Comments on: Rashomon on the tube (updated again) http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/23/rashomon_on_the/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Jennifer Fang http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/23/rashomon_on_the/comment-page-2/#comment-17498 Jennifer Fang Tue, 26 Jul 2005 16:16:02 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1885#comment-17498 <p>even if he was being watched, what criteria warranted that suspicion? it seems like his ties to any terrorist organization were non-existent at best -- so what was the rationale for considering him a valid suspect when he emerged from the building?</p> even if he was being watched, what criteria warranted that suspicion? it seems like his ties to any terrorist organization were non-existent at best — so what was the rationale for considering him a valid suspect when he emerged from the building?

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By: Matt http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/23/rashomon_on_the/comment-page-2/#comment-17425 Matt Tue, 26 Jul 2005 03:28:24 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1885#comment-17425 <p>I ‘m afraid I must I had to discontinue reading midway, you seem to be insistent on making a mockery of it all. Tell me have you ever involved in physically restraining a man, just an average man not some heaven seeking desperate idiot with souveniers strapped across. I’m certain you have not. Because if you had, you wouldn’t have cried a river here. The officers followed orders. Period .so please hold these brazil-jacket-police theories. It seems it was an intelligence failure. Yes tragic and unpardonable, and that shall be dealt with in due course. show some sense, fair and wise.we are a fair mix but we do not indulge in such petty pastime to feel good about ourselves, so even if the bombers belong to a particular community we show sense to identify the cohorts in their community, but them , like the sentiments here, issued a statement of concern even before the unfortunate victim was identified. Such pity! Ask us if we bother, No!! We bury deep and do not blog nuisaance.</p> I ‘m afraid I must I had to discontinue reading midway, you seem to be insistent on making a mockery of it all. Tell me have you ever involved in physically restraining a man, just an average man not some heaven seeking desperate idiot with souveniers strapped across. I’m certain you have not. Because if you had, you wouldn’t have cried a river here. The officers followed orders. Period .so please hold these brazil-jacket-police theories. It seems it was an intelligence failure. Yes tragic and unpardonable, and that shall be dealt with in due course. show some sense, fair and wise.we are a fair mix but we do not indulge in such petty pastime to feel good about ourselves, so even if the bombers belong to a particular community we show sense to identify the cohorts in their community, but them , like the sentiments here, issued a statement of concern even before the unfortunate victim was identified. Such pity! Ask us if we bother, No!! We bury deep and do not blog nuisaance.

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By: Some ol'Guy http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/23/rashomon_on_the/comment-page-2/#comment-17366 Some ol'Guy Mon, 25 Jul 2005 22:58:57 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1885#comment-17366 <p>ranted at length about this on my blog:</p> <p>http://safdarjungmaaadical.blogspot.com/</p> <p>this is completely, completely crazy.</p> ranted at length about this on my blog:

http://safdarjungmaaadical.blogspot.com/

this is completely, completely crazy.

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By: Y V Nanda Kishore http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/23/rashomon_on_the/comment-page-2/#comment-17276 Y V Nanda Kishore Mon, 25 Jul 2005 08:35:39 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1885#comment-17276 <p>Yes, the London police should be given the benefit of doubt as to their motives (no reason to suspect foul play), but it is inept handling of the situation at best. However, had this been the Indian police (or a 'third world' country) or paramilitary, there would have been a hue and cry.</p> <p>Anyway, it's funny how many times I was picked up for a 'random' search when I started flying on a regular basis in the US. It stopped after a while (presumably the system does something!), but now that I started flying internationally, I get screened again. And at Sydney airport (on my way to Melbourne), I'm screened twice everytime I get in. Of course, they're all just doing their jobs. My sense of dignity can go to hell.</p> Yes, the London police should be given the benefit of doubt as to their motives (no reason to suspect foul play), but it is inept handling of the situation at best. However, had this been the Indian police (or a ‘third world’ country) or paramilitary, there would have been a hue and cry.

Anyway, it’s funny how many times I was picked up for a ‘random’ search when I started flying on a regular basis in the US. It stopped after a while (presumably the system does something!), but now that I started flying internationally, I get screened again. And at Sydney airport (on my way to Melbourne), I’m screened twice everytime I get in. Of course, they’re all just doing their jobs. My sense of dignity can go to hell.

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By: Vikram http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/23/rashomon_on_the/comment-page-2/#comment-17251 Vikram Mon, 25 Jul 2005 03:36:13 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1885#comment-17251 <p>Looks like the police are going to be faced with a lawsuit as in this <a href="http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/articles/1714882.html">case of mistaken identityt</a></p> Looks like the police are going to be faced with a lawsuit as in this case of mistaken identityt

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By: Saurav http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/23/rashomon_on_the/comment-page-2/#comment-17231 Saurav Sun, 24 Jul 2005 23:11:43 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1885#comment-17231 <p>Here's some more on the bag checks, from a Sepia Mutiny-appropriate Brown perspective :)</p> <blockquote>While Police Commissioner Ray Kelly vowed there would be no selective enforcement or racial profiling, some South Asian New Yorkers said that they felt singled out.</blockquote> <p>Not a lot of detail, but it's all I could find. Perhaps some of the ethnic press will cover it in detail this week.</p> <p>On a personal level, I ventured into the city for the first time last night. Granted, it was not rush hour (between 11 p.m. and 2 a.m. on a Saturday night :), but I took 3 subways, encountered no searches or searching or police presence. This is brilliant, because if someone actually wanted to blow up something, all they would have to do is get on a train at an hour like that and then ride the trains (free transfers, my friends) for some hours, and then detonate. Just one of the many holes that I'm coming to learn are part of this fairly ineffective system. I'm still not sure whether it's helpful or not, but it's clearly not sufficient.</p> <p>I'm so glad <a href="http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/139687p-123976c.html">Wyoming was getting about seven times more money per capita than New York</a> in 2003 for counterterrorism funding.</p> <p>An excerpt:</p> <blockquote>Yet of the $900 million New York City has determined it needs to counter terrorism, it has received only $84 million from the federal government so far. Officials expect to get $75 million more in the next round of funding. The Fire Department, still staggering from its losses on Sept. 11, has sought $331 million in homeland security funding. It has been promised less than $36 million. The NYPD has determined it needs $261 million. It has received only $60 million.</blockquote> Here’s some more on the bag checks, from a Sepia Mutiny-appropriate Brown perspective :)

While Police Commissioner Ray Kelly vowed there would be no selective enforcement or racial profiling, some South Asian New Yorkers said that they felt singled out.

Not a lot of detail, but it’s all I could find. Perhaps some of the ethnic press will cover it in detail this week.

On a personal level, I ventured into the city for the first time last night. Granted, it was not rush hour (between 11 p.m. and 2 a.m. on a Saturday night :) , but I took 3 subways, encountered no searches or searching or police presence. This is brilliant, because if someone actually wanted to blow up something, all they would have to do is get on a train at an hour like that and then ride the trains (free transfers, my friends) for some hours, and then detonate. Just one of the many holes that I’m coming to learn are part of this fairly ineffective system. I’m still not sure whether it’s helpful or not, but it’s clearly not sufficient.

I’m so glad Wyoming was getting about seven times more money per capita than New York in 2003 for counterterrorism funding.

An excerpt:

Yet of the $900 million New York City has determined it needs to counter terrorism, it has received only $84 million from the federal government so far. Officials expect to get $75 million more in the next round of funding. The Fire Department, still staggering from its losses on Sept. 11, has sought $331 million in homeland security funding. It has been promised less than $36 million. The NYPD has determined it needs $261 million. It has received only $60 million.
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By: cicatrix http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/23/rashomon_on_the/comment-page-2/#comment-17218 cicatrix Sun, 24 Jul 2005 21:54:16 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1885#comment-17218 <p>Er, and about those NYPD bag-checks? The Capt. Eric Adams, the head of 100 Blacks in Law Enforcement, isn't exactly bolstering <a href="http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/330999p-282846c.html">public trust.</a></p> <blockquote>Extracting items from a black backpack at a Brooklyn news conference, Adams said officers' training has left them unprepared to identify anything other than the simplest type of explosive device or chemical.</blockquote> Er, and about those NYPD bag-checks? The Capt. Eric Adams, the head of 100 Blacks in Law Enforcement, isn’t exactly bolstering public trust.

Extracting items from a black backpack at a Brooklyn news conference, Adams said officers’ training has left them unprepared to identify anything other than the simplest type of explosive device or chemical.
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By: cicatrix http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/23/rashomon_on_the/comment-page-2/#comment-17214 cicatrix Sun, 24 Jul 2005 21:36:42 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1885#comment-17214 <p>An <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/comment/story/0,16141,1535176,00.html">interesting</a> article in The Guardian today. Discusses various methodologies in combatting terrorism.</p> <blockquote>According to former FBI agent Mike German, who worked against right-wing terrorist gangs in America and later on an Islamist case, there are many more similarities than differences between the way Muslim suicide bombers and 'ordinary' terrorists operate and, hence, between effective ways of defeating them.</blockquote> <p>I thought that was obvious, and assumed that that Homeland Security was taking advantage of people like this, at least until those Middle-East specialists finally buffed up their language skills, or recruited Iraqi-americans willing to infiltrate a cell. But, just when you couldn't possibly think less of the Bush administration:</p> <blockquote>German not only penetrated neo-Nazi groups, he also gathered evidence of sufficient quality to take them to court and send them to prison. Yet after 9/11, he and his colleagues with anti-terrorist experience found themselves derided as mere 'gumshoes', unsuitable for use in the new 'war on terror'. In his view, America made a grave error in rejecting the traditional law-enforcement model in favour of this more abstract concept and its associated methods, such as internment and torture at Bagram and Guantanamo Bay, which has, just about everyone but Bush and Donald Rumsfeld now accept, produced very little hard, 'actionable' intelligence.</blockquote> <p>The article goes on to discuss MI5 and MI6 successfully thwarting the IRA, why investigations into Islamist extremism were dropped in 1994,, and whether the present British anti-terror policies will resemble those in America.</p> An interesting article in The Guardian today. Discusses various methodologies in combatting terrorism.

According to former FBI agent Mike German, who worked against right-wing terrorist gangs in America and later on an Islamist case, there are many more similarities than differences between the way Muslim suicide bombers and ‘ordinary’ terrorists operate and, hence, between effective ways of defeating them.

I thought that was obvious, and assumed that that Homeland Security was taking advantage of people like this, at least until those Middle-East specialists finally buffed up their language skills, or recruited Iraqi-americans willing to infiltrate a cell. But, just when you couldn’t possibly think less of the Bush administration:

German not only penetrated neo-Nazi groups, he also gathered evidence of sufficient quality to take them to court and send them to prison. Yet after 9/11, he and his colleagues with anti-terrorist experience found themselves derided as mere ‘gumshoes’, unsuitable for use in the new ‘war on terror’. In his view, America made a grave error in rejecting the traditional law-enforcement model in favour of this more abstract concept and its associated methods, such as internment and torture at Bagram and Guantanamo Bay, which has, just about everyone but Bush and Donald Rumsfeld now accept, produced very little hard, ‘actionable’ intelligence.

The article goes on to discuss MI5 and MI6 successfully thwarting the IRA, why investigations into Islamist extremism were dropped in 1994,, and whether the present British anti-terror policies will resemble those in America.

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By: Saheli http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/23/rashomon_on_the/comment-page-2/#comment-17213 Saheli Sun, 24 Jul 2005 21:31:51 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1885#comment-17213 <p>Damn. If they spelled it out that clearly, then it really is the fault of of the intelligence people and the higher ups. Now I feel very sorry for the cop who did the deed. He's probably going to have nightmares for the rest of his life. . .</p> <p>So much the Queen's Intelligence Service being the best in the world. . .</p> Damn. If they spelled it out that clearly, then it really is the fault of of the intelligence people and the higher ups. Now I feel very sorry for the cop who did the deed. He’s probably going to have nightmares for the rest of his life. . .

So much the Queen’s Intelligence Service being the best in the world. . .

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By: Manish Vij http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/23/rashomon_on_the/comment-page-2/#comment-17208 Manish Vij Sun, 24 Jul 2005 19:52:11 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1885#comment-17208 <blockquote>did he just coincidentally come out of a place they were watching?</blockquote> <p>From the coverage so far, yes. He came out of an apartment complex they were watching.</p> <blockquote>What type of gun was it</blockquote> <p>Semiautomatic handgun with low velocity rounds so bystanders aren't endangered. The Kratos protocol was to shoot in the head multiple times so there's no reflex action that detonates the bomb. Of course, there are still spinal reflexes and dead man's triggers, so it wouldn't work in all cases.</p> <blockquote>Do you know how quickly you can get off that many bullets?</blockquote> <p>In about 2-2.5 seconds.</p> did he just coincidentally come out of a place they were watching?

From the coverage so far, yes. He came out of an apartment complex they were watching.

What type of gun was it

Semiautomatic handgun with low velocity rounds so bystanders aren’t endangered. The Kratos protocol was to shoot in the head multiple times so there’s no reflex action that detonates the bomb. Of course, there are still spinal reflexes and dead man’s triggers, so it wouldn’t work in all cases.

Do you know how quickly you can get off that many bullets?

In about 2-2.5 seconds.

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