but that had stopped (sorry I don't know the details). The headlines you were seeing were our scum tabloids ranting about the fact that their parents were immigrants, and about the one who had housing benefit.

Asylum-seekers can though claim certain welfare benefits; and they have rights to free health care (but if they are turned down, only emergency care), education, and free school meals and clothing grants.

By: Josh

Josh — Sat, 30 Jul 2005 03:23:47 +0000

Wow, ignorance is bliss I guess. Why we’re the cops in plain clothes? In Penn station the Amtrak waiting room is basically the cafeteria for all the cops in mid-town Manhattan. I’ve actually been waiting for them to start installing anti-personnel mines and gun emplacements for about a year now.

By: sy

sy — Sat, 30 Jul 2005 00:06:54 +0000

But seeing a cop in the Underground (after all that's happened), and then running away. Not good.

Not good and not true. He didn't "see a cop in the Underground". First of all, he saw several plain-clothes cops; that is, people in street clothes running after him and pointing their guns at him. That's the key issue. Second, he didn't see them in the Underground then start running. He was CHASED into the Underground.

By: KAFKA ON THE SHORE

KAFKA ON THE SHORE — Fri, 29 Jul 2005 20:14:48 +0000

Fair enough. Though I think a really hungry person (hungry due to circumstances out of his control) stealing bread is not morally wrong either. And that story you just linked is really insane!

By: Manish Vij

Manish Vij — Fri, 29 Jul 2005 20:01:52 +0000

The truly, desperately poor can't afford visas and plane tickets or even smugglers. The ones who do come are economic migrants wanting to make more money (good) who take shortcuts (bad). IMO it's much less morally defensible than a hungry person stealing bread.

The right way to do this is through the front door with head held high. Really, what's the point when a pissed-off neighbor can get you deported from your dishwashing job?

By: KAFKA ON THE SHORE

KAFKA ON THE SHORE — Fri, 29 Jul 2005 19:48:33 +0000

Yes, it is illegal. However, what’s important is whether it is morally wrong as well. In fact, that’s what we are debating. You think illegal immigrants lose self-respect when they make a choice to illegally immigrate whereas I think we can’t judge them. So though it is illegal, I think morally ok. For that reason, I think its not like a poor person stealing bread which (may) be considered morally wrong.

By: Manish Vij

Manish Vij — Fri, 29 Jul 2005 19:26:45 +0000

I don't think its like a poor person stealing bread - but more like a person who is willing to work in dangerous conditions...

Illegally. It's not like a parking ticket.

By: KAFKA ON THE SHORE

KAFKA ON THE SHORE — Fri, 29 Jul 2005 19:12:02 +0000

Of course, I agree that one needs to rationalize immigration law and that the black market for human smugglers is sad.

Having said that, the way the system already is, I think its patronising for us to say that the choice illegal immigrants make (which of course involves a lot of risk etc.) is a choice which lacks self-respect. I don't think its like a poor person stealing bread - but more like a person who is willing to work in dangerous conditions so that they have a shot at a better life for themselves and their families. Sometimes it ends tragically (like de Menezes) but sometimes they end up living happier lives. And from the pictures of Menezes thrown around in the press, it looks like he was having a pretty good time till the cops shot him.

murakami in the water - maybe you should forget the girl, forget bach and listen to norwegian wood instead. then she'll be the girl who once had you.

By: Murakami in the water

Murakami in the water — Fri, 29 Jul 2005 18:45:31 +0000

and murakami in the water, what’s it like to be in the water?

It’s like having a wife you don’t really like. I woke up today at 11 am, had a beer and played some Bach. Then I called my girlfriend from Tokyo. I’m not sure how I feel about her. She reminds me of a wind-up bird.