Comments on: Fareed-peat http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/24/fareedpeat/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: ms http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/24/fareedpeat/comment-page-1/#comment-18151 ms Sun, 31 Jul 2005 07:54:41 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1888#comment-18151 <p><a href="http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1186717,curpg-3.cms">Here </a> is another article that looks at the lack of involvement of Indian Muslims in terrorism.</p> Here is another article that looks at the lack of involvement of Indian Muslims in terrorism.

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By: alybaba http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/24/fareedpeat/comment-page-1/#comment-17754 alybaba Wed, 27 Jul 2005 19:07:28 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1888#comment-17754 <p>Gujjubhai, that should be US money + Saudi money + Pak military</p> Gujjubhai, that should be US money + Saudi money + Pak military

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By: Gujjubhai http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/24/fareedpeat/comment-page-1/#comment-17391 Gujjubhai Tue, 26 Jul 2005 00:28:31 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1888#comment-17391 <p>Mujahid Bhai,</p> <p>Bhagwan has not blessed me with enough wisdom to answer such a question even in a hypothetical context. What I do know is that not acknowledging the existence of a problem and ignoring inconveinet facts has never been a useful approach to solving a problem. Unfortunately, in a lot of debates on terrorism including those on threads here on this blog, I see that many people are doing exactly that : they go through incredible verbal and rhetorical gymnastics to deny, deflect, rationalize and do everything else but face the root cause of global terrorism, which is the fundification of Pak and the ideological and financial support by Saudi Arabia for the creation of a global jihadi infrastructure. Saudi money + Pak military together are running an integrated global jihad operation using the impressionable young minds from Pakistan, Afghanistan, and as it turns out now, people of Pakistani origin in other countries like Britain. Al Qaeda and Taliban are just offhoots - Frankenstianina and may be out of control today, but still the progeny - of this vast enterprise whose foundations were laid down by the Zia regime in late 70's and early 80's to foment terrorism in Punjab. Any attempt at solving the terrorism problem has to recognize these facts, and start with at least this much grounding in reality.</p> <p>Read the Musharraf speech : it's a confessions of all that is going on in Pakistan for the last few decades. What is really interesting is that all of this would've continued to go on if now whitelives were lost in the West. As long as the victims were Kashmiri or other Indian Hindus, the world would go on its merry way and Pak militiary would 've continued its policy of bleeding India by thousand cuts. Hopefully, this time around, the world will wake up and learn that terrorism is an enemy of civilization itself and assuming that it will stay localized is just stupid. It they are killing brown infidels today and going unpunished, they will certainly turn around and start killing whitey infidels tomorrow. Any solution of terrorism has to be based on the Nato-esque premise that attack on one part of civilized world is attack on everyone. It doesn't matter if the victims are brown, yellow, white or Hindus, Muslims or Christians, terrorism must be stopped. A life on Egyptian muslim victim of terrorism is just as valuable as that of a Kashmiri Hindu or a British Chsritian or an American Sikh.</p> Mujahid Bhai,

Bhagwan has not blessed me with enough wisdom to answer such a question even in a hypothetical context. What I do know is that not acknowledging the existence of a problem and ignoring inconveinet facts has never been a useful approach to solving a problem. Unfortunately, in a lot of debates on terrorism including those on threads here on this blog, I see that many people are doing exactly that : they go through incredible verbal and rhetorical gymnastics to deny, deflect, rationalize and do everything else but face the root cause of global terrorism, which is the fundification of Pak and the ideological and financial support by Saudi Arabia for the creation of a global jihadi infrastructure. Saudi money + Pak military together are running an integrated global jihad operation using the impressionable young minds from Pakistan, Afghanistan, and as it turns out now, people of Pakistani origin in other countries like Britain. Al Qaeda and Taliban are just offhoots – Frankenstianina and may be out of control today, but still the progeny – of this vast enterprise whose foundations were laid down by the Zia regime in late 70′s and early 80′s to foment terrorism in Punjab. Any attempt at solving the terrorism problem has to recognize these facts, and start with at least this much grounding in reality.

Read the Musharraf speech : it’s a confessions of all that is going on in Pakistan for the last few decades. What is really interesting is that all of this would’ve continued to go on if now whitelives were lost in the West. As long as the victims were Kashmiri or other Indian Hindus, the world would go on its merry way and Pak militiary would ‘ve continued its policy of bleeding India by thousand cuts. Hopefully, this time around, the world will wake up and learn that terrorism is an enemy of civilization itself and assuming that it will stay localized is just stupid. It they are killing brown infidels today and going unpunished, they will certainly turn around and start killing whitey infidels tomorrow. Any solution of terrorism has to be based on the Nato-esque premise that attack on one part of civilized world is attack on everyone. It doesn’t matter if the victims are brown, yellow, white or Hindus, Muslims or Christians, terrorism must be stopped. A life on Egyptian muslim victim of terrorism is just as valuable as that of a Kashmiri Hindu or a British Chsritian or an American Sikh.

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By: Al Mujahid http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/24/fareedpeat/comment-page-1/#comment-17381 Al Mujahid Mon, 25 Jul 2005 23:31:21 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1888#comment-17381 <p>Gujjubhai, If you were the US President would you consider invading Pakistan, removing the Musharraf government, occupying the nation ( Marshall plan maybe) and try to establish a liberal democracy ?</p> Gujjubhai, If you were the US President would you consider invading Pakistan, removing the Musharraf government, occupying the nation ( Marshall plan maybe) and try to establish a liberal democracy ?

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By: Gujjubhai http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/24/fareedpeat/comment-page-1/#comment-17368 Gujjubhai Mon, 25 Jul 2005 23:01:35 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1888#comment-17368 <p>Sorry, the bold text in the last post should be under quotes. It is directly taken from Musharraf's latest speech, available at the URL underneath.</p> Sorry, the bold text in the last post should be under quotes. It is directly taken from Musharraf’s latest speech, available at the URL underneath.

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By: Gujjubhai http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/24/fareedpeat/comment-page-1/#comment-17363 Gujjubhai Mon, 25 Jul 2005 22:57:01 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1888#comment-17363 <p><i>i could be lying, but i'd be an idiot since it is well known that fundamentalists can do well in certain localities (btw, appealing to the NWFP's total area seems bizarre, xinjiang is 1/4 of the area of china, but that doesn't mean that that is a relevant issue when speaking of the salience of islamic radicalism among the uighers of that region).</i></p> <p>Agian, you are comparing apples to oranges. The reason why NWFP is important is because it has a <em>popular</em> and <em>democratically elected</em> government of fundies. The size of NWFP is important because it gives that much more space to the fundies for training, arming and raising the footsoldiers of the global johad. Comparison with the Chinese is ridiculous because the Uighurs are <em>not</em> the government, dude. If they were, certainly the large sanctuary would then become important.</p> <p>And for those who are trying to dismiss NWFP as a sideshow, I can't decide if you are just living in utter denial or if it is just your wishful thinking. NWFP is the first ever stronghold for the MMA, which uses this power base to exert fundism throughout the rest of Pakistan. You can apologize for Pakistan all you want, or choose to turn a blind eye to it, but if you don't understand the significance of the MMA using NWFP to strengthen jihadism in Pakistan then I am afraid you have learnt nothing from history. Explain to me, for example, how the MMA would have become the terrorist-in-chief Mushy's coalition partner in Pakistan without grabbing power in NWFP, and gaining more and more support in the rest of the country? Is this really just about fundies doing well in "some local constituencies"? Expecially when these same constituencies were <em>not</em> controlled by fundies in the late eighties/early nineties? Let's hear the logic : I am all ears.</p> <p><i>i think we should be careful about mixing and matching the different issues here. </I></p> <p>Again, more wishful thinking on your part. Even if you forget the creation of that islamic cesspool called Taliban by the Pak government, you find the graduates of Pak terrorism schools all over the map. In fact, most acts of global terrorism throughout nineties have had Pakistani connections all over them. First WTC bomber Ramzi yousef was a Pakistani, and lived in Karachi. 9/11 attacks were financed through Pakistan. And now it turns out that not only the London bombings, but also the Egypt bombings of last week are a work of Pakistani jihadis.</p> <p>All of this is a result of deliberate Islamization of Pakistan under Zia starting in the eighties. Don't believe me? Here's excerpts from Mushy's latest speech to Pakistan, televised on July 21.</p> <p><b>Besides, dozens of the Mujahideen organizations surfaced who were openly recruiting and training the common citizens. Funds and donations were being collected to buy weapons. Jehadi literature had been published in this region for the last 25 years. It has all been happening in our society for the last 25 years and its all happening in this region. </b></p> <p>Full text: http://www.infopak.gov.pk/President_Addresses/Speech_Jul_21_2005.htm</p> <p>The sooner we acknowledge and appreciate this stark reality, the more helpful it will be. We cannot even begin to start thinking about solutions while keeping our heads firmly buried in the sand about how consumed the Pakistani society has become about its delusional notions of spreading jihad, creating ummah and unfurling the green falg of Islam in Kashmir, and consequently how much of a menace this one country has become to the rest of the civilized world.</p> i could be lying, but i’d be an idiot since it is well known that fundamentalists can do well in certain localities (btw, appealing to the NWFP’s total area seems bizarre, xinjiang is 1/4 of the area of china, but that doesn’t mean that that is a relevant issue when speaking of the salience of islamic radicalism among the uighers of that region).

Agian, you are comparing apples to oranges. The reason why NWFP is important is because it has a popular and democratically elected government of fundies. The size of NWFP is important because it gives that much more space to the fundies for training, arming and raising the footsoldiers of the global johad. Comparison with the Chinese is ridiculous because the Uighurs are not the government, dude. If they were, certainly the large sanctuary would then become important.

And for those who are trying to dismiss NWFP as a sideshow, I can’t decide if you are just living in utter denial or if it is just your wishful thinking. NWFP is the first ever stronghold for the MMA, which uses this power base to exert fundism throughout the rest of Pakistan. You can apologize for Pakistan all you want, or choose to turn a blind eye to it, but if you don’t understand the significance of the MMA using NWFP to strengthen jihadism in Pakistan then I am afraid you have learnt nothing from history. Explain to me, for example, how the MMA would have become the terrorist-in-chief Mushy’s coalition partner in Pakistan without grabbing power in NWFP, and gaining more and more support in the rest of the country? Is this really just about fundies doing well in “some local constituencies”? Expecially when these same constituencies were not controlled by fundies in the late eighties/early nineties? Let’s hear the logic : I am all ears.

i think we should be careful about mixing and matching the different issues here.

Again, more wishful thinking on your part. Even if you forget the creation of that islamic cesspool called Taliban by the Pak government, you find the graduates of Pak terrorism schools all over the map. In fact, most acts of global terrorism throughout nineties have had Pakistani connections all over them. First WTC bomber Ramzi yousef was a Pakistani, and lived in Karachi. 9/11 attacks were financed through Pakistan. And now it turns out that not only the London bombings, but also the Egypt bombings of last week are a work of Pakistani jihadis.

All of this is a result of deliberate Islamization of Pakistan under Zia starting in the eighties. Don’t believe me? Here’s excerpts from Mushy’s latest speech to Pakistan, televised on July 21.

Besides, dozens of the Mujahideen organizations surfaced who were openly recruiting and training the common citizens. Funds and donations were being collected to buy weapons. Jehadi literature had been published in this region for the last 25 years. It has all been happening in our society for the last 25 years and its all happening in this region.

Full text: http://www.infopak.gov.pk/President_Addresses/Speech_Jul_21_2005.htm

The sooner we acknowledge and appreciate this stark reality, the more helpful it will be. We cannot even begin to start thinking about solutions while keeping our heads firmly buried in the sand about how consumed the Pakistani society has become about its delusional notions of spreading jihad, creating ummah and unfurling the green falg of Islam in Kashmir, and consequently how much of a menace this one country has become to the rest of the civilized world.

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By: Gujjubhai http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/24/fareedpeat/comment-page-1/#comment-17356 Gujjubhai Mon, 25 Jul 2005 22:23:16 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1888#comment-17356 <p>MS, that's a very interesting question. BTW, India has world's second largest muslim population AFAIK. But coming back to teh question of why Indian muslims are not part of the global Salafist jihad, I just happened to read this recent article that talks about the same issue:</p> <p>http://www.indiareacts.com/archivedebates/nat2.asp?recno=1190</p> MS, that’s a very interesting question. BTW, India has world’s second largest muslim population AFAIK. But coming back to teh question of why Indian muslims are not part of the global Salafist jihad, I just happened to read this recent article that talks about the same issue:

http://www.indiareacts.com/archivedebates/nat2.asp?recno=1190

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By: Saurav http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/24/fareedpeat/comment-page-1/#comment-17344 Saurav Mon, 25 Jul 2005 21:18:01 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1888#comment-17344 <blockquote>But by and large Indian mulsims have mostly refrained from terrorist-related activities(and correct me if I am wrong). I wonder why this is (If I am not mistaken even the Indian PM noted this in one of his interviews). Not that I want them to get "recruited" but just curious as to what other people think about this.</blockquote> <p>My uninformed guess would be that if Indian Muslims were predisposed to engaging in some sort of misguided violent defense of the umma, they would probably do it lcoally or in Kashmir, rather than joining Al Qaeda and friends. It's an interesting question; thanks for posing it.</p> But by and large Indian mulsims have mostly refrained from terrorist-related activities(and correct me if I am wrong). I wonder why this is (If I am not mistaken even the Indian PM noted this in one of his interviews). Not that I want them to get “recruited” but just curious as to what other people think about this.

My uninformed guess would be that if Indian Muslims were predisposed to engaging in some sort of misguided violent defense of the umma, they would probably do it lcoally or in Kashmir, rather than joining Al Qaeda and friends. It’s an interesting question; thanks for posing it.

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By: ms http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/24/fareedpeat/comment-page-1/#comment-17337 ms Mon, 25 Jul 2005 21:02:27 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1888#comment-17337 <p>Wikipedia <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country">reports</a> that India has the third largest Muslim population in the world. But by and large Indian mulsims have mostly refrained from terrorist-related activities(and correct me if I am wrong). I wonder why this is (If I am not mistaken even the Indian PM noted this in one of his interviews). Not that I want them to get "recruited" but just curious as to what other people think about this.</p> Wikipedia reports that India has the third largest Muslim population in the world. But by and large Indian mulsims have mostly refrained from terrorist-related activities(and correct me if I am wrong). I wonder why this is (If I am not mistaken even the Indian PM noted this in one of his interviews). Not that I want them to get “recruited” but just curious as to what other people think about this.

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By: Che Guevara http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/24/fareedpeat/comment-page-1/#comment-17332 Che Guevara Mon, 25 Jul 2005 20:36:39 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1888#comment-17332 <p>Zakaria, I am afraid, has swallowed the big one from the neocons and supported the war. Now he is indulging in all kinds of verbal gymnastics, to explain his position. Setting aside his intellect (which is pretty good) he tries to play both ways, corporate poster boy and objective journalist. And ends up looking more and more as a political transvestite...</p> Zakaria, I am afraid, has swallowed the big one from the neocons and supported the war. Now he is indulging in all kinds of verbal gymnastics, to explain his position. Setting aside his intellect (which is pretty good) he tries to play both ways, corporate poster boy and objective journalist. And ends up looking more and more as a political transvestite…

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