Comments on: What’ll get you interrogated these days http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/28/whatll_get_you/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: vurdlife http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/28/whatll_get_you/comment-page-2/#comment-18172 vurdlife Mon, 01 Aug 2005 08:03:13 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1915#comment-18172 <blockquote>I, too, see the absurdity of subjecting <b>Chinese grandmothers </b>to the same level of scrutiny as people from the Indian subcontinent at the airport check-in counter.</blockquote> <p>Its <a href="http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/article/0,13673,501020923-351276,00.html">not that absurd</a> after all. (article about chinese separatists/terrorists). The real absurdity lies in racial profiling. First, because non-desis/arabs can be terrorists too (john walker lindh, jose padilla, richard reid, at least one of the london bombers) and second, because if screening procedures are as obtuse and inaccurate as focusing on race as a primary red-flag indicator, I'd feel DOUBLY unsafe.</p> <p>One because I'd be the (continued) target of undue scrutiny at the airport, and two, because all Al-qaeda would have to do is recruit a "chinese grandmother" and she'd get by with no problem.</p> <p>Intelligence should be intelligent.</p> I, too, see the absurdity of subjecting Chinese grandmothers to the same level of scrutiny as people from the Indian subcontinent at the airport check-in counter.

Its not that absurd after all. (article about chinese separatists/terrorists). The real absurdity lies in racial profiling. First, because non-desis/arabs can be terrorists too (john walker lindh, jose padilla, richard reid, at least one of the london bombers) and second, because if screening procedures are as obtuse and inaccurate as focusing on race as a primary red-flag indicator, I’d feel DOUBLY unsafe.

One because I’d be the (continued) target of undue scrutiny at the airport, and two, because all Al-qaeda would have to do is recruit a “chinese grandmother” and she’d get by with no problem.

Intelligence should be intelligent.

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By: raju http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/28/whatll_get_you/comment-page-2/#comment-18110 raju Fri, 29 Jul 2005 22:20:56 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1915#comment-18110 <p>Sidharth m,</p> <p>I agree there's something about holding on to your fear that allows you to turn that against the person you are afraid of. I think being fearful of african americans, african american males particularly, helps to make it more likely that african american males will be criminilized for behavior that others might not be</p> Sidharth m,

I agree there’s something about holding on to your fear that allows you to turn that against the person you are afraid of. I think being fearful of african americans, african american males particularly, helps to make it more likely that african american males will be criminilized for behavior that others might not be

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By: cicatrix http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/28/whatll_get_you/comment-page-2/#comment-18097 cicatrix Fri, 29 Jul 2005 20:47:21 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1915#comment-18097 <p>sorry! Right link this time for <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0465014909/qid=1122662780/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-8879269-5491034?v=glance&s=books&n=507846">Culture of Fear.</a></p> sorry! Right link this time for Culture of Fear.

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By: cicatrix http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/28/whatll_get_you/comment-page-2/#comment-18093 cicatrix Fri, 29 Jul 2005 19:54:07 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1915#comment-18093 <p>Great point Siddhartha M. I didn't get you confused with the other Siddharth before. Just a typo;)</p> <p>Here's the book <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0375706070/103-8879269-5491034?v=glance"> Culture of Fear.</a></p> <p>Mike Davis wrote <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0375706070/103-8879269-5491034?v=glance">Ecology of Fear</a> more to explain why fighting nature in LA is a bad idea. But the book explains succintly why and how certain architectural and urban planning decisions aren't accidental, how they seperate the rich from the undesireables, and how it all contributes to a constant level of anxiety.</p> <p>William Upski Wimsatte has many detractors, and I for one think his "cool rich kids" idea is a joke. But the man does practice what he preaches. (I met him on the subway. He'd been riding the rails to New Lots and back, selling <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/product-description/1887128425/ref=dp_proddesc_0/103-8879269-5491034?%5Fencoding=UTF8&n=283155">No More Prisons</a> to passengers.) Some of his ideas might be a bit far-fetched and amatuer, but he does make a heartfelt, compelling case for how corporations, politicians, and advertisers prey upon our fears to get us to buy more stuff, elect without questioning, and buy even more stuff...all the while deepening racial and social divides.</p> Great point Siddhartha M. I didn’t get you confused with the other Siddharth before. Just a typo;)

Here’s the book Culture of Fear.

Mike Davis wrote Ecology of Fear more to explain why fighting nature in LA is a bad idea. But the book explains succintly why and how certain architectural and urban planning decisions aren’t accidental, how they seperate the rich from the undesireables, and how it all contributes to a constant level of anxiety.

William Upski Wimsatte has many detractors, and I for one think his “cool rich kids” idea is a joke. But the man does practice what he preaches. (I met him on the subway. He’d been riding the rails to New Lots and back, selling No More Prisons to passengers.) Some of his ideas might be a bit far-fetched and amatuer, but he does make a heartfelt, compelling case for how corporations, politicians, and advertisers prey upon our fears to get us to buy more stuff, elect without questioning, and buy even more stuff…all the while deepening racial and social divides.

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By: SMR http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/28/whatll_get_you/comment-page-2/#comment-18085 SMR Fri, 29 Jul 2005 18:27:58 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1915#comment-18085 <p>Tunku V. on profiling in the <a href="http://www.opinionjournal.com/taste/?id=110007032">Opinion Journal</a>: Suddenly we all feel like the cop, and some of us like the suspect. I am just as concerned about catching terrorists (who may look like me) as anyone else who looks different. I can ask that the searches and scrutiny be done in a professional manner, with no insults and nothing that offends my dignity. I, too, see the absurdity of subjecting Chinese grandmothers to the same level of scrutiny as people from the Indian subcontinent at the airport check-in counter.</p> Tunku V. on profiling in the Opinion Journal: Suddenly we all feel like the cop, and some of us like the suspect. I am just as concerned about catching terrorists (who may look like me) as anyone else who looks different. I can ask that the searches and scrutiny be done in a professional manner, with no insults and nothing that offends my dignity. I, too, see the absurdity of subjecting Chinese grandmothers to the same level of scrutiny as people from the Indian subcontinent at the airport check-in counter.

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By: siddhartha m http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/28/whatll_get_you/comment-page-2/#comment-18079 siddhartha m Fri, 29 Jul 2005 17:52:23 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1915#comment-18079 <blockquote>but there seems to be a point when the fear switches from something uninvited in my mind to something else. I think that something else is the problem here, whats making life a bit harder.</blockquote> <p>raju, you are right on the money with this. the difference is the "culture of fear," as it has been aptly termed. at the moment, people in the u.s. and britain are being acculturated, by government, media etc., to fear brown folk. just as in the past and in other places, other folk have been stigmatized.</p> <p>in the context of the u.s., this is part of a broader trend of cultivating anxiety that manifests itself in countless arenas from popular culture and television to architecture and real estate development. there's political capital in instilling and catering to fear, and there's even more revenue potential, as fearful people tend to want to buy products to make them feel more secure.</p> <p>the only way to liberate yourself is to decide not to fear. i don't mean be stupid -- of course bad things happen and one must be aware. but this is why i like your comment -- it tries to situate where the line exists between common-sense awareness and consenting to a culture of fear.</p> <p>we must decide not to fear. it's one way in which the solution lies within -- part of the spiritual dimension.</p> <p>peace</p> but there seems to be a point when the fear switches from something uninvited in my mind to something else. I think that something else is the problem here, whats making life a bit harder.

raju, you are right on the money with this. the difference is the “culture of fear,” as it has been aptly termed. at the moment, people in the u.s. and britain are being acculturated, by government, media etc., to fear brown folk. just as in the past and in other places, other folk have been stigmatized.

in the context of the u.s., this is part of a broader trend of cultivating anxiety that manifests itself in countless arenas from popular culture and television to architecture and real estate development. there’s political capital in instilling and catering to fear, and there’s even more revenue potential, as fearful people tend to want to buy products to make them feel more secure.

the only way to liberate yourself is to decide not to fear. i don’t mean be stupid — of course bad things happen and one must be aware. but this is why i like your comment — it tries to situate where the line exists between common-sense awareness and consenting to a culture of fear.

we must decide not to fear. it’s one way in which the solution lies within — part of the spiritual dimension.

peace

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By: raju http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/28/whatll_get_you/comment-page-2/#comment-18050 raju Fri, 29 Jul 2005 08:23:49 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1915#comment-18050 <p>G,</p> <p>appreciate your commments. I think I understand a little sizing up a person when you're walking home late at night. but I think that being on an airplane or using public transportation is different. I do understand someone having a fear cross their mind. but in these circumstances letting that fear germinate, I think, can be a concious decision. maybe thats just me, but I can have one hundred assumptions of who to fear in a given circumstance, but there seems to be a point when the fear switches from something uninvited in my mind to something else. I think that something else is the problem here, whats making life a bit harder.</p> G,

appreciate your commments. I think I understand a little sizing up a person when you’re walking home late at night. but I think that being on an airplane or using public transportation is different. I do understand someone having a fear cross their mind. but in these circumstances letting that fear germinate, I think, can be a concious decision. maybe thats just me, but I can have one hundred assumptions of who to fear in a given circumstance, but there seems to be a point when the fear switches from something uninvited in my mind to something else. I think that something else is the problem here, whats making life a bit harder.

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By: Gaya http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/28/whatll_get_you/comment-page-2/#comment-18047 Gaya Fri, 29 Jul 2005 07:33:20 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1915#comment-18047 <p>Now I'm double posting...</p> <p>But you are right. It is sad that I size up the folks I board a plane with. But "rise above your situation," as you say, and put yourself in the shoes of a female for a day. I admit that I do a face-value assessment of those around me all the time. When I walk home alone late at night and I hear footsteps behind me, you bet your ass I turn around and size that individual up. And you know what? It IS sad that I have to do that. The logical part of my brain says, "Hm, G. 80% of sexual assaults are committed by acquaintances, and y'know, the logical part of you KNOWS that you're more likely to get attacked by one of your male friends, then, say, this stranger who is probably just looking for his car. It's OK. I could probably outrun him anyway. I'm wearing sneakers." Trust me, that is NOT a comforting thought in that situation. Unfortunately, violent crimes against women are a reality that all women are aware of and so yes, I admit it. I size people up. I do it all the time. I get scared sometimes. It ain't all fun for us gals either. It is so, so sad.</p> <p>On a much lighter point, I think I'm saying that we all size people up all the time, and yes. It is sad that we do so. Most of the time, however, it's lighter fare than "rapist" or "terrorist." And most of the time, the reasonable part of our brain is able to hold things down for us, so we don't freak out. Yeesh. Let's get out of this conversation already.</p> Now I’m double posting…

But you are right. It is sad that I size up the folks I board a plane with. But “rise above your situation,” as you say, and put yourself in the shoes of a female for a day. I admit that I do a face-value assessment of those around me all the time. When I walk home alone late at night and I hear footsteps behind me, you bet your ass I turn around and size that individual up. And you know what? It IS sad that I have to do that. The logical part of my brain says, “Hm, G. 80% of sexual assaults are committed by acquaintances, and y’know, the logical part of you KNOWS that you’re more likely to get attacked by one of your male friends, then, say, this stranger who is probably just looking for his car. It’s OK. I could probably outrun him anyway. I’m wearing sneakers.” Trust me, that is NOT a comforting thought in that situation. Unfortunately, violent crimes against women are a reality that all women are aware of and so yes, I admit it. I size people up. I do it all the time. I get scared sometimes. It ain’t all fun for us gals either. It is so, so sad.

On a much lighter point, I think I’m saying that we all size people up all the time, and yes. It is sad that we do so. Most of the time, however, it’s lighter fare than “rapist” or “terrorist.” And most of the time, the reasonable part of our brain is able to hold things down for us, so we don’t freak out. Yeesh. Let’s get out of this conversation already.

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By: gaya http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/28/whatll_get_you/comment-page-2/#comment-18043 gaya Fri, 29 Jul 2005 06:56:17 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1915#comment-18043 <p>But Raju, that's exactly what I'm saying: it is NOT reasonable, and MOST people know it most of the time. But not all. And that's why these things we're discussing today, are fortunately rare. UNfortunately, stereotypes (I believe all stereotypes are "lazy") and gross generalizations are passed ALL the time. I do have two brothers and I'm sure they had to put up with a lot of crap in the weeks after 9/11. I do happen to be female, and I've never actually discussed "fear of terrorists on airplances, specifically those of mocha-hued skin" with my brothers, I know it makes them nervous too to see someone that might be perceived as a "terrorist." I don't see how it makes a difference -- I could easily have been a brown male and posted that while I am doing that to brown males, others are doing it to me. I will always be suspicious and suspected. Help me, my friends -- what can we do about it? How can we relate to the police, the public, and our own communities? It makes us ALL jittery -- let's all work together. Unfortunately, while we can very easily accept the nervousness of the general public at large, we can't seem to admit our own nervousness? Why? It doesn't delegitimize unjustified persecution and humiliations. Your friend had an encounter with a rude, unreasonable person. UNREASONABLE being the key word.</p> <p>Everyone was able to pick up and get back on the tube to go to work the day after the explosions. I know I didn't have any particular fears, except a small one that someone might associate me with "terrorism" and be mean, among other things. I wasn't nervous about another explosion, but I didn't see anything on the tube that made me nervous. Who knows. If there was a scruffy looking South Asian male on board, I might have experienced just a notch more relief when I arrived at my destination safe and sound, just as I would have expected.</p> <p>I understand the frustration this brings about to many young men. (Er..not being a brown male, I'll never understand. Just as you will never understand what it means to be a minority female -- but that's a whole different conversation :)But I appreciate your frustration and I'm glad you responded to me.)</p> But Raju, that’s exactly what I’m saying: it is NOT reasonable, and MOST people know it most of the time. But not all. And that’s why these things we’re discussing today, are fortunately rare. UNfortunately, stereotypes (I believe all stereotypes are “lazy”) and gross generalizations are passed ALL the time. I do have two brothers and I’m sure they had to put up with a lot of crap in the weeks after 9/11. I do happen to be female, and I’ve never actually discussed “fear of terrorists on airplances, specifically those of mocha-hued skin” with my brothers, I know it makes them nervous too to see someone that might be perceived as a “terrorist.” I don’t see how it makes a difference — I could easily have been a brown male and posted that while I am doing that to brown males, others are doing it to me. I will always be suspicious and suspected. Help me, my friends — what can we do about it? How can we relate to the police, the public, and our own communities? It makes us ALL jittery — let’s all work together. Unfortunately, while we can very easily accept the nervousness of the general public at large, we can’t seem to admit our own nervousness? Why? It doesn’t delegitimize unjustified persecution and humiliations. Your friend had an encounter with a rude, unreasonable person. UNREASONABLE being the key word.

Everyone was able to pick up and get back on the tube to go to work the day after the explosions. I know I didn’t have any particular fears, except a small one that someone might associate me with “terrorism” and be mean, among other things. I wasn’t nervous about another explosion, but I didn’t see anything on the tube that made me nervous. Who knows. If there was a scruffy looking South Asian male on board, I might have experienced just a notch more relief when I arrived at my destination safe and sound, just as I would have expected.

I understand the frustration this brings about to many young men. (Er..not being a brown male, I’ll never understand. Just as you will never understand what it means to be a minority female — but that’s a whole different conversation :) But I appreciate your frustration and I’m glad you responded to me.)

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By: raju http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/28/whatll_get_you/comment-page-2/#comment-18042 raju Fri, 29 Jul 2005 06:26:17 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1915#comment-18042 <p>sorry for the double post, but,</p> <p>i know someone, a brown male, who was looking at flight info when a man called out to him, you're looking at that list a long time. you know what? who told the guy off? his sister. who ordinarily will take the piss out of him 24/7. i don't think this situation is understandable if understanable means reasonable. there's what, 1 billion brown males in the world. you think you're actually being reasonable to suspect us because we look fobby? its understandable, in my opinion, if you think lazy stereotypes and gross generalizations are something to defend. sorry to get harsh, but this stuff is very not fun.</p> sorry for the double post, but,

i know someone, a brown male, who was looking at flight info when a man called out to him, you’re looking at that list a long time. you know what? who told the guy off? his sister. who ordinarily will take the piss out of him 24/7. i don’t think this situation is understandable if understanable means reasonable. there’s what, 1 billion brown males in the world. you think you’re actually being reasonable to suspect us because we look fobby? its understandable, in my opinion, if you think lazy stereotypes and gross generalizations are something to defend. sorry to get harsh, but this stuff is very not fun.

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